Scottish Terrier and RFM troubles

[noblemacaw]

I have had Mercedes my Scottish Terrier since she was a puppy. She turned 5 years old this past September. Her personality is really nice. She is more independent than my Ragdoll cat and has been though obedience training as a puppy and has been though intermediate obedience training also. Personally the Scottish Terrier would not be my first choice with the type of dog I would have but I basically rescued her and I will say she is not your typical Scott. She is not a barker nor is she aggressive and never ever has she ever snapped or growled at anyone. She is sensitive to correction which I learned early on. I have never had a dog like my Mercedes and I love her.

Since Valentino is a flighted parrot and very confident he will fly to where he wants to be. He wants to go to his tree he flies to it. If he wants to go to his cage, he flies to it, if he wants to be with me he flies to me. Since Valentino flies Mercedes will jump up and try to "catch" him as he is flying. There have been several too close calls for me to be comfortable with so when I work with Valentino Mercedes is kenneled.

I have tried with not very good results with training Mercedes not to go after my bird but I believe this wanting to snatch Valentino out of the air is hard wired in her breed and I cannot force her to ignore her instinct. Never ever would I ever trust my dog close to my bird for any reason even before she began this behavior.

Unfortunately Mercedes is kenneled more now than she ever had to be. This is very sad but I cannot have her out when I have the parrot out. I am working with Valentino's training and the dog has to be in kennel every time throughout Valentino's training. This division of splitting my time between the two has created a very unhappy dog.

I would like to have Mercedes out when we are all relaxing watching TV. I have Valentino on me for cuddle mommy time and Mercedes will be on her dog bed. At 9pm Valentino is put back in cage until about 10:30 pm when I come back down to hand feed him and put him to bed. For teh hour and half Mercedes joins me in my bedroom and lies with me on the bed and we watch TV (she has a crush on Bear the Belgian Malinois in Person of Interest show. It's really cute how she always watches the scenes he is in) so Mercedes does get one on one time with me in the evenings.

Tonight I was at my wits ends and very very frustrated with Mercedes going after Valentino. I cannot have this. I don't trust her any longer and now her life is so different because of her natural instinct with the want to get after Valentino. Lupe happened to be downstairs watching TV with us when it happened and I didn't even see it coming. Lupe actually yelled at Mercedes and gave her a little slap on the hinny which Lupe NEVER DOES. Lupe has never raised her voice to that dog and Lupe is very attached to Mercedes. I am the one that does all the training and is the "hard ass" kinda gal.

While I was spending my alone time with Mercedes I noticed she is depressed withdrawn and has seemed to go inside herself. This worries me as I don't want her spirit broken.

I need to make this work. If I can't I will need to find a home for either the parrot or the dog. I don't want to have to make that decision but I will make it to protect them both. It is obvious they are not compatible and I cannot force a dog to accept the parrot when it is in her the need to kill him. My dog seems so unhappy now. My heart breaks for her.

 

[goalerjones]

You could try using a muzzle. She can still eat and drink using it but wont be able to bite.

 

[JerseyWendy]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Yes, Scotties have a VERY HIGH prey drive, unfortunately, and all the training in the world isn't going to take Mercedes instinct away. So she has a crush on Bear, yes? Well, Bear is one GORGEOUS Belgian Malinois, I've got a crush myself.

I have an idea, don't know whether it will work or not, but it may be worth a shot. Instead of crating Mercedes when Valentino is out and about, attach a collar and short lead to Mercedes, and attach the lead to yourself (on a belt loop, for example). This means Mercedes will be going EVERYWHERE with you, and she is always close enough where you can correct unwanted behavior (lunging at Valentino). When Valentino flies to you, and Mercedes lunges, jumps, attempts to snatch him up, do a quick, but firm correction (quick tug at the collar via lead) and make her sit. You have to make sure she is focused on YOU, NOT on Valentino. It is VERY important that Mercedes focus on YOU alone. Scotties are quite smart, and I think she will learn that going after Valentino is NEVER acceptable. It is also important that YOU relax during this time. If we are tense, our dogs pick up on that and will become tense as well. Don't keep the lead too short. There should be a little loop, NO tension. REWARD Mercedes for good behavior. Rewards don't always mean treats. A pat on the head or a simple "good girl" are enough.

You may have to practice this excersise for a LONG time before Mercedes gets it. If she falls back and lunges, don't crate her, just re-attach her to yourself and do more excercises with her. Also make sure Mercedes gets a lot of excercise to wear her out a bit.

 

[henpecked]

Unpopular as it may be, shock collars work wonders. You don't have to turn it up to where it hurts them for it to be effective. Once they've been shocked just a hint will be enough to get their attention. I stopped our outside guard dog from killing chickens and running out the open gate. Don't even have to close the gate anymore and she won't "play" with the chickens anymore. We use it on our hunting dogs who like to "range" too far, they act like they can't hear you calling. Now days you just put it on them and their hearing improves 100%.

 

[JerseyWendy]

You're 100% right about the shock collars, Richard! My Ziva actually wears one. She gave me no choice, really. She is SUCH a sweet and lovable dog, but as soon as someone walks in the door, she has absolutely NO self control. In fact, I just ordered a new one for her, as the "el cheapo" I bought was a piece of garbage. Those things work GREAT - and they are NOT cruel in any way, shape or form.

 

[noblemacaw]

I appreciate your responses. Last night I was very frustrated and upset with my situation.

Wendy, I really like your suggestion. Thank you so much for taking the time to post your suggestion for me. I can tell you really know dogs and you are correct Mercedes prey drive is very high and I need to figure a way for her to accept Valentino as a family member and not as prey. If I can get her to think of Valentino as a family member she will protect him with her life. I might not ever be able to do that but I am going to try your suggestion with working with her in the manner you suggested. I was almost in tears with the thought of having to rehome her. I do not want to do that as I am too attached. When I had ovarian cancer the hospital let Lupe bring her in to visit me. She also brought in Diego (two separate times) my Illiger's macaw to visit me. Both Mercedes and Diego missed me too much and the visit was good for both of us. I have too much history with Mercedes to have to rehome her. I am also very committed to Valentino with providing him a safe place to live. Her crush on Bear is so adorable. I make sure she is always with me when I watch Person of Interest. Is your Ziva's last name David? LOL. I love NCIS too.

The shock collar idea would never fly with Lupe. I would be the one that would be open to trying it but Lupe, I know she would not be happy with that at all. I think she is even more attached to Mercedes than I am so I can say the thought of using t shock collar will be repugnant to her. As much as I would like to try the shock collar idea I do not think I can sell the idea with Lupe. I also would want to gain some training with the equipment with someone who knows how to use it because I have never used one before.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Oh my gosh...I'm sitting here in tears now. You had ovarian cancer? I am utterly speechless, seriously! I wish for you that it NEVER EVER comes back! HUGS HUGS HUGS!!!!

And no need to EVER thank me. Seriously. I've had dogs all my life, all sorts, but all were HUGE, lol. Ziva is my FIRST (and last) girl. As a matter of fact, my current 2 pooches will probably be my last, as I can not go through the good-byes anymore. Ziva is also the smallest dog I've had. She's an American Bulldog Pit Mix (her papers say she's 100% American Bulldog, however, 5 generations ago a black pit was introduced for different color, and she looks IDENTICAL to a pit bull). She weighs 75 pounds, and like I said, she's our smallest ever.

I LOVE training dogs, I really do. I helped train my neighbors Scottie, and he was a toughy because he was 1. VERY headstrong, 2. VERY mistrusting of me in the beginning and 3. VERY prey driven (which included nipping at children's ankles).

The method I suggested to you worked for my neighbor. It didn't happen overnight, it took a few months of CONSTANT training, but when it finally clicked, it was smooth sailing.

I have resorted to the shock collar with Ziva ONLY as a last resort, and it truly works wonders. BUT, if Lupe is opposed, and you and Lupe commit together, you WILL be able to make this work. NO doubt in my mind.

 

[noblemacaw]

I was very lucky because they caught my cancer early enough. I didn't need the ishy chemo or radiation. So far all is good. I am five years cancer free at this time. Thank you so much for the hugs. *hugs back*

Lucky for us Mercedes is a very nice Scotty. She can be stubborn but will still listen to use. I would never have her off leash though because she will run off to get the rabbits and squirrels around here and will not listen to come. Mercedes is also very sensitive. I never had a dog that was so sensitive to correction. I had to adjust my training because of this. Positive reinforcement works the best for her. Negative correction even gently used is taken to heart and I don't like how she reacts to it. I have taken to training Mercedes like I train parrots which is positive reinforcement only. Both Valentino and Mercedes are even sensitive to my facial expressions. Both animals are extremely intelligent. Mercedes prey drive seems to be off the charts when outside and she sees a rabbit or squirrel. I need to help her realize she does not need it inside the house with Valentino. She also has never snapped or chased anyone with that infamous nipping heels thing. If anything she will jump up and hit her front paws on the back of knees if we have been separated for several hours which unbalances me a little bit but that is it with bad manners. She is between 19 and 20 pounds. I cannot carry her because her weight sets off my asthma.

I sometimes think Mercedes is jealous of Valentino especially during cuddle momma time. If Valentino grabs me too hard and I am working with him "OWW" and the command "Gentle" she gets worked up also. Valentino has no interest in her and he is not afraid of her.

 

[JerseyWendy]

YAY for being cancer free for 5 years!!!!!!! I am so glad it was caught early - it makes ALL the difference in the world.

Once Mercedes learns there is nothing to "hunt" in the house, and that Valentino is a family member, she will no longer be jealous of him. How does she react when you and Lupe cuddle? Is she jealous then?

I'm only asking because my (our) Ziva can't STAND it if anybody hugs me. She will jump, bark, to an excess. (hence the collar) NOBODY can come into my house without her completely flipping out, and she DOES use her teeth. Not to bite...she's just VERY mouthy.

She is GREAT around the birds though. When I have cuddle sessions with the birds, and she's on the couch, she hops right off, respecting that it now THEIR time to get their cuddles. That didn't happen naturally though, I had to teach her.

Just remember, don't get discouraged, try not to be tense. You have a VERY emotionally intuned dog (just as you describe when you say how she reacts to your facial expressions alone). They are SO very smart. Be persistent, PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE...and keep her at your heels with the short lead to do necessary corrections if/when necessary. I have a feeling she will pick up on it rather quickly.

IF you feel you are getting tense, take a time out. I know how that sounds....but I mean it. Collect yourself and start over. Luckily our pooches are VERY forgiving.

 

[noblemacaw]

Mercedes has no problems with Lupe and I cuddling. She just gets right in on the mix. There is no jealously because she loves us both. I think she feels the need to protect me from Valentino. My RFM is only 6 months old so we are in training with what is acceptable to do to me and what is not. He can get a bit beaky at times and use too much pressure. The pinching he does he needs to also learn pressure and I would rather he not do it at all. Valentino is smart and has learned very quickly what the word gentle means. Consistency always works well with my training in any animal. They really do thrive from it being creatures of habit.

My goal if I can achieve it is to have Mercedes out with us during the evenings without her freaking out with Valentino's flying from me to his tree and from tree to me. During our cuddle times I am not in training mode and this is the time for all to relax and enjoy the evening. I don't think this could be achieved but it would be the cherry on top if I could have Mercedes lying with me ON THE COUCH while I have Valentino with me. That one might be a lot to ask for though.

I have to remember Valentino has only been with us two months.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

If I was in your place I would try very hard to convince lupe to be ok with the shock collar. Explain in detail about how you will be using it and that it will do wonders. It seems selfish that she would rather risk the training to not work and end up having to rehome Mercedes. And we all know you won't rehome valintino.

 

[JerseyWendy]

My goal if I can achieve it is to have Mercedes out with us during the evenings without her freaking out with Valentino's flying from me to his tree and from tree to me. During our cuddle times I am not in training mode and this is the time for all to relax and enjoy the evening. I don't think this could be achieved but it would be the cherry on top if I could have Mercedes lying with me ON THE COUCH while I have Valentino with me. That one might be a lot to ask for though.
.

Guess what?

ANY reasonable goal you set CAN be achieved. And you certainly haven't set an unachievable one.

You GO for it! It WILL work. Perserverance WILL pay off.

 

[goalerjones]

Another possible fix is a bed with a leash attached. We use this setup for our shepherd so he doesnt push others around in mixed company. You simply designate an area for the dogs bed, then attach a leash to a solid object. When the bird is out the dog goes on the leash. Or have your spouse put a leash on the dog whenever the bird is out.