Recall? Taking a step back

[SilverSage]

Flick and I started recall training today, or at least we attempted to. However, as I began working with her on this it became clear to me I had a problem - I had allowed my precious conure to follow in her Pionus family's footsteps, and become way too timid for her own good.

She has no fear of people and when she is in or on the cage she is a bundle of confidence. She travels on our shoulders all the time, and loves to hang out there while we work. However I realized today that in any but those situations, she is ill at ease. I put her on the table, she flies to me. I put her on the couch, she flies to me. I put her on the desk, she flies to me. On the surface that would be cool, but from her body language I believe it is a fear response, not one of affection.

So for the last half an hour, Flick has been sitting on the top shelf of my desk, the highest place in the room, and foraging for her favorite treats up there. I am only a couple of feet away, and she seems to have calmed. I just feel like fear is not a good basis for recall, or any other kind of training, and I want her to get back the confidence I know is in there.

Yet another problem I believe originated with the breeder and was not recognized by myself, therefore I did not address it. It's a learning experience! I am glad that she and I have many years to grow in our relationship.

 

[BirdyMomma]

I'm interested to know how you will ameliorate this situation. I too have an extremely devoted bird, who is VERY VERY VERY smart, and amenable to training but she is obsessed with being attached to me. I've always felt that it was great for recall, cause she will flap (wings growing in) to me 100 out of 100 times, but I could never get her to flap back to her perch AND once she gets on my shoulder, it's a full on BRAWL to get her off. When I do get her to perch up, I can tell that no matter what behavior we are working on, she is merely placating me, and all she really wants is to get back on my shoulder, on my chest, in my hair.
Interested in how you progress.

 

[SilverSage]

I will definitely keep you updated. Part of it for me thus far has been watching her body language and seeing that she was not just behaving like she wanted attention, which she often does, but she had the body language of fear. Also, she generally will step up off of my shoulder for a treat, but as soon as I was getting her down in the office (aka, not the part of the house her cage is in) she tucked all her feathers in tight, stood way up tall and then DUCKED! So suddenly, and then way up tall again, looking around frantically. I feel that I have failed her as I focused on the more obvious issues of my other two birds, I have not allowed her time and opportunity to build her confidence. I also don't really care to teach her to fly back to her perch. At some point we may practice this, but at the moment I am training for safety. To me this is a beginning step to getting her back should she ever escape, as well as respecting her intellect and letting her reach her full training potential. Someday I would LOVE to free fly her, but I am trying to have her mental health, not a specific behavior as my goal.

 

[BirdyMomma]

Are you positive that the body language you are concerned with is FEAR, and not just her indicating where she wants to go? Loki will get sleek, tight feathers, wings out, and start side to side pacing, but it's not fear. It's the physical manifestation of her urge to get to me. It's not fear, it's a compulsion, with my bird.

 

[SilverSage]

Yes I am confident it is a fear response. It is hard to describe exactly the difference in posture and movement between fear, eagerness, interest, but this particular reaction is fear or at the very least apprehension. I have owned birds since childhood and while I am still getting to know Flick, her body language is clear. Thank you though, confusing those two reactions could have complicated things .


What are you doing to help your bird leave your shoulder willingly?

 

[MikeyTN]

IF you go into a room she is unfamiliarized with, of course she would freak and wanting to be back on you. Have her on you and allow her to get used to the room before doing any recall training. It will put them at ease once they're in a familiar area. To go into a complete separate room where they don't usually go into is a good area to get a one on one personal time with a new bird that needs bonding. How long have you had Flick? And how old is Flick?

 

[SilverSage]

Flick spends several hours a week in the office, which is where we were. She often will spend hours on my husband's shoulders while he writes papers, etc, and she loves to read this forum with me!

After thinking things over from yesterday I thought more about her usual behavior and if I could be missing something, so today we tried things in the livingroom. Flick's cage is in the dining room, but used to be in the livingroom, and she is rarely confined to her cage. In the livingroom if I set her down she seems ok as long as I don't walk away, but she doesn't explore she just sits. I didn't really notice it before because usually she is on our shoulders if she is not on/by the cages. I will use her instinct to fly to me to "teach" the behavior to start with, but I have decided she needs more "play time" on the floor, etc, and less time just hanging out on my shoulder or on a cage.

I have had Flick since October, and her age is unknown. The breeder was retiring and wanted to sell all her GCCs. She put them all in one cage and "worked with" two at a time to get them tame enough to sell. She handfed her bigger birds and I thought she had handfed the GCCs but later found out she had not, and learned more about some of her beliefs, such as teaching birds that no matter what they do, they cannot win (have you heard of the concept of perching a bird? Teaching them they cannot escape being touched no matter what they do so they just give up?) Anyway, she didn't band any of them, and they are all the same color. When I got there she still had over 30 of them, but only one tame one. Flick could be one of this year's babies, or she could be a former breeder and sadly I don't know which.

 

[MonicaMc]

I think it's better to work with birds where they feel most comfortable, rather than taking them to unfamiliar areas and trying to work with them there. This includes new birds. If you take a bird to a new area, you may need to give the bird 30 minutes or more to become accustomed to the area and not be agitated or 'on edge'.


As far as what the breeder did, that's known as "dominance" or "flooding" techniques. Very popular, but not recommended. Apparently even worse in the horse community.

 

[SilverSage]

Flick was very familiar with the office, as I said, she sometimes would spend hours there at a time, and she accompanied us daily into every room of the house.

Anyway, a quick update, we worked with Flick on gaining confidence to explore her surroundings and feel secure even if she is not physically touching one of us, and have seen great results. We used a lot of treats and basically bribed her into hanging out farther and farther away, stuck treats in weird places for her to find, etc. She is doing much better and we are working on recall training again, but my bird is a new bird. When I wrote the original post here, she was a rather nippy, cranky bird, though she always wanted to be with us. We were already working to teach her she had the CHOICE to be our friend or not, unlike what she had previously learned, and it seems that that teaching along with the confidence building did what we had hoped. She is now a snuggly, trusting, sweet, confident bird who loves to go with me on errands and walks, etc. I have not been bitten in months! Well, not by her anyway