Questions about 5 months YCA

[Coltiefication]

Hi, parrot people!

I’m on day 3 with this gorgeous fellow and I have some questions I hope some of you can answer.

I was told that he’s a 5 month old yellow crowned Amazon male (amazona ochrocaphala), DNA tested and registered, which was important to me. When we picked him up they told me that they forgot the envelope with his papers at home so they will send them to me. I have all of their info so I hope I’m not being naive in believing them.

He looks very healthy and have been fed a pellet diet with fresh fruits and vegetables and occasional nuts and seeds.

You can see his markings, he’s got the yellow crown, but it has a few red spots in it, which I haven’t seen on Amazons before, it this normal? He also has a red ring around the yellow in his eyes, very cool.
If I have understood correctly he’s not one of the hot three?

He’s a pretty good flyer and he loves landing on our heads. Is this something we should want to change or is it fine for him to keep doing that?

We have had some issues in a couple cases where we have had to take something from him that he found interesting, resulting in very painful bleed bites. We have tried a «do you want this instead» game, but he is always extremely set in his ways. Any tips on these kinds of situations? Besides that he’s just a really lovely guy as long as we read and respect his very obvious body language.

The previous owners did force him to step up and they also corrected his bites by holding his beak. We won’t be forcing him and we will say NO, turn around and ignore him when he bites too hard.

I have read about the Amazon body language, but I don’t find that he’s doing much of anything on the list yet, maybe because he’s a baby?

I will start clicker training him to step up and to land on our hands. Now he steps up occasionally. He is so far very happy staying on his cage and only occasionally seeking us out.

He’s sleeping a full 12+ hours, should I wait until he calls us to start the day for him or should I wake him after 12 hours? He spends most of the day (except for the two days I work for 6 hours) with and open cage and lots of toys to destroy.

Thank you so much for your replies.
Best wishes from Meeko and Jen

 

[texsize]

He’s a sweetheart.

I would suggest caution with him on your shoulder so soon.
You need a really strong trust bond before allowing that or be willing to accept painful and even disfiguring injuries

Landing on the head should be discouraged.
What if you have guests over, you might find it cute but they might have a different opinion

 

[SailBoat]

I certainly hope that you receive the documentation really soon!! I hope that you kept back some part of the purchase payment to assure they send the document set!

No, you do not have one of the Big Hot Three Amazons! But that does not mean that the other members of the family Amazon do not have like issues, just not as bad!

Sleep is a touchy subject, each individual needs to decide whether to follow the normal day created by the Sun, which today was near 15 hours of darkness for us here in the great white North or follow the artificial 12 hour day. I have one of the leaders of the Big Hot Three Amazons and we choose to follow the normal Sun defined day. We find that normally, it helps him to limit the Hormonal Season to start in very late December, very early January and end in February. When we tried the 12 sleep schedule he would start far too early and end far too late. You have a baby and are several years from Full-on Hormonal Season! If you choose to follow the day as defined by the Sun you would choose to let him define when he is ready to come out (get-up).

Red is a very interesting color on Amazons as it is commonly seen as a "Flash" color, meaning they use the color to display. That said, your baby Amazon is not yet in his Adult coloration and that maybe little more than part of his baby colorations or a sign of things to come!

He is just beginning to develop his personality and the Hardwired self will be be setting in place over the next couple of years. Keep reread that Thread regarding Amazon Body Language as it is very important that you know those Hardwired body language signs as he will expect you to know them.

As covered by my good friend above. It is best to have an Amazon land on your extended arm /hand. From an Amazon view-point, you are a head on a tree that can move its limbs. Hence, it is normal for them to connect with your face /head first.

Enjoy!

 

[Coltiefication]

He’s a sweetheart.

I would suggest caution with him on your shoulder so soon.
You need a really strong trust bond before allowing that or be willing to accept painful and even disfiguring injuries

Landing on the head should be discouraged.
What if you have guests over, you might find it cute but they might have a different opinion

Thank you so much for your reply.
We don’t enjoy it at all, but we have been more or less choice less. We have been practicing landing on the arm instead today and it’s gotten much better, but we’re not always able to stop him. In the beginning he bit us when we tried taking him down, but he’s more or less okay with us moving him now, with a few exceptions.
He’s also going to the shoulder by himself and often been correcting us when we have tried to stop him.
This too has gotten better and it’s easier to correct unwanted behaviour, but he’s still acting like a dick every time we stop him from doing something he wants, and quite honestly, he’s scary as f sometimes.
Still a cutie though, and today we had a lovely playtime where he lay on his back with a toy in my lap (I don’t touch his body at all).

 

[Coltiefication]

I certainly hope that you receive the documentation really soon!! I hope that you kept back some part of the purchase payment to assure they send the document set!

No, you do not have one of the Big Hot Three Amazons! But that does not mean that the other members of the family Amazon do not have like issues, just not as bad!

Sleep is a touchy subject, each individual needs to decide whether to follow the normal day created by the Sun, which today was near 15 hours of darkness for us here in the great white North or follow the artificial 12 hour day. I have one of the leaders of the Big Hot Three Amazons and we choose to follow the normal Sun defined day. We find that normally, it helps him to limit the Hormonal Season to start in very late December, very early January and end in February. When we tried the 12 sleep schedule he would start far too early and end far too late. You have a baby and are several years from Full-on Hormonal Season! If you choose to follow the day as defined by the Sun you would choose to let him define when he is ready to come out (get-up).

Red is a very interesting color on Amazons as it is commonly seen as a "Flash" color, meaning they use the color to display. That said, your baby Amazon is not yet in his Adult coloration and that maybe little more than part of his baby colorations or a sign of things to come!

He is just beginning to develop his personality and the Hardwired self will be be setting in place over the next couple of years. Keep reread that Thread regarding Amazon Body Language as it is very important that you know those Hardwired body language signs as he will expect you to know them.

As covered by my good friend above. It is best to have an Amazon land on your extended arm /hand. From an Amazon view-point, you are a head on a tree that can move its limbs. Hence, it is normal for them to connect with your face /head first.

Enjoy!

Thank you so much for super info and tips! I’m reading everything closely and watching a tonne of videos and reading articles to make sure that we will make this home the best it can be for him.

I read his tag and it’s a number the country’s national association uses for tropical birds so everything looks good so far. They have also kept in touch with us and he gave me the name of a well known breeder here he works with. Fingers crossed.

He’s most definitely an Amazon and he’s very opinionated and he does not enjoy being corrected in any way, which for us is fine, for the most part, but when it comes to where he lands (our heads and shoulders) and what he plays with, sometimes we need to get him off or make him do something else, what do you do in these situations? He was forced a lot by the previous breeder/owner, but I know that’s not the way to do things with Amazon’s and he’s clearly been telling us by biting us bleeding hard. Do you train them to tolerate being held over the feathers and to tolerate being moved away from spots? I really don’t know how to tackle this specific problem with a bird. He just doesn’t want to and there is seemingly no way of changing what he’s doing without getting mauled by an angry green dino.

 

[texsize]

They are really cute when they play on their back.
My Bingo does that but I can’t bring a foreign object into the mix.
It turns play into overstimulation in a blink.
I pump his feet, beak wrestle with him and “tickle “ him on tummy.
I know I shouldn’t do that tummy thing but the damage was done with Bingo and it’s too late.
He sees me as his mate.
That is likely the reason for his aggression towards OP’s.

Bella my CAG and Baby my old cockatiel are the only birds that land on my.
Bella nearly always lands on my shoulder.
Baby sometimes lands on the head but he steps up ez.

Bingo doesn’t fly.
I have lost trust in bingo shoulder surfing.
Had 3 bad bites and that’s enough.
sometimes is my fault for sure.

Bingo on shoulder in kitchen, need to take prescription meds.
pick up pill bottle and start to open.
Hear hissing like punctured tire.
remember Bingo HATES pill bottles.
turn head away from buzz saw and feel incredible pain from back of scalp.
Bingo is literally hanging from my scalp by force (lots of force) of his beak.

thats one of 3.
All three were memorable.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

They are really cute when they play on their back.
My Bingo does that but I can’t bring a foreign object into the mix.
It turns play into overstimulation in a blink.
I pump his feet, beak wrestle with him and “tickle “ him on tummy.
I know I shouldn’t do that tummy thing but the damage was done with Bingo and it’s too late.
He sees me as his mate.
That is likely the reason for his aggression towards OP’s.

Bella my CAG and Baby my old cockatiel are the only birds that land on my.
Bella nearly always lands on my shoulder.
Baby sometimes lands on the head but he steps up ez.

Bingo doesn’t fly.
I have lost trust in bingo shoulder surfing.
Had 3 bad bites and that’s enough.
sometimes is my fault for sure.

Bingo on shoulder in kitchen, need to take prescription meds.
pick up pill bottle and start to open.
Hear hissing like punctured tire.
remember Bingo HATES pill bottles.
turn head away from buzz saw and feel incredible pain from back of scalp.
Bingo is literally hanging from my scalp by force (lots of force) of his beak.

thats one of 3.
All three were memorable.

Imagine if you had turned your face to Bingo instead of away!

 

[texsize]

Imagine if you had turned your face to Bingo instead of away!

I did know it was coming.
just enough time to realize I did something dumb.

2nd worst was a complete surprise when he bit hard on the cartilage of my ear.
I swatted at him cuz my instinctive response is to think wasp.
Took Bingo 2 weeks to stop being afraid of my right hand.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I did know it was coming.
just enough time to realize I did something dumb.

2nd worst was a complete surprise when he bit hard on the cartilage of my ear.
I swatted at him cuz my instinctive response is to think wasp.
Took Bingo 2 weeks to stop being afraid of my right hand.

My budgie Rocky is so fearless it's almost laughable- if I swat her away (I have to when she does things like jumps into my dinner plate) she acts like a housefly and circles right back! From inches away I can bark at her, growl at her, or make scary gestures and faces and she stands her ground. She is one tough budgie, and we're crazy about her!

 

[Coltiefication]

They are really cute when they play on their back.
My Bingo does that but I can’t bring a foreign object into the mix.
It turns play into overstimulation in a blink.
I pump his feet, beak wrestle with him and “tickle “ him on tummy.
I know I shouldn’t do that tummy thing but the damage was done with Bingo and it’s too late.
He sees me as his mate.
That is likely the reason for his aggression towards OP’s.

Bella my CAG and Baby my old cockatiel are the only birds that land on my.
Bella nearly always lands on my shoulder.
Baby sometimes lands on the head but he steps up ez.

Bingo doesn’t fly.
I have lost trust in bingo shoulder surfing.
Had 3 bad bites and that’s enough.
sometimes is my fault for sure.

Bingo on shoulder in kitchen, need to take prescription meds.
pick up pill bottle and start to open.
Hear hissing like punctured tire.
remember Bingo HATES pill bottles.
turn head away from buzz saw and feel incredible pain from back of scalp.
Bingo is literally hanging from my scalp by force (lots of force) of his beak.

thats one of 3.
All three were memorable.

I noticed that he got a little overstimulated at one point, so we quit the game ^^,

Do you know if it’s okay to touch them like that when they’re babies before puberty or is it always best not to do it if you don’t want your bird to mate bond with you?

Ouff, sounds really painful.

 

[Coltiefication]

My budgie Rocky is so fearless it's almost laughable- if I swat her away (I have to when she does things like jumps into my dinner plate) she acts like a housefly and circles right back! From inches away I can bark at her, growl at her, or make scary gestures and faces and she stands her ground. She is one tough budgie, and we're crazy about her!

Why haven’t I thought about trying that before?! I will definitely try to see if it can help with corrections, he is just so darn opinionated. It’s kinda cute and very impractical.

I got to scratch his head this morning and I’m the proudest mom ever right now!

 

[texsize]

I noticed that he got a little overstimulated at one point, so we quit the game ^^,

Do you know if it’s okay to touch them like that when they’re babies before puberty or is it always best not to do it if you don’t want your bird to mate bond with you?

Ouff, sounds really painful.

All the experts say don’t.

TBH I have to say a tickle session can trigger a desire to mate with my hand.
But lots of things can trigger that behavior..
Just letting him “give me a kiss” can do it.
when he is this close it’s hard to dodge a kiss.

We bought Bingo in 85 and we knew NOTHING about proper care. It’s lucky he lived through his first 10 years..
But we never knew why the original owners sold him.
Said he was 1 year old but he was trying to mate with our hands within a year.
best guess is hormones were kicking in and they couldn’t handle it.

One reason to avoid bonding with him in this way is it can cause egg laying.
Obviously that’s not a problem for you or me.

the other is aggression.
It’s just my opinion but if you’r bird (what’s his name, I didn’t catch it) is properly socialized with all your family members the aggression would only show up in the breeding season.
And now when he is young is the time to get everyone involved by playing “pass the bird”.
You know, handing the bird back and forth between the family.

I think he would be a well mannered bird even if you tickle his tummy once and a while.

I hope others chime in on this.
I don’t mind being called out wrong if I am.

 

[wrench13]

So you want to be able to handle your Amazon almost everywhere. Why? Because if you want to train him to wear a harness, you need to be able to handle his wings, head, neck and generally have him not freak out when you touch or hold him. Like all training with parrots, this is best done gradually with tiny steps forward over time. Its never too early to start regular training with him, and will only tighten the bond you have with him.

Salty and I train every single night, and he is almost 9 yrs old now. Training can be as short as 15 minutes, and best done at a set time every day.

Juvenile parrots can display different coloration then their adult plumage will end up. Salty had beautiful blue under his beak when he was a baby/adolescent, which disappeared after puberty (so sad it was really a nice blue).

As far as body language, my good friend 'Boats' thread on that is superb, but with one caveat - every parrot is its own bird, and yours may not follow all the signals 'Boats describes for each state of mind. In example, most Amazons spread tail feather W-I-D-E when they are excited and happy, some do that whenever they vocalize. Our little Yellow Shoulder Amazon only does that as a prelude to administering a bite (but not every time). His body language for a guaranteed bite is pinned eyes and the head lowered, and even then he gives a warning lunge before he means real business. Salty's species is considered one of the mild tempered Amazons, but he is no wuss to be sure. Yours is also considered the same, but as I said every bird is different.

MY opinion is that you need to start setting boundaries for behavior with him, As a juvenile, and in a new house, he is still pushing the envelope. If you let him run roughshod over you and the family - well that is a recipe for a badly behaved parrot who either spends too much time in cage or is rehomed because o one can deal with him. Amazons in general are VERY SMART and fully capable of figuring out how to manipulate their family members. Shunning is the key here! Its how juvies are disciplined in the wild. TO be effective, it must be done immediately, placing him on a handy chair back or other neutral spot (NOT his cage), and last no more then 1 minute. No eye contact, no talking about him or the event (remember I said they are smart!). After that minute you can re-engage. This ONLY works if he cannot just fly back to you or away from the 'time out' spot, so you may want to consider a light clip of his wings, a temporary measure (they grow back). Just enough to let him glide to the floor instead of getting any altitude. Best done by your vet or a tech there.

 

[Coltiefication]

All the experts say don’t.

TBH I have to say a tickle session can trigger a desire to mate with my hand.
But lots of things can trigger that behavior..
Just letting him “give me a kiss” can do it.
when he is this close it’s hard to dodge a kiss.
View attachment 56599We bought Bingo in 85 and we knew NOTHING about proper care. It’s lucky he lived through his first 10 years..
But we never knew why the original owners sold him.
Said he was 1 year old but he was trying to mate with our hands within a year.
best guess is hormones were kicking in and they couldn’t handle it.

One reason to avoid bonding with him in this way is it can cause egg laying.
Obviously that’s not a problem for you or me.

the other is aggression.
It’s just my opinion but if you’r bird (what’s his name, I didn’t catch it) is properly socialized with all your family members the aggression would only show up in the breeding season.
And now when he is young is the time to get everyone involved by playing “pass the bird”.
You know, handing the bird back and forth between the family.

I think he would be a well mannered bird even if you tickle his tummy once and a while.

I hope others chime in on this.
I don’t mind being called out wrong if I am.

Aaaw, such a handsome boy!
Thank you for the info, I will definitely play pass the bird with people ^^, I think we have landed on Meeko.

I hope that I can get away with it on occasion (at least now when he’s so young) because it’s so hard not to do it when I have the chance, he’s just too darn cute!

 

[texsize]

Aaaw, such a handsome boy!
Thank you for the info, I will definitely play pass the bird with people ^^, I think we have landed on Meeko.

I hope that I can get away with it on occasion (at least now when he’s so young) because it’s so hard not to do it when I have the chance, he’s just too darn cute!

I did successfully use an aviator harness on Bingo…… twice.

I can do most anything with Bingo far as handling.
My thinking was the quicker I got harness on & Bingo outside the better he would associate harness with going outside.
Second try I got it on and took him out.
Loved it.
Not so happy/agreeable trying to remove harness.
Maybe Wrench’s slow/steady approach better.

 

[Coltiefication]

So you want to be able to handle your Amazon almost everywhere. Why? Because if you want to train him to wear a harness, you need to be able to handle his wings, head, neck and generally have him not freak out when you touch or hold him. Like all training with parrots, this is best done gradually with tiny steps forward over time. Its never too early to start regular training with him, and will only tighten the bond you have with him.

Salty and I train every single night, and he is almost 9 yrs old now. Training can be as short as 15 minutes, and best done at a set time every day.

Juvenile parrots can display different coloration then their adult plumage will end up. Salty had beautiful blue under his beak when he was a baby/adolescent, which disappeared after puberty (so sad it was really a nice blue).

As far as body language, my good friend 'Boats' thread on that is superb, but with one caveat - every parrot is its own bird, and yours may not follow all the signals 'Boats describes for each state of mind. In example, most Amazons spread tail feather W-I-D-E when they are excited and happy, some do that whenever they vocalize. Our little Yellow Shoulder Amazon only does that as a prelude to administering a bite (but not every time). His body language for a guaranteed bite is pinned eyes and the head lowered, and even then he gives a warning lunge before he means real business. Salty's species is considered one of the mild tempered Amazons, but he is no wuss to be sure. Yours is also considered the same, but as I said every bird is different.

MY opinion is that you need to start setting boundaries for behavior with him, As a juvenile, and in a new house, he is still pushing the envelope. If you let him run roughshod over you and the family - well that is a recipe for a badly behaved parrot who either spends too much time in cage or is rehomed because o one can deal with him. Amazons in general are VERY SMART and fully capable of figuring out how to manipulate their family members. Shunning is the key here! Its how juvies are disciplined in the wild. TO be effective, it must be done immediately, placing him on a handy chair back or other neutral spot (NOT his cage), and last no more then 1 minute. No eye contact, no talking about him or the event (remember I said they are smart!). After that minute you can re-engage. This ONLY works if he cannot just fly back to you or away from the 'time out' spot, so you may want to consider a light clip of his wings, a temporary measure (they grow back). Just enough to let him glide to the floor instead of getting any altitude. Best done by your vet or a tech there.

Thank you so much for your reply, it’s just what I need!

After reading your reply I think I should consider clipping him at a professional, since our experience so far is that timeout isn’t working because he either flies to our heads if we leave the room or just couldn’t care less about being ignored because he then finds something more fun to do. He’s mostly been fine with us not giving him any attention as he loves to play on his cage or find something else to destroy. It’s been hard
He’s also never letting us leave his sight and always landing on our heads if we don’t turn around fast enough to offer him our hand.
Should I consider locking him a little more in the cage to feel more calm about us leaving the room without him? As long as we answer his calls which at the moment is a “Hello?”?
As for being locked in the cage in general he always realise when it’s going to happen and he hates it, is the key to this just giving him something good to eat every time?

Also question about his UV-lamp, how much time under it does he need?

And I honestly have no idea how much these birds actually eat, he’s always got a ton of food left, is there a guide anywhere that says something approximately? I’ve read about the percentages of the different ingredients, but is there a -from and —to total I can use?
And also, what’s an okay amount of treats per day (he loves seeds and nuts of course, but I know he shouldn’t have much of this).

Thank you so much for your time!

 

[SailBoat]

Time to become a Crazy Amazon Person (CAP)!

I strongly believe in creating a fairly on-going communication with our DYH Amazon as it allows him to know where we are and for us to know where he is!! Most Parrots love to 'contact call' and this just steps it up a bit. I have found that nearly any sound combination will work, but to hold the title of a CAP to a less public level it is better not to use a string of words as you may just find yourself shopping and saying those words in a public setting!

At home, I am in a near continuous contact calling with our Amazon! And, especially when I am coming his way! I will start at some distance with asking if he wants to step-up and letting him know where I was planning on taking him. This way, when I arrive he is commonly ready and may even have his claw up ready for a step-up. If the claw is not up, I need to be a bit more clear on where we are going and ask again. As the claw rises, I move my finger in and he steps-up.

I am a strong believer in this approach as if you NEED him to step-up and you just show-up, you could get a rejection!! This all ties to having a reason and letting you Amazon know in advance!!

More later!

 

[wrench13]

@OP that is why you place him on a chair back or other uninteresting place. Work to strengthen your bond with him. Regular training sessions will help that a lot.
Get a kitchen scale that reads out in grams, about $40 or so online, and weigh every day, keep a log. Its one of the best ways to detect if your parrot is sick and you;ll see any weight gain too. They throw so much away its the ONLY way to tell if he is eating and how much.

Parrots, at least until you are VERY sure about him, should never be left out of cage alone in a room. Thats asking for things to be destroyed and him getting into trouble like chewing on wires.

 

[Coltiefication]

Time to become a Crazy Amazon Person (CAP)!

I strongly believe in creating a fairly on-going communication with our DYH Amazon as it allows him to know where we are and for us to know where he is!! Most Parrots love to 'contact call' and this just steps it up a bit. I have found that nearly any sound combination will work, but to hold the title of a CAP to a less public level it is better not to use a string of words as you may just find yourself shopping and saying those words in a public setting!

At home, I am in a near continuous contact calling with our Amazon! And, especially when I am coming his way! I will start at some distance with asking if he wants to step-up and letting him know where I was planning on taking him. This way, when I arrive he is commonly ready and may even have his claw up ready for a step-up. If the claw is not up, I need to be a bit more clear on where we are going and ask again. As the claw rises, I move my finger in and he steps-up.

I am a strong believer in this approach as if you NEED him to step-up and you just show-up, you could get a rejection!! This all ties to having a reason and letting you Amazon know in advance!!

More later!

We already feel like CAP’s. We’re both introverts, but man we can be chatty! We’re quite surprised by how we constantly feel the need to talk to him. He doesn’t answer our flock calls, but he finds it reassuring when we answer his.

Thank you again for great advice, I will for sure implement it.

 

[Coltiefication]

@OP that is why you place him on a chair back or other uninteresting place. Work to strengthen your bond with him. Regular training sessions will help that a lot.
Get a kitchen scale that reads out in grams, about $40 or so online, and weigh every day, keep a log. Its one of the best ways to detect if your parrot is sick and you;ll see any weight gain too. They throw so much away its the ONLY way to tell if he is eating and how much.

Parrots, at least until you are VERY sure about him, should never be left out of cage alone in a room. Thats asking for things to be destroyed and him getting into trouble like chewing on wires.

I don’t think my ‘zon has gotten the memo of what’s considered to be boring. He finds everything exciting at the moment, but we’ll sure work on the training and bonding with him.

I have a scale to weigh him so I’ll do that, thanks.

We never -leave him- leave him and we’re treating him like a child in the most curious age so there’s no room for him to hurt himself, we always make sure of that

He’s checking everything out with his beak, and I mean everything, but he’s always very careful with everything, like the string in the photo in the OP, he just loves to touch, a lot. We’re not leaving him alone with it, so he won’t get stuck.

So he’s just over 5 months now, is there a sort of list of different age periods when it comes to the Amazons? I have a lot of experience with dogs and cats and know all the different ages and what’s typical for them (from puppy and kitten age), but I haven’t found anything regarding ‘zons except varying answers about when they start puberty and hormonal seasons, but does anyone know if they have typical ages when growing up?