Punishing

[Johnny]

Hello! So my question is, how would you "punish" you bird if he would do something bad - like poop on a wrong place (again and again...) or trying to bite of wood from furnature. What works best?

I already tried saying "NO" with a mean look in the chewing case, but with no luck. And I have this pooping problem for the last month, Ciry just flies to sofa and does her "thing" there, and I have already "explained" to her MANY times she cannot do that there ! (and she knows where she can poop of course) So what would you suggest?

Thanks a lot !

 

[weco]

I hate to tell you this, but our feathered friends do not understand punishment...they simply don't understand the concept.....

There are any number of articles on the internet, along with videos on youtube about toilet training birds, potty training birds, how to toilet train birds, how to house train your bird, potty training your bird.....and.....even potty training article from MIT University.....just look around the internet, explaining the techniques here would take a bit more time than you might think.....

Good luck.....

 

[Johnny]

Well I didn't mean like literally punishing, but more of a "what would you do in that situation, when your bird does something you dont want him to do". I know about that missing sense of good and bad, I just sometimes don't know how to handle that situation. They cannot just get away with everything, right?

 

[MonicaMc]

I would work on rewarding the behaviors I do want more than the behaviors that I don't want.

 

[getwozzy]

I think you're better off with positive reinforcement and redirecting..."punishment" will only magnify your problems and/or create new unwanted behaviors. Does ciry have a designated potty spot? If not, figure one out and then work on potty training. And if you see her headed to the couch, intercept her as soon as you can and redirect her to the potty spot.

Same thing with chewing on things- redirect her to something acceptable to chew on- like a fun toy.

 

[weco]

Monica's right, our feathered friends really have no concept of what's right or wrong either.....if you let a 2yo 0r 3yo child to run around without guidance or direction, you end up with chaos.....the same is true of birds...they have to be taught what the acceptable limits are & what are not.....

There is a lot of good clicker training and touch training articles on the internet, as well as a few decent videos on the topics, in youtube.....

Not to worry, I didn't think you were a Captain Bligh, but the post was a bit to the point, that being said, check out/read up on training methods & when you feel comfortable with one or more methods, you can start your & Ozzie's new schooling/training classes......15 - 20 minute sessions are suggested, so he doesn't lose interest.....

Good luck.....

 

[Johnny]

I think you're better off with positive reinforcement and redirecting..."punishment" will only magnify your problems and/or create new unwanted behaviors. Does ciry have a designated potty spot? If not, figure one out and then work on potty training. And if you see her headed to the couch, intercept her as soon as you can and redirect her to the potty spot.

Same thing with chewing on things- redirect her to something acceptable to chew on- like a fun toy.

Yes, she does have her spot where I already taught her the "poop command" and she does go there when she wants to poop. Its's just that in last month she started to poop sometimes when on the couch. I guess we will have to redo the training again. And thanks for the advices, I will just quickly get her off the couch. Hopefully she will remember where to poop only

So what you are saying is that instead of being negative to her when she does something bad, it is better to reward her and praise her when she stops doing it? Would that work? Hope I got it right

Again, thanks a lot guys!

 

[weco]

Like children, companion parrots sometimes lose interest quickly and need refresher courses on a things, but unlike children, some may not learn as quickly or easily distracted, so it is often that their refresher courses may be needed throughout their lifetime.....

 

[MonicaMc]

Not quite...

It's better to try and prevent an undesired behavior from occurring rather than allowing it to occur. If it doesn't occur, then it can't be rewarded in a negative or positive manner.


Many people are all "gung-ho" about ignoring bad behavior and reinforcing good behavior... but often times, it takes more than that. It's not always that simple. The best way to stop an undesired behavior from occurring is to prevent it from happening in the first place. That is, setting the bird up for success.


Here's some good blog posts by Lara Joseph.

A Quick Example of How Positive Reinforcement Can Help in Preventing an Undesired Behavior | Lara Joseph

Unknowingly Punishing Desired Behavior | Lara Joseph

Putting Behaviors on Cue?Knowingly or Unknowingly | Lara Joseph



So in your case, with Ciry, rather than punishing or being negative to her about her pooping when she is on the sofa, you should instead figure out how often she goes and every 15 minutes or 45 minutes, take her to her potty area and have her go there. She should be potty trained to go in her cage and where-ever else you want her to go.

If she ends up going somewhere where you don't want her to go, it's not her fault. It's yours. It's yours for not making sure she was in the right place. You need to be more diligent on making sure she goes where you want her to go. She doesn't completely understand that she's not supposed to be doing what she is. Even though parrots are capable of human speech, it's often just them parroting us unless they learn the meaning behind the words. Many parrots don't.



In the case of chewing on something she shouldn't? Prevent her access to those items by keeping her away from them or covering them up. Give her things she *is* allowed to chew on and reward her for playing with those items. Punishing an undesired behavior may make an animal try to be sneakier when it comes to doing the behavior you don't want.

An example? A dog has an accident in the home. If you punish the dog for going inside the house, then you may be teaching the dog to go in more remote areas of the house so you can't see it, or maybe teaching him to cover up his mess. You are not rewarding him for going to the bathroom where he should - i.e. outside or on a pad.


Does that make sense?


And speaking of dogs... well, I've got a quirky example using my own dog!


With my dog, I have a pretty simple solution that I came upon by accident! I "beat the crap" out of him before he gets to go back inside! I have an 80lb akita mix, and the best way to prevent him from going inside the house is by making sure he goes to the bathroom before he goes back indoors. The easiest way to ensure this? Get him really hyper and excited so he has to run around the entire yard! This results in him having to go to the bathroom... how do I get him all excited? Using my hands, I slap or thump his sides and rump. I don't know why, but he likes it... (he gets that doggie smile while doing this! and he comes back for more!) and it gets him all excited... and then he runs around in circles and eventually goes and takes a dump! (hence the phrase that "I beat the crap out of my dog" )

He is then inside for 10 or so hours with no access to the outside and he doesn't have an incident inside the home! I prevented undesired behavior with him by ensuring he did desirable behavior before he could do the undesired one. There are times that he still has an accident in the home, but this is more because he has an upset stomach and can't hold it in. If that occurs, well, he tries to go in the bathroom. I don't know how he picked up that the "human potty room" is a better place to have an accident in the house as compared to any other place, but at least he tries!

 

[getwozzy]

Like weco and Monica said you probably need to do a refresher course with her and re-establish the potty routine...study her- see how often she goes, time intervals between, physical cues- does she wiggle her tail? Fluff and squat? does she do a potty dance? Lol

Reward behaviors you want- that doesn't necessarily mean give her a treat every time, but most of the time verbal rewards are satisfying or even scritches.

You have to be diligent and consistent though.

 

[ruffledfeathers]

I can't say i have a really well 'potty trained' bird, but he does 'get it' and his accidents are minimal. I tell him to go poop though. If i don't hold my hand up for him to fly and say "go poop" every so often, he would probably just poop right on the sofa. I say "go poop" before he is allowed to come out of the cage too and when he does it, i say good boy and he looks really proud of himself. So maybe your bird gets distracted and doesn't really care if he goes potty when the mood strikes...maybe if you give the regular reminder and praise it will help?

 

[MonicaMc]

Parrots should never be strictly potty train... it's better for them to have accidents than to not. Otherwise, you might end up with a bird who only goes when it's told to go... which can result in a bird who doesn't go for 8 or more hours at a time during the day.

 

[Johnny]

Thanks a lot guys ! These advices really helped me to understand their behaviour better. I was sometimes really confused when reading acticles about this and that. Those examples were really helpful.

Guess we BOTH have to work hard on this

Again, thanks a lot, especially for getting rid of my confusion about what to do exactly !

 

[MonicaMc]

There is a lot of conflicting advice out there, which makes it difficult figuring out what you *should* or can do.

Most advice is based on dominance/flooding techniques and with the assumption that parrots always know when they've done good or bad... but having a parrot is like having an exchange student in your home and trying to communicate with them when neither one of you knows or understands each others languages. There's going to be some cultural differences in how each of you do things. Parrots may be able to learn our language (or at least parrot it), but we can't easily learn theirs. We can't make the same squawks and noises that they can and know what we are saying.

Positive reinforcement training/clicker training/applied behavior analysis is more flexible. It doesn't have one specific training guideline to follow because it varies depending on the bird and what they find as positive or negative. It looks at *why* the behavior is occurring and how to prevent it rather than trying to solve the problem after it has already occurred.

You can't reward a bird negatively or positively for biting, screaming or any other undesired behaviors if it hasn't happened. It is a different way of training since you are looking at fixing a problem before it occurs rather than after it occurs. It also takes being creative because what may work for one bird may not work for the next!

 

[Irishj9]

Well Im not in favour of punishment. Correction is another matter.

I have a flock of 8 caiques and they correct each other often and loudly, when a nip is too much, when food is stolen etc etc.

Birds understand correction.

JP

 

[Birdman666]

I hate to tell you this, but our feathered friends do not understand punishment...they simply don't understand the concept.....

There are any number of articles on the internet, along with videos on youtube about toilet training birds, potty training birds, how to toilet train birds, how to house train your bird, potty training your bird.....and.....even potty training article from MIT University.....just look around the internet, explaining the techniques here would take a bit more time than you might think.....

Good luck.....

Good advice.

First of all, if the bird goes to chew on something he is not supposed to, pick him up, put him somewhere else, and give him what he is supposed to chew up. Do this again, each time he tries.

He will quickly get the message that this is my chew toy.

In terms of "time outs" these need to happen the instant the bad behavior happens, or the bird simply associates the "punishment" with "my owner is being a D#@k to me, and I don't like it, or him very much right now!"