Please help! Hahns Macaw biting!!

[Benfan]

I am looking after my daughter's one year old Hahn's macaw while she is on holiday. I had several visits with the bird beforehand to get her acquainted with me and she was soon sitting on my hand and preening and being very relaxed. All has gone well over the last few days, my daughter loves this bird and is expert with her but I am not experienced. However, I have followed her instructions to the letter. The bird has started to object to being put back in her cage. She runs up my arm to my shoulder like lightening - I know I am not meant to allow this as it is a dominant position but then I ask her to 'step-up' on my hand and she bites me! With patience I have managed to get her back into her cage but today was a real battle and she got nasty with her eyes pinpointing. It was really scary. I tried to keep calm but I have uttered the odd yelp when she has bitten me. I feel it was all going so well and now I have lost control. I did do something different beforehand. To save poop going on my clothes I just draped a towel around my shoulder (hands and arms were out and visible). We sat and she preened a bit but kept going to my shoulder and got really agitated. I do wonder if the towel frightened her.

Any advice would be gratefully received. I am scared of her now!!

Thank you

 

[goalerjones]

Welcome. And now you know my pain. Hahns are "button pushers" if they get the chance. They will test your resolve. And that beak draws blood very quickly. So, a few guidelines.
1) they poop every 20-30 minutes so get into the habit of giving her the chance of pooping off of you maybe into the trash can or even the toilet if it's handy. Pick a command like "shake it" as a cue. Then treat her like a potty trained child and shower her with praise.
2) since she's a child (about the maturity level of a 2-3 year old) she's not going to be excited about "going to bed". I use treats as a lure, or take my shirt off if the battle is too great and allow her to hop off once I have her inside the cage. You can also use a perch stick to keep some distance.
3) don't stick your hand inside her cage, likely this will trigger cage aggression.
4) she's going to test you. You're the substitute teacher and you have to set boundaries and rules. If she disobeyed then she gets isolation. Not anger or yelling, just a time out. Even then they have very good memories so you may get a nip here and there as a reminder that she hasn't forgotten.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Jottlebot]

How long is your daughter away? Is it possible to not let her out of the cage for the rest of the time? I know that's not ideal, but if it's only a short period I don't think it would be an issue. You could spend the time bonding with her inside the cage. She can still be well cared for and happy enough.

You also don't want her to realise stepping up and biting is more fun than just stepping up or she might develop the habit!

It might be the towel, it might be that she's realised your daughter isn't back yet and that's upset her. She won't understand she's on holiday!

There are lots of things you can do, have a look at other threads about bonding or getting a bird back in the cage, but I wonder whether it is worth it for you as you only have temporary responsibility for her?

 

[LordTriggs]

okay here's a couple things that should hopefully help.

1. There's no such thing as dominance or a dominant position with a bird. Being prey/flock animals everyone is equal. Dominance and all associated behavior is a trait of pack/predator animals. If she's calm on your shoulder and isn't biting whilst on the shoulder then it's fine to leave her there. Shoulder privileges are all about trust from both parties, her trust you're safe to be around and fun, and your trust she wont take a chunk out of you. If possible remove any glasses or jewelry. Those are some amazing toys when on shoulders, being a glasses wearer I can attest that they will try to either remove the glasses or kill them, or occasionally use them as a perch

2. They're missing your daughter. May be hard to hear but over this time they're gonna be bratty and upset because their flock has gone, dead? abandoned them? they don't know so they're upset.

3. Wanting to be with you and not in the cage is good! It means you're more fun and interesting than the cage. Always make sure your attempts to get them in are well before you leave the house so as not to rush them. Also offer their treat to them in the cage for when they get off. If you find it hard to juggle everything show them the treat and place it on the perch you're putting them on. It'll help, not all the way but there's incentive to go in when a nice treat is there.

4. You're gonna get pooped on, best accept it. Towels are often scary and on a shoulder aren't stable which may be why they are more nervy.

5. When you see them eye pinning or flaring the feathers around their neck, holding their beak open staring at you just back off. These are their warning signs think like a dog growling and showing their teeth, you wouldn't poke your hand in a growling dog's face.

6. If you do get bitten keep in mind that it is never the bird's fault. You didn't read them right, ignored warning signs and made them bite to tell you they don't like what you did. I know it's not nice to hear but once you get bitten and look at it like that it's amazing how well it works.

Remain calm, ignore her bad behaviors and remember it's not forever just until your daughter is back. Maybe an idea to spend some time with your daughter teaching you some of the finer points with her parrot and some of her likes and dislikes

 

[plumsmum2005]

okay here's a couple things that should hopefully help.

1. There's no such thing as dominance or a dominant position with a bird. Being prey/flock animals everyone is equal. Dominance and all associated behavior is a trait of pack/predator animals. If she's calm on your shoulder and isn't biting whilst on the shoulder then it's fine to leave her there. Shoulder privileges are all about trust from both parties, her trust you're safe to be around and fun, and your trust she wont take a chunk out of you. If possible remove any glasses or jewelry. Those are some amazing toys when on shoulders, being a glasses wearer I can attest that they will try to either remove the glasses or kill them, or occasionally use them as a perch

2. They're missing your daughter. May be hard to hear but over this time they're gonna be bratty and upset because their flock has gone, dead? abandoned them? they don't know so they're upset.

3. Wanting to be with you and not in the cage is good! It means you're more fun and interesting than the cage. Always make sure your attempts to get them in are well before you leave the house so as not to rush them. Also offer their treat to them in the cage for when they get off. If you find it hard to juggle everything show them the treat and place it on the perch you're putting them on. It'll help, not all the way but there's incentive to go in when a nice treat is there.

4. You're gonna get pooped on, best accept it. Towels are often scary and on a shoulder aren't stable which may be why they are more nervy.

5. When you see them eye pinning or flaring the feathers around their neck, holding their beak open staring at you just back off. These are their warning signs think like a dog growling and showing their teeth, you wouldn't poke your hand in a growling dog's face.

6. If you do get bitten keep in mind that it is never the bird's fault. You didn't read them right, ignored warning signs and made them bite to tell you they don't like what you did. I know it's not nice to hear but once you get bitten and look at it like that it's amazing how well it works.

Remain calm, ignore her bad behaviors and remember it's not forever just until your daughter is back. Maybe an idea to spend some time with your daughter teaching you some of the finer points with her parrot and some of her likes and dislikes

Sorry with respect in a flock there is dominance and those that try it on with the flock leaders get put in their place. If a bird is allowed to assume that dominate role then all hell will break loose. How can a bird dominate you and a home environment? If you have ever seen a flock together the leaders are always at the highest point of the highest trees.

Search some of Birdman666 posts as he is very enlightening and takes no $^%&*.

http://www.parrotforums.com/macaws/56384-big-beak-o-phobes-guide-understanding-macaw-beaks.html

Poop does wash out but it is always wise to have an old shirt or two?

 

[Benfan]

Thank you for your replies - most helpful. I am also in Surrey LordTriggs!

My daughter is back in three days. Very tempting to leave her in the cage but she has a night cage she goes to in a different room. Getting her in is the usual palaver but once in we don't hear anything from her all night bless her. This is her normal routine so I don't want to change it although I am tempted!

A perch stick sounds like a good idea. Can I fashion one myself from bamboo or small branch from the garden?

I'm not sure I understand about it being my fault when she bites? If she is on my shoulder and I need to get her off (I do allow plenty of time) and I put my hand out and stay 'step up' but she ignores it and then attacks it - what am I doing wrong? I can understand about her biting if I put my hand in her cage as this is her territory.

Yes, it could be she is missing my daughter, they have a close bond. She seemed to accept me very well as a reasonable substitute until this morning!

 

[plumsmum2005]

If you think intelligence of small child 2/3 y/o that might be illuminating and she does it because she can. If you can try a firm instruction to step up in your most authoritarian voice you can muster, chances are she wont argue as she will be so surprised.

Good to see the UK contingent out in force LOL.

 

[LordTriggs]

huh, I was always told there isn't dominance and birds work on an equal position thing. Maybe I misunderstood what I was told?

Benfan, haha another local! I'd try using a perch from her cage, she should be more comfortable and you know it's safe. As for the biting it's possible she's quite happy where she is an knows your hand appearing is to move her on. Have you tried holding a treat out in a way to make her step-up for it? Also when you say a bite/attack does she lunge and latch on or does she slowly lean over and put her beak on you? If the latter then it's not actually a bite but is a term known as beaking, don't know if your daughter spoke about it? Essentially her beak is another hand when used like this and is just checking that your finger wont suddenly fall.

In regards to the "fault" thing i find it hard to explain but I'll try my best. Essentially whenever a bird bites they will often do it as a last resort, they have warning signs us humans don't see. Try to use it as a way to observe what sets them off but not look at it as them being naughty and more what you can do to avoid a bite. Good example was my conure, I got a bite from him once when I came in after a colder day. I looked at what was different that day, was it because I was wet? Did I sneak up on him? Did I change my routine? I found a conclusion after I warmed up and took my hoody off. He didn't like the hoody, for some reason it was scary to him so I kept it out of sight. the next day I got a plastic bag and he looked petrified of it, run to the corner of his cage and was cowering from it. this made me deduce it wasn't the hoody that scared him but the one trait that both of these shared, they were bright red. I then had to hide any red items that were the same brightness. My sofa is red but he liked that so it's very hard at times to work out. But through me looking at everything that wasn't him and every other possibility it made me find out what was causing the problem. In his mind he was trying to help me escape from the hoody but the plastic bag wasn't around me so he didn't need to save me by being brave so he just wanted to hide from it.

It does sound like she's having birdy tantrum over your daughter being away or even just figuring out what her limits are with you. She doesn't sound too bad though, some can be little nightmares without their favorite person.

you seem to be doing well with her and just remember it's only a couple days now

 

[Benfan]

Ah that's interesting, an aversion to red, who knew?! I do wonder if the towel upset her so I won't be doing that again! So indeed it may be my fault.

No, she really went for my hand hard, I have experienced her sort of clinging with her beak and that's ok.

I will try and use her own perch to get her into her night cage. I bet she refuses to go on it or shoots up my arm again!

Thanks for all your help. As you say, not long to go and I can just get back to attending to my giant house-rabbit although I understand these parrots can last for 20 years! I may be having her every year till I'm an old lady!!

 

[Jottlebot]

20 years.....erm.....you might just want to have a bit of a chat with your daughter about that!...

 

[Birdman666]

The thing about birds on shoulders - it's not a dominance thing - it's a YOUR NOT IN A POSITION TO CONTROL ME thing. He's biting because he is attempting to dissuade you from making him do something he doesn't want to do.

If you allow him to get away with biting you, and he gets his way - YOU JUST TRAINED HIM TO BITE YOU!!!

That is the dynamic here! This is a very common birdie manipulation technique...

My Red Lored Amazon occasionally does NOT want to go back, and while she doesn't bite, she will do the clinging to my shoulder, bark and growl, and resist all attempts to set her down. My solution?! I start sliding my my shirt over my head beginning with the shoulder she is standing on. She knows she's going down every time if that happens, and she just gives up the battle.

 

[tashawithanekkie]

We bribe the bird. Put the treat in the food bowl, bowl in the cage, and allow him to decide to go get the beloved treat. It has to be his favorite treats though.

I have no idea if it would work with a mac but it might be worth a try for a couple of days.

 

[LordTriggs]

Ah that's interesting, an aversion to red, who knew?! I do wonder if the towel upset her so I won't be doing that again! So indeed it may be my fault.

No, she really went for my hand hard, I have experienced her sort of clinging with her beak and that's ok.

I will try and use her own perch to get her into her night cage. I bet she refuses to go on it or shoots up my arm again!

Thanks for all your help. As you say, not long to go and I can just get back to attending to my giant house-rabbit although I understand these parrots can last for 20 years! I may be having her every year till I'm an old lady!!

hehe... yeah... Try adding another decade or so onto that

Red sofa though? Nice playing spot, they're so strange with their fears. But it was always in front of his cage so he probably got used to it.

Oh don't worry, she will! Treats shown entering the cage can help and possibly more for your daughter to do but whilst out try putting in the cage and playing in there, it helped my bird with not wanting to go in. He wouldn't fly in on his own but if I put him there he would happily step off and go about his business

 

[Benfan]

Thanks again for all your advice. Well, she's had a right go at me again today. We had a lovely chat and she sat on my chest and had a lovely head-rub. I went to put her back, she ran up to my shoulder and would not get off. I had treats, I was calm, she just bit my hand if it went anywhere near her. She would not step-up. She also looked like she was going for my face. I leaned forward and she eventually stepped onto the top of the cage, but appeared agitated and her eyes going to pinheads again (that is so scary!!). She could sense my fear and it wound her up even more. She eventually climbed down near the open door and I managed to get her in with a gentle push much to her disgust.

My daughter is fed up with the rain where she is (bloody British holidays!) and is on her way back early. Thank God. I'm done.....

All the best to you all and your birds

 

[goalerjones]

The thing about birds on shoulders - it's not a dominance thing - it's a YOUR NOT IN A POSITION TO CONTROL ME thing. He's biting because he is attempting to dissuade you from making him do something he doesn't want to do.

If you allow him to get away with biting you, and he gets his way - YOU JUST TRAINED HIM TO BITE YOU!!!

That is the dynamic here! This is a very common birdie manipulation technique...

My Red Lored Amazon occasionally does NOT want to go back, and while she doesn't bite, she will do the clinging to my shoulder, bark and growl, and resist all attempts to set her down. My solution?! I start sliding my my shirt over my head beginning with the shoulder she is standing on. She knows she's going down every time if that happens, and she just gives up the battle.

I do this same thing with Hahnzel. She's learned to run to the top of my head, but then I just lean my whole head into her cage and then she hops off.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Cas27]

Three more days you're going too be fine the post above are good advice.

 

[LordTriggs]

Thanks again for all your advice. Well, she's had a right go at me again today. We had a lovely chat and she sat on my chest and had a lovely head-rub. I went to put her back, she ran up to my shoulder and would not get off. I had treats, I was calm, she just bit my hand if it went anywhere near her. She would not step-up. She also looked like she was going for my face. I leaned forward and she eventually stepped onto the top of the cage, but appeared agitated and her eyes going to pinheads again (that is so scary!!). She could sense my fear and it wound her up even more. She eventually climbed down near the open door and I managed to get her in with a gentle push much to her disgust.

My daughter is fed up with the rain where she is (bloody British holidays!) and is on her way back early. Thank God. I'm done.....

All the best to you all and your birds

That was caused by your hand going towards her back. Birds don't like/shouldn't be petted like a dog or cat. It's a sexual thing for them and can make them feel enclosed which they hate. It was a fear response nothing more, she then probably picked up on your tension which aggravated the situation. But you did do everything correct, keeping your hand away when she lunged then getting her off you. You seem to have done really well with her. To suddenly be passed a macaw for a few days with not much prior/any time with each other before is a big upset. Possibly try going over to your daughter's and spending time on occasion socializing with her bird so you can look after her easier if/when she goes on holiday again

 

[Cas27]

Just remember birds are creatures of habit, if I don't take them out of the cage in the morning and feed them in the morning in order boy they let me know by blowing my eardrums out. You're daughters bird had her comfortable routine has been interrupted .

 

[plumsmum2005]

Just remember birds are creatures of habit, if I don't take them out of the cage in the morning and feed them in the morning in order boy they let me know by blowing my eardrums out. You're daughters bird had her comfortable routine has been interrupted .

Fascinating. How do you work out what is the right order. Do they accept a certain way after a period of time and then if it changes vocalise to let you know you done it wrong?

 

[Kentuckienne]

Once the parrot is on the shoulder, they don't like to come down. I'm not surprised you got a bite trying to get her to step up to your hand from your shoulder. What I do with our parrot is walk over to the cage, lean up against a perch and kind of scrape him off. Or, I'll raise my arm at an angle and sit down on the floor. If that doesn't work I lie down on the floor. Birdie doesn't like to be on floor, and runs up to the higher spot which is now the hand. Then I stand up while holding that hand above my shoulder. Now we can go to cage-ville if we have to, or back to the perch. But no way would I put my hand anywhere near him when he's on the shoulder.