Playing on top of the cage... A dominance nono?

[Puck]

Okay, so a quick history before I start:

Saturday afternoon I adopted a Quaker parrot, Sammy, from a family who was moving to a new apartment and didn't want to take him. He was living in a cage way too small for a Quaker (it was more like a travel cage), and he spent most of the day out of the cage, sitting on top of it. Monday afternoon I bought him a Prevue flight cage, filled it with toys, and made a play area on top.

Generally, Sammy is pretty good. We seem to be bonding fairly well, and he is not cage aggressive at all. He is trying to assert himself as the boss a little, and I am doing my best to make sure that I keep my status as the woman in charge, though I don't have a lot of parrot experience. One problem I have, however, is him not wanting to get down from the top of his cage.

Yesterday I took him to the Kookaburra bird shop in Dallas to get his nails trimmed and was told that one way to make sure I stayed the boss was not to let him come and go from his cage as he pleases--remove him for his out of cage time and shut the door behind, then pick him up and put him back in for his in cage time. So that is what I started doing, however, it has made my difficulties with getting him off of the cage more prominent since I NEED to put him in at certain times so he can eat and drink!

Today I could tell that he wanted to eat his pellets and drink some water, so I decided to set them up on top of his cage. He got a few pellets down, but then managed to knock the bowl over, sending it all falling into his cage. He also obviously wanted to play with his toys, but seemed too nervous and strung out while on top of the cage, pacing around rather than playing with the toys up there. I knew he would be happier inside his new cage (which he probably hardly recognizes as a cage since it is SO much bigger than the area OUTSIDE the cage that he stayed in at his old home!), so I went over and tried to get him to Step Up, something that we are working on doing in neutral territory (I am pretty sure his old owners didn't try and teach him to Step Up and let him do as he pleased). With adolescence still ahead I want to make sure I am seen as the boss, but I definitely lose ground when trying to get him down from the cage. He comes down when HE wants to (like when I am eating or watching TV and he wants to hang out), but when I try to get him to Step Up other times, I end up having to eventually pick him up in my hands and then place him in his cage (much to his great annoyance). I did this today, and then he happily ate pellets and played his his puzzle toys and perched on his wood perch bridge preening his feathers for hours, obviously much happier than he'd been on the cage top! Yet he doesn't ever want to come down off the cage top, making me think it is a territory, "I'm the boss" sort of behavior.

So my question is, should I remove the play top from the cage and use a play stand instead, away from the cage, when it is out of cage time? Is letting him play on top of the cage setting us back in "who da boss?" order? I am torn because I know he likes being on top of the cage since that is what he is used to, but I don't want to have to spend twenty minutes trying to get him down when I am trying to teach him manners. Opinions and suggestions are appreciated! I want Sammy and I to have a good relationship with clear limits so when he decides to start full out acting like a teenager that we have some kind of lines drawn.

Sammy's current cage with old cage beside it:

 

[Kiwibird]

Playing on the top of the cage isn't necessarily a problem, but for certain individuals it can be (especially new birds who have not yet found their "place" in the flock). Then again, if a bird has "dominance" and territorial issues, if it's not the top of their cage, those issues will just transfer somewhere else they want to "rule over" and "defend" (inside of cage, play stand, favored spot in the house, your shoulder ect...). I would take the cage top down for now and continue working with him until he is competent at stepping up. He is still VERY new and he needs time to learn that while he is a valued member of your "flock" he is not the boss (you are). I recommend you do step up drills from various place (basically, set aside 10 minutes or so 2X a day and just step him up and down from his cage and all over the house so he learns it doesn't matter where he is, he should step up when asked). Make sure you reward him and praise him so it's a positive experience. He's not being punished or anything, he just needs to learn I also suggest you start target training as well, to build trust and promote healthy interactions. It will take some time, a few weeks, a few months maybe, just go slow and let him come around on his time.

Personally, my bird spends a good deal of his days on top of his cage and has 0 issues stepping up when it's time to go up or move somewhere else. He has, over the years, earned the privilege of not ever being shut in his cage during the day and comes and goes freely (not something you should even consider at this point, parrots can get in a lot of 'trouble' and not every bird is a good candidate for an open cage door policy). He was a terror when we first got him and didn't appear to know how to step up. It took some time and dedication in the beginning. These days, he has no issue stepping up from anywhere, and that's (I firmly believe) because we did so many step up drills when he was new. He's not territorial anywhere either. He's welcome to hang out with us all over the house, but if he gets stubborn or aggressive, he gets a step up drill and/or a time out (and he knows it too!). He would much rather hang out and have fun than do step up drills or get a time out, so he behaves himself. Parrots are smart and they learn very quickly what the expected behavior of their human flock is. Remember, he wants to be part of your flock and needs to be shown how to be a good member. They do best with consistent responses to misbehaving (never punishment, more refreshing their training or having a little quiet time alone to calm down) and consistent reward/praise for good behavior. I'm sure in time he will be just fine being anywhere without territorialism/aggression and stepping up consistently!

 

[weco]

While I totally agree with KB, her "He is still VERY new and he needs time to learn that while he is a valued member of your "flock" he is not the boss (you are)." is an understatement because at only 4 days with you, this bird really does not know you and has been taken from the world it did know, such as it may have been and plopped down in your home. Although a training program can be started almost any time, you also need to concentrate on establishing trust with your new feathered friend, so you might want to cut back on your expectations, lest you end up with more problems.....

Our feathered friends do want to please their flock members and can often handle several training topics at once, you don't want to overwhelm it.....you're new to it, everyone in your home, including other animals, is/are new to it, it's cage is new to it, the sounds and smells of your house is new to it and the activity of your house is new to it...slow down & let it catch its breath.....

Good luck.....

 

[goalerjones]

Being high up is a comfort zone for a bird. It's generally safer in their opinion the higher up they go. My Hahns will jump ship to my wife if I'm sitting and she's standing.

 

[Birdman666]

I've never bought into that one. I think it's a myth.

"Height Dominance" explained: A bird up high that acts up because he is smart enough to know he is in a position not to be controlled, and he knows that he can get away with more.

My playstands are seven feet tall, and I am only six feet tall. My birds play on top of them all day long. Yet they don't act up when they're up there...

It's primarily a training issue, and a trust/bonding issue! In my opinion...

If they act up, they just need more work. And going up high is a privilege...

If you behave, then the answer is yes. If you don't behave then the answer is no, and you lower the object (or unscrew the playtop) until they do behave...

I generally use playtops.

 

[JerseyWendy]

I don't believe in this 'height dominance' thingy either. Birds like to see everything around them, so what better place to get a full view than the highest possible spot available? They don't care that you may need a ladder to get them back down..... :54:

 

[Birdman666]

I don't believe in this 'height dominance' thingy either. Birds like to see everything around them, so what better place to get a full view than the highest possible spot available? They don't care that you may need a ladder to get them back down..... :54:

Height is also a position of safety from predators. (Including humans. We're predators to them. Some of us are just not seen as a threat.)

The evil ones will act up when they get up high, but it's more a test of what they can get away with, than anything, in my opinion.

"Oh yeah?! I'm up here now, MAKE ME!"

If the answer is, "Okay I will..." they stop doing it.

If the answer is, the little ba$tard just suddenly started biting me... I'm leaving him alone up there to do what he wants. He can come down on his own... YOU JUST TRAINED HIM TO BITE YOU!!! SO, IS THAT HEIGHT DOMINANCE, OR "WHEN I AM UP HERE, I GET AWAY WITH WHAT EVER I WANT."

Parronting issue, in my opinion.

Mine have always preferred their "interactive human playstand" to all the others. So, I don't really have a problem with getting them to come down.

Mine also know the phrase "Knock it off!" in context. That particular command means something to them.

 

[Puck]

Thanks guys, that's really helpful! I believe you are absolutely right. Now that I've had my little brat a few weeks, I can tell he simply likes being in places high up and enjoys the playtop because it's hard for me to reach him. So I've simply stopped "giving up" when is up there and I want him down and luring him off with a seed. Sometimes it takes awhile (he knows my game--he will put ONE foot on my hand and reach for the seed, but he doesn't get it until both feet are firmly on my hand!) I think I am going to practice getting him to step up from the playtop then putting him BACK on the playtop so that he doesn't associate stepping up when on the playtop to having to leave the playtop. Then maybe he'll be a little more willing!

 

[Birdman666]

Thanks guys, that's really helpful! I believe you are absolutely right. Now that I've had my little brat a few weeks, I can tell he simply likes being in places high up and enjoys the playtop because it's hard for me to reach him. So I've simply stopped "giving up" when is up there and I want him down and luring him off with a seed. Sometimes it takes awhile (he knows my game--he will put ONE foot on my hand and reach for the seed, but he doesn't get it until both feet are firmly on my hand!) I think I am going to practice getting him to step up from the playtop then putting him BACK on the playtop so that he doesn't associate stepping up when on the playtop to having to leave the playtop. Then maybe he'll be a little more willing!

My red fronted macaw played games with me like that once (or rather, once too often. During her "I don't have to listen anymore" testing phase.) I got a wrench, and just started unscrewing her playtop. SQUAWK! PANIC! At some point, it started to get wobbly, and my arm was way, way, way more stable. So she decided, on her own, to come down.

After that, all I had to do was go get my wrench. Show her two fingers with one had, and tell her to step up, while holding the wrench in the other...

It put a rather immediate stop to the bad behaviors.

Now, of course, she would be velcro if I'd let her... getting her to come down is not exactly a problem I've had in the past decade or so...