PETG 3D printing filament

[jonelli]

Hi All,
I know all about teflon (PTFE), as we lost a love bird due to a teflon pan mishap years ago.

We have a Sun Conure now for 16 years, and I 3D print a lot, mainly with PLA which is non-toxic and safe. But I want to try another filament, mainly PETG which is a polyethylene plastic. Most of what I read online says it is also safe, but I'm not sure to trust it unless I know for sure. I know ABS is totally toxic and should never be used indoors even for humans, but even if PETG is safe for humans indoors, I just want to make sure if there's any risk for birds indoors.

I would never print next to my bird, but our bird moves around a lot, by the living room, then by the kitchen, sort of free-roaming. And the 3D printer is about 15 feet away sometimes. I would love to know if PETG is really safe or at least safe enough to print in another room, like the printer being in the bedroom and the bird is in the living room kind of thing. etc.

Again, thanks for any information.

 

[noodles123]

Ptfe/ptfoa/pfcs or Teflon should not be used in the same house. Birds have and DO die on separate floors and through closed doors.

I would not use that printer around your bird-- if you can, I would rig an extension cord and do it outside under a roof or in a shed, because even things like hot-glue and baking silicone can kill them

 

[SailBoat]

3D Printers should never be used in a home without 'industrial' level ventilation. The original technology was based on use in large open areas with active ventilation. Although product control is 'fairly' good regarding what chemical mix (pellets) is in the packaging, variation (non-specific pellets) can and do get mixed in. Hence there is no assurance that any given bag does not have off-spec pellets.

 

[charmedbyekkie]

This decision is very much based on your personal comfort level. No one has done any research on the impact of 3D printing with avian respiratory systems. While I think many of us feel comfortable with PLA (because of lower temps and its biodegradable ability), I do get worried during PETG and TPU printing (and yeah, ABS is banned in our house - plus it's not worth the stress haha).

When we print, I limit our boy's access to the room and make sure there's good airflow (without affecting the print of course). We also always have one person in the same room as the 3D printer or someone with the octoprint vid to observe anything going on with it, so we can react immediately. We never leave our boy alone in the house during a print (regardless of filament), and at night, he comes into our room to sleep (and our room is very well sealed up).

Because we've fixed up our 3D printer to be quite stable in terms of issues and rotate through the same filaments (and are comfortable with how the different colours and materials react), I feel comfortable with the measures we take - we're not playing with any unknown variables. We also have an air purifier with a screen displaying a live reading of the air quality in the room (it'll even respond immediately if we accidentally burn rice in the kitchen).

If your printer is not stable, I wouldn't. The moment something goes wrong, like your nozzle temp spikes for some reason, then it becomes a clear hazard.


Again, comfort levels. There are some people who are very conservative, banning everything and anything that could potentially kill their bird. And there are others with varying degrees of acceptable mitigated risk (a quick hair dryer usage in the bathroom, a little rare treat of human food, kisses on the beak, etc).

That being said, calibration cubes make great toys.

 

[SailBoat]

8 years ago, I was part of a study group that determined whether 3D Printers could be placed in a class room environment. At that point, none of the manufacturers recommended their use in areas that did not have proper ventilation to the outside and that the area had to have separate heating /cool, from the facility. The reasoning, at that time, was the dangers of unattended, catastrophe failure of the unit and the high likelihood of toxic smoke. Since projects would commonly run off-hours, a room in the chem lab was modified to support such use.

- As stated above, there has been no studies conducted regarding 3-D printers and Avians. That said, there are numerous studies involving "safe" plastics and their dangers when they burn. The precautions that my good friend above has provided in their use of a 3-D printer is well worth your adopting.

 

[jonelli]

Ignoring the first couple of responses, PTFE is not in question here, and there are no pellets. I've been printing PLA on the far side of the living room 24/7 for 3 years. PLA is considered safe as far as heated fumes go. PLA printing gives out a substance known as lactide, which is not toxic in nature. PLA is made from natural materials like maize and sugarcane. Which is VERY different than other plastics that can be used for 3D printing.

I am specifically interested in a newer filament, PETG, which is Polyethylene terephthalate glycol plastic. It is said to be safe as well, but I'm assuming that is for us, humans. So, I'm specifically interested in the toxicity of that material for birds.

@charmedbyekkie - Thanks for your input! I know others have said similar things as you, but I'm still looking for more real "data" for now. I have a smaller apartment and want to make sure I wouldn't be creating a serious risk. Thanks!

 

[jonelli]

Spent some more time digging around. It looks like the primary off-gas chemical of PETG filament would be something called Caprolactam. It seems like the consensus is that it is basically safe in the same room for humans but there's a risk of sensitivity to it.

I found a published study on that compound, and there's no real data on birds, but they did find it irritable to humans in different levels.

The most recent study on 3D printing filament safety I found was 2016, and they mention nylon, but not PETG specifically, but I think it's similar in off-gas.

 

[SailBoat]

Well, keep good notes as it looks like you have been and will continue to operate as normal.

Good note: Birds have been used for centuries to determine if a mine is safe for humans.

 

[noodles123]

Spent some more time digging around. It looks like the primary off-gas chemical of PETG filament would be something called Caprolactam. It seems like the consensus is that it is basically safe in the same room for humans but there's a risk of sensitivity to it.

I found a published study on that compound, and there's no real data on birds, but they did find it irritable to humans in different levels.

The most recent study on 3D printing filament safety I found was 2016, and they mention nylon, but not PETG specifically, but I think it's similar in off-gas.

I wasn't saying that PTFE was in question (it was more of a matter of heated/melted plastic-hence the other references)---I mentioned that because generally speaking, ANY melting plastics and heated perfluoroinated compounds (as well as others--such as those in hot glue) get into the air and are toxic for birds...If CERTAIN compounds can kill a bird through closed doors etc, I was trying to emphasize the fact that similar chemicals could also travel through your home (in theory, without you smelling it)...3-d printers really haven't been around that long, and while MANY non-bird people own Teflon (and then acquire birds) a relatively small percentage of the general populous owns 3-d printers...Let alone parrots AND a 3-d printer...so it's not like people would be reporting many deaths or diseases statistically.

Burning food can kill them, so can cooking fats (without burning) at higher temperatures, and so can organic essential oils (the natural/organic kind) so just because it is safe for people, doesn't mean it is definitely safe for birds...No human ever died from burned food, browning butter, perfume (well...at least not right away)...My point is, it may or may not be safe, even if it is natural....Lots of natural products that don't harm us can harm birds and you are adding heat to the situation and changing the chemical compounds. Plus, you are heating it..I mean, it's not safe to smoke tobacco or marijuana around a parrot even though both (minus any additives) are natural...some types of rubber are natural, but when heated, they still produce particles that harm birds (even if they are only just melted).

It sounds like you have already done it a lot, but there is enough research to say for sure that there are no ill-effects long-term. In the short-term, it appears to have worked out thus far.

 

[EdgesofTwilight]

I have several 3D printers and I have them in a separate part of my house that is closed off and we'll ventilated. I would not recommend printing PETG on a default printer setup in the same house as the bird because PETG requires hotter temperatures than PLA and the tube that the filament travels through from the extruder to the hotend is PTFE and with the hotter temperatures it cooks the tube and off-gases harmful fumes for your bird. You can get different hotends that the PTFE tube does not get heated and no chance of offgassing. I personally wouldn't take the chance. If you must print with it, best to keep the printer in a separate building or outdoors.


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