Pellets, the good, the bad, and why or why not use them

[Maria_Metropolis]

I'm so confused about pellets. I hear so many bad things about synthetic vitamins, and I believe almost all pellets on the market use them. That being said, almost everyone recommends them for their birds. They use cheap fillers too, as I've been reading up on ingredients for many varieties. Therefore, I'm so confused, should I use them, should I not use them? If I give my parrot a varied diet with lots of natural vitamins and minerals, do I need to use pellets?

Oh, and please do not see this as me attacking people that use pellets for their pets. I'm just extremely confused as I'm trying to figure out the proper nutrition for a baby bird. He's rather small, so I have to be even more careful because his body absorbs nutrients differently than a larger bird.

Thanks in advance.

 

[GaryBV]

Oh my Maria, I dont' think anybody will take your comments as a personal attack on pellet uers lol. My personal opinion is based on this fact: an all seed diet is unhealthy in the end - leads to liver disease and early death. An all pellet diet, although not exactly exciting, does seem to provide more balanced diet and a longer life. Most pellets do use corn, and that could be called a filler, but the same can be said for any seed mix - what is the mix mostly made up of? Filler type seeds. And there are organic pellets, such as Harrison's and Totally Organic, so there is that route. I prefer the pellet as a 'base' diet rather than seed - although I do give seeds as well, and I give soaked and sprouted seeds nearly every day. A varied diet, as you point out, is the best diet for most, although there are some very specific diets for birds like Lorikeets. I'd used a high quality pellet as the base, throw in a few seeds, and bulk up on the vegies and fruits and I don't think you can go wrong. I actually use Roudybush and Harrisons - I mix them, 2 parts Roudybush and 1 part Harrisions, mostly because Harrisions is so expensive for me. I also daily feed treats, but those treats are good pellet and seed mixes and a good diet just on their own, nutri-berries and avi-cakes, which the birds scoff down, and every other day or so fresh organic millet spray.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Please have a look at this thread, it's quite informative.
http://www.parrotforums.com/general-parrot-information/28242-ingredients-pellets.html

 

[Maria_Metropolis]

Oh my Maria, I dont' think anybody will take your comments as a personal attack on pellet uers lol. My personal opinion is based on this fact: an all seed diet is unhealthy in the end - leads to liver disease and early death. An all pellet diet, although not exactly exciting, does seem to provide more balanced diet and a longer life. Most pellets do use corn, and that could be called a filler, but the same can be said for any seed mix - what is the mix mostly made up of? Filler type seeds. And there are organic pellets, such as Harrison's and Totally Organic, so there is that route. I prefer the pellet as a 'base' diet rather than seed - although I do give seeds as well, and I give soaked and sprouted seeds nearly every day. A varied diet, as you point out, is the best diet for most, although there are some very specific diets for birds like Lorikeets. I'd used a high quality pellet as the base, throw in a few seeds, and bulk up on the vegies and fruits and I don't think you can go wrong. I actually use Roudybush and Harrisons - I mix them, 2 parts Roudybush and 1 part Harrisions, mostly because Harrisions is so expensive for me. I also daily feed treats, but those treats are good pellet and seed mixes and a good diet just on their own, nutri-berries and avi-cakes, which the birds scoff down, and every other day or so fresh organic millet spray.

I know everyone loves Harrisons, but I don't see their ingredients being vastly different from another company like Zupreem (natural pellets). Both have corn and/or soybean as the main ingredients. Here's the ingredient listing for both. Again, this is also more cause for confusion, because what makes one better than the other? Is it the manufacturing process, the organic ingredients?

ZuPreem Avian Maintenance Natural



Ingredients: Ground corn, Soybean meal, Ground wheat, Vegetable oil, Wheat germ meal, Sucrose, Dicalcium phosphate, Calcium carbonate, Ground vegetables (carrots, celery, beets, watercress and spinach), Iodized salt, DL-methionine, Choline chloride, L-lysine, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Natural mixed tocopherols, Rosemary extract, Citric acid, Canthaxanthin, Manganous oxide, Zinc oxide, Copper sulfate , Calcium iodate, Sodium selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin K Supplement, Niacin, Calcium pantothenate, Pyridoxine hydrochloride, Thiamine, Riboflavin, Folic acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Harrison’s Adult Lifetime Coarse (not happy about peanuts in there).

Ingredients: *Ground Yellow Corn, *Ground Hulless Barley, *Ground Soybeans, *Ground Shelled Peanuts, *Ground Shelled Sunflower Seeds, *Ground Lentils, *Ground Green Peas, *Ground Rice, *Ground Toasted Oat Groats, *Ground Alfalfa, Calcium Carbonate, Psyllium, Montmorillonite Clay, Spirulina, Ground Dried Sea Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Sea Salt, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, d-Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite.
*CERTIFIED ORGANIC INGREDIENT

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude protein (min.) 15%, crude fat (min.) 5.5%, crude fiber (max.) 6.5%, moisture (max.) 10%.


Thanks in advance, and thanks for the link Wendy, I'll check it out. Everyone keeps telling me that Harrison's is the best, so before I go out and buy any, I just want to make sure.

Here's Golden feast golden obles ingredients, to compare, as I was looking at Harrisons and Golden Feast.

I like that the first ingredient is Quinoa, instead of corn or soy.

This delicious gourmet formula is made by processing the following select ingredients: Quinoa, organic roasted Soy Beans, par boiled brown Rice and organic long grain brown Rice, raw Almonds, dehydrated and freeze dried vegetables composed of Carrots, sweet garden Peas, Parsley, Green Beans, Spinach, Red Garden Beets and Cabbage. Cranberries, shelled Walnuts, natural organic Agavi sweetener, organic Barley, organic Alfafa, freeze dried Banana powder, organic hulled proso Millet and white proso Millet, organic Flax seed, organic Spelt, organic Rye, Sesame seed, domestic grown Apples, dehydrated Honey, organic Chia seed, organic Kamut, organic Tricale, organic Amaranth, stabilized hulled Oats, Sunflower Kernels, organic Spinach, Fenugreek, freeze dried Raspberries, Hemp seed, organic Timothy, Ginger, Star Anise seed, Cinnamon, Fennel seed, dehydrated whole Eggs, Bee Pollen, Wheatberries, organic Echinacea powder, Cilantro, organic Red Clover Leaf powder and organic Spinach, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus fermentum fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product and dried Bifidobacterium.

Guaranteed Analysis: crude protein (min.) 17.5%; crude fat (min.) 9%; crude fiber (max.) 6%; moisture (max.) 3.5%; ash (max.) 3%

 

[Maria_Metropolis]

Now before I even buy pellets, I use three Golden feast blends, which have the following ingredients.

Australian Blend
Ingredients: Roasted Cashews, Almonds and Soybeans, Raw Sunflower Kernels, Canary Grass Seed, Japanese Millet, Canola Seed, Flax Seed, White Proso Millet, Golden German Millet, Black Sesame Seed and Natural Sesame Seed, Red Siberian Millet, Blueberries, Sterile Hemp Seed, Niger Seed, Caraway Seed, Hulled Oats, Carrots, Wheat Germ, Whole Egg Solids, Papaya, Cranberry Seeds, Cranberries, Pineapple, Cantaloupe Seed, Whole Wheat, Green Cabbage, Lettuce Seed, Wildflower Seed, Chamomile Flowers, Poppy Seed, Ground Anise Seed, Orange Peel, Soy Flour, Bentonite Crumbles, Natural Honey and Cane Molasses, Fennel Seed, Apples, Paprika, Freeze-Dried Sweet Corn and Freeze-Dried Sweet Peas, Parsley, Whole Bee Pollen, Spirulina, Spinach, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product, Natural Anise and Fruit Flavor Extracts. Does Not Contain Peanuts.

Guaranteed Analysis: crude protein (min.) 17%; crude fat (min.) 9%; crude fiber (max.) 8%; moisture (max.) 6%; ash (max.) 6%

Tropic Fruit IV ‘Bits & Pieces

Ingredients: Papaya, Pineapple, Apples, Coconut, Apricots, Carrots, Mango, Blueberries And Cranberries, Bananas, Orange Peel, Figs, Chamomile Flowers, Whole Star Anise Seed, Hibiscus Flowers, Bee Pollen And Green Cabbage, Granola (Rolled Wheat, Brown Sugar, Canola Oil, Coconut, Sweet Dairy Whey, Oat Flour, Roasted Almonds And Honey.) Natural Flavors.

Guaranteed Analysis: crude protein (min.) 6%; crude fat (min.) 12%; crude fiber (max) 13%; moisture (max.) 9%; ash (max.) 10%

Petite Hookbill legume blend

Ingredients: Canary Grass Seed, roasted unsalted Almonds, hulled Oats, Sunflower Kernels, white proso Millet, Cantaloupe Seed, natural Sesame Seed, Black Sesame Seed, roasted Soybeans, roasted rolled Corn, sterile Hemp Seed, roasted unsalted Cashews, Cranberries, Blueberries and Goji Berries, Japanese Millet, freeze dried Honey, freeze dried Molasses Flakes, Pineapple, Mango, Red Siberian Millet, Green Cabbage, Granola made with whole Wheat, Brown Sugar, Canola Oil, natural Coconut, Sweet Dairy Whey, Oat Flour, roasted Almonds and Honey. Fine Cracked Corn, Wildflower Seeds, Canola Seeds, Caraway Seeds, Carrots, freeze dried Sweet Corn, Cherries, cooked and dehydrated assorted Beans, Parsley, Dates, Papaya, Basil, Soy Nuts, Pecans, Wheat Germ, Bee Pollen, Cranberry Seeds, Orange Peel Granules, Bentonite Crumbles, natural Fruit Flavors.

Guaranteed Analysis: crude protein (min.) 14%; crude fat (min.) 12%; crude fiber max 9%; moisture (max.) 6%; ash (max.) 9%

Twin Beaks Aviary herb salad (I sprinkle a little of this in his food).

Twin Beaks® Aviary - Animal self-medication - Natural, Organic and Holistic wellness for your pets.

Therefore, is it necessary to even give him pellets?

 

[GaryBV]

Hi Maria If I HAD to answer your question 'Therefore, is it necessary to even give him pellets?' - I would say yes. And here is why: I know every bird I have had has been relatively selective in what foods, seeds and treats they eat. They have as many likes and dislikes as any human I know. Also, mine have been very sloppy eaters, wasting as much, if not more, than they eat. How much nutritiion are they really getting? The bottom line for me is that most pellets are forumlated to contain a full diet including vitamins and minerals, etc. No other food we feed our birds can make that claim. I would give my bird pellets if for no other reason but to 'round out' his diet and try to make sure he was getting all the nutrients he needs.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

A few differences between Zupreem and Harrison's are pretty significant. Harrison's uses organic veggies and corn, organic corn is much healthier. Also the cooking methods are different, zupreem is cooked at a much higher temperature. This literally destroys some of the nutrients. Harrison's is cooked at a much lower temp, which helps preserve all that goodness. Also while looking at the ingredients take notice that Harrison's has more recognizable foods in it. Alfalfa is full of great nutrients, as well as other other organics veggies and foods

If you decide to get Harrison's check out the super fine pellets, they have less protein designed for smaller birds like budgies and cockatiels.

Also totally organic recently came out with crumbles, a smaller form of their normal pellets. TOPS has no added vitamins, and a amazing I ingredients list. Plus it's inexpensive.

 

[Caesar]

Hi Maria
I think in previous posts I've mentioned my ekkies diet.
He gets 2 tablespoons of pellets in his cage per night (as pellets and water expand making the bird feel full) so before I uncover him in the morning I normally have his meal ready or there's hell to pay:32: with him demanding it asap. Mornings I give him mostly steamed vegies some mashed and some crunchy. I give him corn every second day as it is a high energy food. I return him to his play area which I have GREEN leafy morsels for him to forage for(celery, bock Choy) also RoudyBush treats in SMART toys to keep him entertained.
In the afternoon remembering he has only had 2 tablespoons of pellets and LIGHT watery vegies I give him a fruit plater and Dragons fruit pomegranates grapes cucumber just to mention a few. And about a tablespoon of healthy sprouted seed(be careful with sprouted seeds you may have to do a bit of research on this)they can get toxic if not prepared correctly.
I hope I have helped in some way with your problem

 

[Maria_Metropolis]

A few differences between Zupreem and Harrison's are pretty significant. Harrison's uses organic veggies and corn, organic corn is much healthier. Also the cooking methods are different, zupreem is cooked at a much higher temperature. This literally destroys some of the nutrients. Harrison's is cooked at a much lower temp, which helps preserve all that goodness. Also while looking at the ingredients take notice that Harrison's has more recognizable foods in it. Alfalfa is full of great nutrients, as well as other other organics veggies and foods

If you decide to get Harrison's check out the super fine pellets, they have less protein designed for smaller birds like budgies and cockatiels.

Also totally organic recently came out with crumbles, a smaller form of their normal pellets. TOPS has no added vitamins, and a amazing I ingredients list. Plus it's inexpensive.

Thanks to everyone for their comments!

Copperarabian,
I hear parrots don't like Harrisons and I have a picky eater. Do people seem to have more luck with TOPS?

 

[JerseyWendy]

Maria, I may just have found another VERY helpful thread for you.

http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...7-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html

 

[DallyTsuka]

having a diet too high in pellets for the small bird is actually just as bad as an all seed diet. too much protein can kill the kidneys in the long term outlook of things, so an all pellet diet is a no-no with small parrots like cockatiels, lovebirds, and budgies. you want a higher ratio of seed compared to pellets (20-30% pellets in the diet) and a good variety of grains and veggies) basically, as much variety as you possibly can, but watch how much pellets you give to a cockatiel, they should not have more than 50% tops in their diet portion.


brand wise, most will recommend harrisons as the best pellet out there for quality.

however, in the end, a pellet brand is useless if the bird refuses it at all costs. sometimes you have to settle for other brands. the best pellet for your bird is one that it will eat.


i'd try a few brands, a few sizes and see what one catches your birds interest best.


i had tried for a long long time to get the lovebirds eating pellets. i kept trying them on hagen tropican. but they despised it. switched over to zupreem and all my flock eat it. we've tried harrisons, they much prefer their zupreem and do not eat enough of the harrisons for my satisfation and they dont seem to enjoy eating it.

but others find their bird loves harrisons. so keep trying different ones

 

[Maria_Metropolis]

He'll eat crushed zupreem naturals, but now I hear those aren't that great.

 

[GaryBV]

Hi Maria - How about you get a small package of the pellets you would like to see and try. I do know that if you email some of the manufacturers they will send you a sample - I know for a fact that Roudybush will, and Harrison's will, Totally Organics will not, and some other manufactuers will send you a coupon instead. That way you can see for yourself what you like and what your bird likes. One company (TOP) told me they don't send samples because it's not enough to change a bird over, but they fail to realize they also have to satisfy ME, I want to SEE them, and SMELL them, and EXAMINE them. Give it a try and see what your bird likes. I give my birds 2 parts Roudybush and 1 part Harrisons, and it works well. With any diet change you just have to have patience and be consistent. It can take months.

 

[WannaBeAParrot]

I was looking for an alternative to pellets because Pritti has ployuria and decreased kidney function, so the a-vet said pellets are not usually good in that situation. So we went the all natural food route, which was crazy crazy. So, recently Pritti started eating and loving Caitec Oven Fresh Bites.. It is hard to find retail, but easy enough online. His a-vet read the ingredients and said it's fine. In fact, I believe it stopped his polyuria.

From Caitec's website:
What Makes Oven Fresh Bites™ Bird Food Different?

Unlike other parrot food, Oven Fresh Bites™ bird food does not utilize corn or wheat as the primary source of dietary energy and protein. Oven Fresh Bites™ parrot food is baked and uses wholesome ingredients that offer a variety of nutrients and textures such as Oatmeal and Sunflower Meal. Natural parrot or bird food has been tried and tested by bird and parrot owners alike.

No added sugar
No artificial coloring
No artificial flavors
No chemical preservatives used in the baking process.

Medium and Large Avians: All Natural Bird Food Ingredient List:
Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min) 15.0%
Crude Fat (min) 6.0%
Crude Fiber (max) 4.0%
Moisture (max) 10.0%

Natural bird food ingredient list: Oat Flour, White Millet Flour, Oatmeal, Sunflower Oil, Sunflower Meal, Sunflower Chips, Soybean Meal, Glycerine, Dried Egg Product, Mixed Feed Nuts, Freeze Dried Papaya, Banana Chips, Cranberries, Wheat Germ Meal, Lentils,Barley Flour, Peanut Meal, Natural Flavors, Dicalcium Phosphate, Cayenne Pepper, Alfalfa Meal, Marigold Meal, Calcium Carbonate, Oyster Shell, Peas, Carrots, Blueberries, Apples, L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, L-Threonine, DL-Methionine, Methylsulfonylmethane, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Proteinate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Essential Oils, Herbs and Spices, Saponins, Wheat Meal, Yucca Extract, Silicon Dioxide, Potassium Iodide, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K Activity), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate

Human Allergy Information: Contains Nuts, Eggs, and Soy Ingredients. Not for human consumption.

 

[BoomBoom]

WBAP,

Interesting find! Does it come in pellet form?

 

[WannaBeAParrot]

BB,
The middle size is like a pretzel nugget size. The small size is more like the size of a zupreem natural nugget, medium size. Originally he had the small size, then I accidentally ordered two bags of the medium size on Amazon. So I break them in half and put them in his dish when I'm not too lazy. Only because there is too much waste otherwise. The small size is better for him and would be for the right size for Boomer too. But I think i found a way to salvage the fresh "waste". I took some warm fresh cooked sweet potatoe and roled it in the crumbles, like coconut covered chocolate balls, lol. He liked them.

 

[BoomBoom]

I was going to make the switch from Zupreem natural to Harrison's at the end of the month, but maybe ill had a look at Pritti's food since it's vet approved and seems to have gentler ingredients. I'll have boomer sample both maybe.

 

[Kalidasa]

Mine gets sick of a brand after a while, so I rotate Harrison's spicy and those oven bites mention by wannabeparrot. I just emailed golden feast for a sample of their golden oldies or whatever and they replied immediately and are sending them, their ingredients are way better then Harrison's. if I can get him to eat them is another story . I agree with dailytsuka that smaller birds benefit more from a less pellet heavy diet. I look at them as something to fill in the gaps. I feed my conure pellets first thing in the morning, then veggies, a green, then fruit. Pellets comprise about 20% of his diet, with the rest being organic fresh produce nuts and some seeds. And he eats lots of pollen, he could fill his whole crop with pollen if I let him. It's a great natural supplement.

 

[DallyTsuka]

zupreem isnt "bad" just perhaps not as high quality as say harrisons or roudybush. my birds do very well on the zupreem and i've noticed a LOT of good improvements with them than i saw when they were on the tropican. i'm seeing a lot better feathers and its a pellet my lovebirds will actually eat. and my tiels go nuts for them. they had harrisons for a bit and they just stuck their tongues out at it, the only one who ate it regularly was tsuka and he much prefers zupreem still. i got their zupreem back and the poor tiels booked it to the newly refilled dish as if they were starved!


in the end, if you can only end up getting your tiel to eat zupreem, its not the end of the world, its still better for him than just seed but if he likes them crushed up, he might go for the harrisons super fine. its very very very tiny, so tiny its smaller than millet seeds!


a great way to try to get them used to a taste is to make a birdie bread out of it. i plan on doing that with what remains of my harrisons superfine. if they like the birdie bread, you can make them get their pellets through the birdie bread, or you can start increasing the amount of new pellets you give them in replacement of the old ones.



but yes, pellets should fill a gap in the diet. the rest basically should be super varied. its almost impossible to have a perfectly balanced diet in the avian world... so we must work our best at giving them a very varied diet and use pellets to fill any gaps we cant quite cover

 

[getwozzy]

I feed chili mainly fresh fruits and veggies, chop mix, and some seeds here and there. Chili will NOT eat pellets for the life of me...which I don't blame her. So! I make birdie bread and each batch has finely ground pellets mixed in. She gets a chunk of birdie bread every day so at least she's getting her pellets somehow...even if I have to be sneaky lol