Pellets containing menadione.

[SimplyBirdLover]

So I was doing some research on parrot dues and I can across he fact tha Roudybush, Zupreem and many other bird food brands actually contain menadione. This absolutely shocked me because I use Roudybush pellets for my parakeets and I use Zupreem for my cockatiels and conure. I’m not going to lie, at first I was like “how bad could it be? If they are putting it in bird foods then it must be safe and have some sort of benefits.” Then I started doing more research into it and immediately took away all of their pellets. Why are they still able to put it in parrot foods if it’s banned in human food in the U.S? If you could all give me some more information on this it would be VERY much appreciated. Why are so many people still using the Zupreem and Roudybush brands?(those are the more popular ones that I know contain it.) Is there something I’m missing? Can I continue the use of these pellets?

 

[SimplyBirdLover]

I also just found out that nutriberries contain it as well. I feel like I’m not seeing the big picture here. Is it safe?

 

[Flboy]

Another reason for TOPS products, no added anything!

 

[Inger]

I have no idea about the safety of this Vitamin K product.

I did notice when I google it several websites refer to it as synthetic compound, but Wikipedia refers to it as an organic compound (with citations).

Again, no representation about safety; just a reminder that the internet is filled with junk science and personal opinions presented as facts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SailBoat]

This subject is one that has may sides to it and if one follows the general time line of discussion, the Vet / Medical community can be seen to switch their positions of add this product! One of the more recent discussions can be seen at:

Menadione: Does YOUR Pet's Food Contain This Toxic Vitamin?

Clearly the title defines the direction that our Vets and their supporting medical science groups are heading.

At the rate that the CAV and their support science groups are heading, manufactures will likely follow. When is a question that does not seem to be well defined as of this moment.

FYI: When you link to the above, it may indicate that the link does not exist. If you chick the 'return or back' arrow for your search engine, it will connect the video of the interview. NOTE: There are two product based view points on this subject! Take care and assure you get both sides prior to making a final choice.

 

[Scott]

First I've heard of this controversy. Did some preliminary research and found plenty of negative articles. One states Menadione is the only approved Vitamin K supplement for dog and cat foods.

As others suggest, it is important to research from several different angles as the internet is filled with a huge array of very convincing arguments.

 

[Teddscau]

I know a bit about this controversy. It's a shame that this compound is used as a vitamin K supplement, since, as far as I know, no species needs ver much vitamin K. From my understanding of things, most foods contain vitamin K in sufficient enough quantities that supplementation isn't required, even with processed foods. In theory, vitamin K deficiency is possible, but it isn't really a thing. It'd be like someone in sunny Florida having freaking rickets. Well, if you're an albino, I can understand not getting enough vitamin D from the sun, but being an albino, I'd imagine you'd be taking vitamin D supplements.

Anyways, I think vitamin K deficiency has been linked to some sort of weird illness macaws get. It may or may not be called macaw wasting disease? But seriously, I can't imagine anyone suffering from vitamin K deficiency. It'd be like a cat having vitamin C deficiency. It just isn't a thing that should ever happen. It'd be like a North American suffering from salt deficiency. Okay, enough with the analogies.

Anyways, IF an animal (human or otherwise) is suffering from vitamin K deficiency, they SHOULD NOT take menadione (menadione goes by a billion different names). Like, parrots need something like 0.4 MICROGRAMS of vitamin K for every 50g of dry feed (i.e., pellets). Want to know what has vitamin K? Pretty much every food on the planet. As long as your bird eats something besides just seeds and nuts, they aren't going to suffer from vitamin K deficiency. Seriously, pretty much every vegetable is bursting with vitamin K. For 7g of parsley, your bird will consume well over 10000% of their daily value of vitammin K. And that's me being extremely conservative. Also, vitamin K is fat soluble, so seriously, unless your birds litterally eat nothing but seed, they should be fine.

However, I don't think there's necessarily anything inherently wrong with menadione. It's just that, due to the fact that it's a different form than that found in food, the body treats it differently. It's impossible to overdose on naturally occurring vitamin K, but menadione, on the other hand, is extremely easy to OD on. The reason it isn't used with humans is because the average human is too stupid to not end up in the ER from taking it. However, that doesn't mean it's harmful when used responsibly. Just think of all the people who end up in the ER because they have foreign objects lodged inside of them. Like, come on guys, you should know better than to do that with an egg whisk! But seriously, the average human is not to be trusted with anything that they can ingest, fit inside their body (wonder how many people have stuck matches up their noses), fit their limbs inside of, put over their head, wrap around their neck, crush themselves with... So, no, the average consumer should not be going anywhere near menadione...or matches.

However, that brings up the question of formulated diets. When it comes to nutrition, nobody has a clue about it. No, not even nutritionists. The whole thing's extremely confusing, not to mention political. What we know about nutrition is inherently flawed and unethical studies involving the intentional deprivation and oversupplimentation of various nutrients in animals (chickens, cockatiels, mice, etc.), POWs, children in orphanages, children in Residential Schools, black neighbourhoods, etc. These horrific studies tell us that, hey, cockatiels die agonizing deaths when intentionally fed deadly amounts of zinc. Or, hey, deprive a being of pretty much any vitamin and they're going to suffer from brain damage and bleed everywhere! Plus, a lot of animal studies involve animals who are being studied in barren enclosures (stressful), are almost genetically identical (lab animals and farm animals are extremely inbred to obtain uniformity in order to eliminate variables related to genetics), are kept in either filthy conditions (farm animals) or unnaturally sterile conditions (mice, rats, rabbits, etc), and are often expected to gain weight unnaturally fast (chickens, pigs, cows, turkeys) and constantly reproduce/lay eggs/pump out milk (cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, etc.). Plus, in studies involving rodents, those results have little bearing on the average being who lives more than a year (rodents live extremely short lives, plus lab animals are killed long before reaching old age), since we can't see the true long term results of having more or less of nutrient X. Who names, maybe consuming exactly the ideal daily requirement of each nutrient is UNHEALTHY for you. Maybe, just maybe, our bodies are designed to go through cycles of over abundance and deficiency with each nutrient and each ratio of nutrient L and nutrient P. Our bodies (or any species') aren't exactly designed to always be consuming the ideal amount of each nutrient. Everybody's unique, and since humans, parrots, and many other species consume extremely varied diets, our bodies are built to make the most of what we eat. Does this mean you should intentionally deprive yourself or your animals of certain nutrients? No, of course not.

We can't even begin to understand how different nutrients or compounds within our food are affected by our genetic makeup, body chemistry, stress, hormone levels, body condition (ovulation, extra exercise, etc.). I say, aim for the minimum (not optimum amount of nutrient X, but not such a low amount as to cause deficiency). Some days they'll consume a lot of vitamin but not quite enough calcium, other days they'll have a little more calcium than they should and too much B5. So long as everything balances out over time, everything should be fine. Assuming we stick to a minimum daily goal for each nutrient. Meh, I'm probably just making all this up, but I think that's basically how nutrition works. It's prolonged deficiency of one or more nutrients that causes problems. The same goes for prolonged overconsumption of one or more nutrients. Except, seriously, don't eat carnivore livers. You will die from all that vitamin A 0x0

Oh, right, so the thing with formulated diets (i.e., pellets made with a few fillers and a bunch of synthetic vitamins), is that we have to trust that the manufacturer knows what it's doing. Can you trust them enough to feed your bird this food every single day of their life? Are you positive that the company puts only the required amount of iron in their food? Did you know that most brands put dangerously high levels of iron in their food? This happens with cats, dogs, rodents, birds, reptiles, etc. Can you trust that there's not too much vitamin D? Synthetic vitamin D can cause serious health issues if oversupplemented. Remember all those baby birds who died from deadly levels of vitamin D in Kaytee's handrearing formula? Are you sure there's enough vitamin A in that pellet for your bird who's prior guardians allowed them to suffer from vitamin A deficiency for over a decade.

There's many pros and cons to feeding formulated diets. In theory, your bird's getting the same amount of each nutrient in each bite. And they should be getting their daily requirements. The longer your particular species lives, the more likely they are to develop nutritional problems. Maybe that formulated food you've been feeding, while possessing a "safe" and "healthy" amount of protein, has ever so slightly too much protein in it for YOUR bird, and after decades of consuming exactly the same level of protein, your 50 year old bird now is suffering from kidney problems. Know what I'm saying? That's the danger of unvarying uniformity. And a formulated diet basically guarantees uniformity (except when something goes wrong, and then you end up with dead baby birds). A formulated diet assumes every animal belongs to the same species, is the same size, same gender, same activity level, and are basically genetic clones. But, back before pellets were a thing, thousands of birds died prematurely due to nutrient imbalances.

Oh, totally got off topic. So, is menadione safe? It depends. Are you positive the brand you're buying has tons of safety measures in place to prevent unhealthy levels of menadione from being added? Ask yourself this: has this brand ever had a recall due to pathogen contamination (E. coli, salmonella), contamination from foreign objects (paint chips, rust, glass, screws, bone chunks, staples), biological contamination (feces, severed limb, mice, shellfish, onion, hair), or contamination with known poisons (rat poison, formaldehyde, arsenic, mercury, etc.)? For me, I believe in feeding a varied diet rather than feeding only one or two foods. This helps prevent the build up of toxins, helps prevent nutrient deficiencies, helps prevent vitamin toxicity, etc. So, you could get away with feeding 1/3 pellets that contain menadione, and the rest a variety of vegetables, fruit, seeds, nuts, flowers, sprouts, and animal protein (depending on your species; insects, egg, dairy in the form of cheese and sugar-free yogurt, meat, etc.). But you have to make sure it balances out over time. For some birds, having them exclusively on a formulated diet is ideal. For others, having them on an exclusively wholefood, varied diet is best. It depends on the animal, their caretakers knowledge concerning nutrition, and a whole lot of luck.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Fascinating. Wow.

Harrison's states they have no menadione or similar.
Harrison?s ? Responses to Recent Inquiries. | Harrison's Bird Foods
That's been the Rb's pellet for 30-plus years.

Thanks for raising this issue to the surface.