Out of ideas

[GraciesMom]

Hi all,
I'm hoping someone may have some insight or thoughts about Gracie's thirst problem. She still will not drink water out of a bowl or water bottle, I've tried several kinds, tried moving positions etc (the few times she used them she chokes on the water). Since she is with me all day I have the advantage of watching & knowing she doesn't go near her water bowls/bottles.

When she was afraid of water I credited that as being the problem and because she ate fresh veggies/fruits I didn't worry & I figured she wasn't thirsty enough to want additional water. Now that she isn't afraid of water and actually loves her showers & misting and plays in the water I can see she is always thirsty.

The vet did have me increase to daily showers 2 weeks ago & now I'm actually noticing just how thirsty she is... in the shower I have to position her so she doesn't drink too much or she regurgitates or chokes herself on it.
If I mist her she positions herself to catch the water and begs/cries for more, more more again have to be careful or she chokes herself. She really fights me to get to the water sources and binge herself.

With all of her health issues we've run every test that should have uncovered a cause if it was medically related. Since her urine output is high the vet wasn't as concerned because she is obviously getting fluids from her diet.

She does eat fresh veggies & fruits and is only now starting to actually try pellets so I know she gets water there BUT this is a reallly, really thirsty bird. She is still really picky and not eating nearly enough variety even though I continue to try different things.

Since it's getting warmer here I've started placing her on the sink throughout the day & letting the water trickle out and every time she acts like she is dying of thirst. Again, I have to monitor closely because she will regurgitate or choke on it.

If I wash my hands and don't dry them right away she will actually try and lick the water off of my hands. She'll knock over a cup to lick up the water with the tip of her tongue but won't drink out of the cup. She'll use the tip of her tongue to get the condensation off of a cup or container.

She sucks the water out of cooked veggies, she licks water off of the bottom of her dishes yet still she acts thirsty as all get out.

Being this thirsty I can't for the life of me understand why she won't drink out of a bowl of water or has so much trouble controlling/drinking that she chokes/regurgitates. Actually I can't really understand why she is soo thirsty all of the time period.

We do have a follow up appointment on Friday and we'll discuss this again but I have a feeling the vet is going to be at a loss too. I just figured I'd put it out there maybe someone had this experience before.

Usually I can play Google detective and find something relevant somewhere but nope it appears as if all other parrots have mastered the basic skill of drinking (without choking or regurgitating the water).

Right now I am watching her actually trying to lick the water thru the glass water bottle

 

[Pinkbirdy]

That is so strange ? I would be doing what your doing [I cant think of anything else].Keep watching her droppings [like you are] that will tell you . I would keep taking her to the sink.

 

[GraciesMom]

Yep it's strange... everything about her has been including all of her tests etc.
I watch them and hafta photograph them for the vet between visit (my camera roll is gross lol). It's just so weird I can literally dribble water on a surface from a bowl or any container of water (that's shes been ignoring) and she will frantically lap up the drops while avoiding the containers then beg for more.

I wish I could see into her strange lil mind.

 

[Piasa]

That sounds heartbreaking.. I have no experience and haven't heard about anything similar before.

Can you give her crushed ice or something that is a slow-release? Maybe you can get some inspiration from methods for humans on dialysis that can't drink water.

For sure she is choking on the water and not regurgitating/vomiting it?

If you have CBC results to look at, you can tell by the PCV if she is dehydrated. Anything over 55.

I am so so sorry to hear about how hard it is for you and Gracie right now. You are an incredible parront.

 

[Piasa]

I had another thought.

My Beau became dehydrated, how I noticed was his poops were dry like they weren't fresh. He would strain to go, and sometimes would poop twice in a row. It took a couple weeks to rehydrate him without the vet administering fluids. He also cried incessantly (but for food, not water).

I mostly gave him homemade smoothies, fruit veg and ice. Lots of beet juice, some ginger, carrot juice, blueberries, cherries. I focused on foods that flush the kidneys and settle the stomach. You might want to focus on others for Gracie's particular needs.

If you can make thick puree, maybe she can swallow?

 

[GraciesMom]

I've been doing pureed/smoothie/juice veggies mixed in with her veggies/grains etc. since I got her & that seemed to work for a few weeks then she started rejecting anything that had puree in the mix (you could always tell she didn't love the taste of any of the puree combinations). I am still trying to get her to accept the purees back since she is such a horrible eater it was the only way she was getting the really good veggies in her (left to her own devices and she'd eat only cooked carrots and corn).

No to baby food or anything like that mixed in. No to mashed anything (even sweet potatoes). No to any birdie breads (I lost count of the amount of receipts I've tried). She will lick up diluted fruit juice from the bowl but that's not ideal. She isn't liking or accepting anything cold .. no ice, no cold veggies, no cold water. no popsicles, no to frozen fruits.

She definitely regurgitates it at times, spits it out without swallowing at other times and has gone at it so fast that she's starts to choke then throws it up. To prevent that I slow the shower down to trickling and control the water so she can't catch it and guzzle takes longer but it's scary to watch her guzzle like that.

She's been a pill when it comes to eating and drinking since the day I got her but she's definitely getting more and more difficult.

I'll check into the dialysis angle see if I can come up with any other ideas. Thanks!

 

[Jerseyjeff62]

Have you tried bottled not tap water?

 

[BIRDIGIRL]

This thread about Gracies thirst problem actually reminds me a little of the way Mr Biggles acted when he came here first in Jan. He had problems with his water bowl...actually he had problems with both food and water bowls for a couple of days but even after he mastered the food bowl he had problems for a long time and couldnt drink properly from his water bowl and when he did try a couple of times he seemed as if he had swallowed it the wrong way...for ages I fed him his water off a desert spoon...I was beginning to think he would never drink from a bowl but one day he surprised me and he has been drinking perfectly from his bowl since without any choking problems. Mr Biggles had a respiratory infection which I think could have contributed to his drinking problem which may have caused his fear of the water bowl and once that infection cleared up and he learned to drink from his bowl again he was fine...I kept feeding him his water by spoon several times a day and to encourage him to drink from his water bowl I didnt fill it in fact initially I just put a little water in it and I think that may have helped him to lose his fear of drinking out of the bowl once he was going to the bowl to drink I slowly increased the water volume in the bowl...it took 3 weeks to a month before he was drinking out of the bowl...he even bathes in his bowl now Hope Gracie also learns to drink from her bowl soon.

 

[Aquila]

I agree that it could be a respiratory problem or possibly a swallowing problem. You can also try and take some frozen berries and float them in her water bowl to get her interested. You can also try diluting some fruit juice in her water, or giving her wet lettuce that she can luck water off of in her bowl. Try to keep all water sources in the same area/bowl so she can associate it and I'm sure she'll be fine.

 

[Piasa]

Maybe when you see the vet tomorrow, you can ask about subQ fluids. Would be worth it to keep her from getting too dehydrated, even if it isn't a fix for the problem, it might buy you some time to figure out a better way to give water and make Gracie a little more comfortable.

The increased thirst might be linked to Gracie's heart issues.

I attended a lecture on avian heart issues not long ago, my take aways that may help in a holistic way -
treatments follow human guidelines
exercise is the most important thing to change/do. Start very slow, stop when she pants, but be consistent in having her do something
get off fatty diet
Vit E important, CoQ10, dandelion, taurine
sunshine

Happy to share my notes with you if you'd like them.

Do you have a humidity gauge? can try to keep her room humidified so she isn't losing fluids that way.

Does she like/prefer warm water? You could try warming the puree to make it more appealing if so.

It's maddening when you try everything and nothing works. Stay strong.

 

[Birdman666]

That's a new one on me...

I suspect that she's trying to down too much at once, and is gagging herself. "Well, maybe if you'd drink more like a normal bird that wouldn't happen." So now the bird is nervous, because it keeps happening - only the bird is doing it to herself...

This ranks up there with Tusk flying straight and level into the second story of the house across the street. "What, did you think the house was going to duck, and let you fly by it? Could you not see that great big a wall directly in your path?" He bounced off it. I quite literally had to catch him as he fell... AND HE HAD THE NERVE TO LOOK SURPRISED, LIKE, WHO PUT THAT THERE?! CAGS are quirky sometimes...

I have a tiny bowl that I use when I give my birds fruit juice. Maybe offer something like apple juice, in something like that, a couple of times a day, just to insure she isn't dehydrated? It's shallower, so they only get a little bit at a time, and have to work at it.

And then maybe you can switch from apple juice to water over time.

Just a thought.

 

[miloslave]

Can you possibly set up some kind of fountain thing where water are pumped with one of those fish tank pumps? Water in at the top almost like a tap would do for her? Then flow to outside and then pumped back to the top?

Lol, I have this picture in my mind, but so difficult to explain.

Mom to Charlie and Milo

 

[GraciesMom]

I was going to post a new thread then I remembered I had reached out a while ago for ideas on Gracie's bizarre drinking issues & thought I'd post here instead.

Honestly, I can't tell you what corrected it. I tried and failed at multiple ideas etc. and just resigned myself to a watchful eye & keeping her hydrated by hand. A pain but it's been the only effective solution .... just became the norm. Over the last few weeks Gracie has started to really let go of what I can only call her water phobia by bathing in her water dish - however she still wasn't drinking out of one.
The only thing I can figure is that once she wasn't fearing water - she stopped rushing, gagging, regurgitating etc. like Mark suggested.

Then as I was just working at my computer next to her cage I captured this...

[ame="https://youtu.be/frKPRDfZB64"]Surprise Mama[/ame]

This is the first time in almost 5 mths. that Gracie has successfully drank from a water bowl... no sign of fear or urgency, no regurgitating.

I've watched Gracie overcome a lot since she's been here but I gotta say this one just brought massive tears of joy... it feels like she's shedding the last remnants of a horrible past. Might seem like a small thing to some but trust me this is a HUGE achievement for her. Never give up on them ... they can & will surprise you

It doesn't get better than this feeling ... looks like my job as watering can is no longer needed ))) I've been fired ... happily!

I want to thank you all for your innovative ideas & support

 

[GaleriaGila]

No new thoughts here, but a LOT of admiration and hope and encouragement.
Patagonian hugs!

 

[Terry57]

Kelly, this almost brings me to tears. I had missed this thread the first time around and am so glad you posted this update on it. This is just amazing, you have done wonders with her, just by letting her get over her fears in her own time. You are an inspiration, and proof that patience pays off.

 

[BIRDIGIRL]

This is so wonderful given her history of fear...Well done Gracie...judging by this and her other bath time videos Gracie is turning into quiete the fun loving Water Baby...Well Done Gracie and well done Graciesmom you have worked wonders for Gracie by helping her to slowly overcome her fear...what a joy now to see her so at home with water bowls and water...Great Video I enjoyed every minute of it

 

[GaleriaGila]

Whewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!

 

[GraciesMom]

Kelly, this almost brings me to tears. I had missed this thread the first time around and am so glad you posted this update on it. This is just amazing, you have done wonders with her, just by letting her get over her fears in her own time. You are an inspiration, and proof that patience pays off.

Thank you so much Terry - I really appreciate all of your support you've been a godsend thru some tough & scary times
Gracie deserves all the credit - no small feat to face & overcome fears born by abuse.

This is so wonderful given her history of fear...Well done Gracie...judging by this and her other bath time videos Gracie is turning into quiete the fun loving Water Baby...Well Done Gracie and well done Graciesmom you have worked wonders for Gracie by helping her to slowly overcome her fear...what a joy now to see her so at home with water bowls and water...Great Video I enjoyed every minute of it

Thanks so much You can call me Kelly, Graciesmom is a mouthful.
It's so heartwarming to see her enjoying it.
I know I've gone "Bath time/ water time" video crazy lately but I'm just a really proud parront! So glad you've enjoyed them.

Whewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!

Took the words right out of my mouth lol


If anyone runs across this thread I hope the message they take away is disciplining a parrot doesn't work - it just creates fear & mistrust. Think before you act - they aren't dogs, cattle, cats, snakes etc.
Something like a forced water spraying/misting/ dunking a parrot etc. can cause something like this to happen. No animal should fear to this extent.

Patience wouldn't have been required to help her thru it if her original owners hadn't just had the patience to help her learn/adjust without disciplining/punishing/abusing her

Never give up

 

[GaleriaGila]

Amen to all above... birds are different... majestic, mysterious, magical.
They aren't mammals!
They hatch out of EGGZSZSZSZ!
They must be understood as avians, not "disciplined" according to mammalian traditions.