One step forward...one bite back...venting

[RiosMom]

So I was really encouraged by my progress with Rio and her nipping/biting. I really am trying to understand where this is coming from! After changing the location of her cage, getting new foraging toys, target training with her and giving her the choice to interact... Things were going very well. Then, I worked yesterday (substitute teacher) and came back from work and she was upset with me. We did some training, I spent time with her (but scratches have to be very quick since her hormones are up and running strong). She was crabby, but ok.

This morning she would not step up without a stick, but wanted out...no problem as I did not want a bite! I went downstairs, we did some training and I let her be on her play stand. After 20 minutes she flew to me and I interacted with her...all good. I went upstairs with her on my head (favorite place) and I was chatting with my daughter. My daughter left to grab a shower and bam, she bit me on the eyebrow fairly hard. I put my finger up for her to step up and got a hard bite. I took her upstairs for a timeout in her cage. She calmed down after a while,called for me to get her and I waited to calm down myself. I took her out again with the stick and she was very grumpy. She was not happy and did not want interaction with me.

I would think she was wanting my daughter, but when she got her she flew away from her! Should I chalk this up to hormones? Any advice? If I put her in her cage for a timeout she gets angrier and until this spring was a gentle bird. Ahhhh, I wish she could speak and tell me what's going on in her beautiful little head!

 

[parrotsaremypassion]

Some go up and down in regards to their behavior. I have a GCC and he is Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde. It's just the way he is. Hercules, my GCC, is now biting me in order for me to pay attention to him and stop typing. As with all parrots, some things you may be able to change and some things will stay the same. Parrots are a wild animal and you have to love them unconditionally even if they bite you. It sounds like your doing a good job. It may be just the time of year. I applaud your efforts.

 

[weco]

How old is Rio? When did she start her Jekyll & Hyde persona? It very well could be raging hormones.....

 

[Kalidasa]

One place I never ever allow my birds is on my head, it puts them in a position over you, and therefore in a more dominant position. Some people say not even on the shoulder, but I disagree with that, although in your case maybe not even that until he proves himself.
Try refusing him access to your head (at least), he'll probably be pretty mad but he'll get over it. He needs to know his place in the "flock", and that is definately not at the top. Birds get horrible power trips, and ultimately, everyone suffers.
I'm just maybe offering another perspective.

 

[RiosMom]

Sorry for the lateness of replies...my daughter is graduating high school!

@ parrotsaremypassion....thanks for the reply. I do love her to pieces, but the trust I had with her has definitely taken a blow. She is just so angry (leaving her in her cage makes her angrier) and I miss the ease of companionship we had. I'm accepting what she is willing to offer nicely, turning away from the aggression or putting her away for a bite, and praying that I can understand where it's coming from. It is exhausting sometimes!

@weco...she just turned 3 so I do think hormones are playing a big part. Some have said they just leave their parrots alone in the cage for this behavior until they start being nice, but she seems angrier if I leave her in her cage. Any advice on if it is hormones? She is in a dark, quiet room from 9 pm until 8:30 am. No warm mushy foods, great diverse diet with sprouted seeds...clicker training that is working well, but she will just randomly bite me after she has sweetly stepped up.

@kalidasa...she hasn't been allowed on my head since the last bite on my eyebrow. I allow her to perch on my knee only, since hands will get bitten in general. She accepts treats from my hands, will target train over my hands and will allow beak petting with no aggression. However, no scratching, stepping up etc.

This week is wacky with a lot of graduation activities, new people in the house and I'm trying to maintain a semblance of a schedule. I'm leaving town next week, which she really hates and I'm dreading the redoubling of "hatred" that I think is coming when I get back. Sigh...I miss my bird buddy.

 

[MagegrayWolf]

One place I never ever allow my birds is on my head, it puts them in a position over you, and therefore in a more dominant position. Some people say not even on the shoulder, but I disagree with that, although in your case maybe not even that until he proves himself.
Try refusing him access to your head (at least), he'll probably be pretty mad but he'll get over it. He needs to know his place in the "flock", and that is definately not at the top. Birds get horrible power trips, and ultimately, everyone suffers.
I'm just maybe offering another perspective.

The bird sitting higher actually doesn't perceive it as a form of dominance, that's a myth. The bird only sees it as a secure place to be.

Of course if the bird is prone to biting your face it's a good idea to keep them away from areas where they can reach your face. Another problem with sitting on the head during hormonal issues is you will be unable to see the birds body language. A bird will warn by posturing before biting (easier to read in some than others).

@RiosMom You could try giving Rio some camomile from time to time. I can help sooth a birds nerves. Another thing I recently read was giving a bird beans and paste once a week is a good way to improve the nutrition the bird gets and thus can help reduce behavior problems.

Also don't treat going back in the cage as a "punishment" this will only upset the bird and ca even make it hard to put the bird back in other situations. When I need to give my bird a "time out" he will get a small treat once inside the closed cage and left alone. You don't want the bird feeling resentful they went back, just want them to cool off.

 

[Zkyevolved]

I really hope I can help. I'm no specialist but I have a CAG and he's about five and a half now. Sometimes he has bad days and good days.

Since birds follow the leader, the higher the bird is in the tree the higher his level is in the group. So by letting him up on your head or shoulder you're allowing him to be the leader of your family. Sounds kind of funny doesn't it? The leader of your family is a bird. Haha

As for the biting they all have good days and bad days. My bird, Simba, doesn't bite too often. I think one reason is that he knows he won't get anywhere with it. I took my bloody finger bites in the day, and sometimes I still do, but hardly ever. The secret for me was to just take it and if he bites me he goes on the floor right after he let's go and I scold him with a firm no and I stand over him and he sees me much higher than him. I've even had him bite me again while picking him up off the floor and he would to directly back to the floor. He doesn't bite often. Maybe 3 times a year. But he does sometimes punish me for scratching wrong or when I go for a run I think the hormones or me breathing heavily offends him. Haha.

But I'd try a kind of conditioning. If he bites, try not to react. And maybe give the floor thing a try. It takes time and consistency. But they're really smart animals. But don't forget, they're also like a permanent 3 year old, you can't rationalize with them or anything like that. It takes time and effort. They'll fall into a fall into the habit and learn what biting does.

 

[xreinx]

I don't have a parrot, and this isnt my experence, but my sisters friend has three parrots and all of them are (strangely enough) so well mannored that she allows them outside, they are fully flighted and often fly up to perch on the electric wire outside her house, I was shocked to see this but she had a vary... (dont know how to put it without sounding rude) ... spirited... green amazon.

As I was with my sister, I dont know this women all that well, and we were tending her horses so I dont know if this is what she did inside..
but her amazon flew to her, she scooped it off her shoulder and onto her wrist, the bird got angry and gave a cry enough to startle the horse she was working on, and looked like it was going to attack her arm, she did a wrist roll.. moved fast.. turned away from the horse - moving vary fast, and put the parrot down on the ground outside the round ring and jerked away from the bird looking ... almost clownish, her face was really .. upset, and she looked hard at her bird for maybe 5 seconds.. I think she was making the face for the bird, then turned and walked away.

the whole thing last maybe 15 seconds. I was shocked but the bird stayed on the ground for maybe 30 seconds just stareing at her and I was instructed not to look at the bird cause I was giving it attention because she was being bad.

I don't know what rolling the wrist did, besides making the poor parrot flap and scream, but it kept the amazon from biting her and the parrot look like it was out for blood, It Was spring time, early spring here is late spring and summer for everyone else so the bird could have vary well have been suffering from hormones but she said every year at that time the amazon turned into a monster.

Im not sure if this will help (the women had all sorts of animals) and seemed to know what she was doing... at least.. she didnt get bit..

 

[xreinx]

I forgot to say HI RiosMom! long time no see, I don't know if you remember me, It's been a while. life kept me from getting back on here for a few years and im sorry ive been MIA for so long.

 

[MagegrayWolf]

Since birds follow the leader, the higher the bird is in the tree the higher his level is in the group. So by letting him up on your head or shoulder you're allowing him to be the leader of your family. Sounds kind of funny doesn't it? The leader of your family is a bird. Haha

Again, that's a myth. Sitting higher isn't a matter of dominance, but of security. Birds in a flock will follow the flock, not the leader.

1) A parrot that bites when he’s perching in a high position does so because he feels he’s dominant.

However, flocks of wild parrots do not have hierarchies such as this. Even in animal groups with something resembling what’s often referred to as a dominance hierarchy, the dominant animal is never one who happens to be standing in a higher position than the others. In most wild wolf packs, the “dominant” animals are typically the parents of the rest of the animals in the pack. Thus, what people have labeled the “alpha” pair are not animals that brutally fought their way up a hierarchy – they are simply the parents or oldest animals in the pack. In other species, a “dominant” animal is one with a very bold, aggressive personality and other animals have simply learned to avoid confrontations with that animal. Wild animals actually can have very different personalities, manifested by varying degrees of willingness to fight or investigate new things, and this has been demonstrated in creatures from guppies to large mammals.


Where did this idea of height dominance come from? I think it came from the fact that some parrots will bite or refuse when they are asked to “step up” onto a hand from a high position. This could be because a lot of parrots prefer to perch in a high position. When given a choice of perches, a wild or captive parrot often goes for the highest one. A bird may not want to step on a hand if he’s content where he is. Additionally, some parrots are a bit clumsy when stepping down (rather than up) and may have trouble stepping down from a solid perch onto an unsteady hand. Always place a perch or hand a bit above the bird’s feet when asking for a step up.
Additionally, parrots can indeed be taught to come down from a tall position. If a parrot has been trained with positive reinforcement, he may realize that he gets treats or praise if he comes to his owner from a tall position. My birds are all target trained and will come down from a tall perch to touch a target. I’ve even taught some birds that most people would label as “extremely aggressive” to come down from a tall perch.

Eight myths and half-truths about parrot behavior | Peggy's Parrot Place

 

[MikeyTN]

Although that's a myth with birds being higher is showing dominance. Which is a myth from everything I've read. BUT it is harder to deal with a bird that went somewhere higher. But if you have them at a level about chest height, it is actually easier to deal with them. I just learn to let them be during hormone season after years having birds around. Cause once the season is over they come right back around and act normal once again.

 

[LoryLover]

I have a female Lory and she has never gotten more nippy during the hormonal times. But whenever she does nip or bite, it's because she doesn't want something done that's being done. Using a sweet tone of voice will change my bird's mood too and make her be all sweet and happy.

 

[RiosMom]

Sorry I have been out of the loop, but graduation/parties were busy. We just got back from an 11 day trip and she continues to perplex me!

When I arrived home, she happily went onto my hand and allowed me to pet her and seemed like her "old" self. Fast forward 10 hours and boom, quick bite. She will eat out of my hand, but bite my hand randomly. I'm going very slow and watching her body language, trying to avoid bites before they happen and giving her lots of treats for desired behavior. There is so much advice out there for when a bite does happen, but returning her to her cage does make her angrier so I don't do that anymore.

I'm afraid that maybe the hormones have calmed down, but she developed a biting habit. Now I have to work through that, but being patient is so hard! Thanks for all of the advice...so appreciated!

 

[legal_eagle]

I wonder if you're being almost too interactive and the bird is interpreting it as uncomfortable or scary. Some behavior experts say that fear is the only reason that parrots bite. Anyway, I was thinking about my GCC who is extremely gentle ... she hardly ever bites me and drawing blood would be an extremely rare occasion (and it's generally because I was doing something to scare her). I don't ever give her treats (I just give her food in her cage) and often she flies around following me just to hang out and be near while I'm doing my daily activities. But I tend not to spend long stretches of time in contact with her. She'll be on my shoulder for a few minutes, but then I have something to do and I put her down, which she accepts with ease. And she has a rope perch on top of her cage that she can fly back to. Maybe by "rationing" how much contact she gets with me, she doesn't get the chance to bite me ... or maybe because I just let her come and go it's really comfortable to her. So, anyhow, maybe my experience and thoughts about my relationship with my bird will be of some assistance to you!

 

[RiosMom]

Quick update...things are progressing well. Rio and I have been training daily and she is getting back to her "normal" behavior. She has been stepping up occasionally, but no longer lunges for my hand (or for blood). I worked with her so that she doesn't attack the cage and now steps to the top of the door to come out. I definitely noticed that the more I relax, the more relaxed she is. I think my anxiety about the situation was not helping and by being away we both got the break we needed!

My parents definitely thought I was crazy for dealing with this behavior, but I wouldn't trade her for the world. We bird parents are a special few!

 

[LoryLover]

When I arrived home, she happily went onto my hand and allowed me to pet her and seemed like her "old" self. Fast forward 10 hours and boom, quick bite. She will eat out of my hand, but bite my hand randomly.

This sounds so much like what our previous lory would do with my husband. Woody would be happily playing with his toys on our kingsize bed, and then dart over to my husband who was laying on top of the bed on his back, watching tv... Woody would dart over quick as lightning, bite my husband on his face, drawing blood, then go back to the area where his toys were, as if nothing had happened. We discovered that Woody had decided that my husband was his mate. Specifically my husband's feet. Woody never, ever did that behavior with me.

Possibly your bird considers you her mate. They get really jealous and will punish their "mate" for bad behavior, lol. Even in the wild... as I've seen videos of this behavior.