One of the reasons Kizzy doesn't like her cage...

[Ladyhawk]

She is a poor climber. In her mind, if she can get anywhere she wants by flying, why bother to climb?

I did a stupid thing when I left her in the cage to amuse herself. I thought she'd be delighted with the toys and new space to explore. For awhile, she was. She even hung upside down on a toy and growled at it. I decided not to look at her so she wouldn't be self conscious, but that was the wrong decision. My guess is she had trouble getting down from the toy. It was then she started fussing and I let her fuss for too long.

She is sensitive and smart. She learned that the inside of the cage is a scary place where her mommy can't hear her.

Every day, I put her down and pick her up from the perches, but she still doesn't want to be in there for more than a second. I tried feeding her treats inside and she still didn't want to stay. I finally resorted to letting her perch on my hand inside the cage and feeding her treats. That's as close as she would come to staying in the cage for five seconds.

I've let her climb on the outside and that's when it became evident she's not very good at climbing. She needs lots of help when the climb is vertical.

I'm trying to remember she's only ten weeks old. Her prowess in the air makes her seem older than she is. There's still time to reverse her hatred of the cage and I think the first step is learning to climb.

The cage has a playtop where she has learned a little bit about climbing. The cage itself has horizontal bars, but she doesn't know how to trust her beak and feet in order to move up. She only moves sideways. She can't seem to scale the bars in order to reach the playtop.

Does anyone have any ideas how I can help her learn to climb and also desensitize her fear of the cage? I'm trying, but there are many, many lessons we have to work on during the course of the day. I've worn myself out working on harness training, weaning, target training and cage desensitization. There is so very much to do!

Thanks in advance.

 

[LordTriggs]

oh no poor kizzy!

I've heard of fear of being in the cage before but with a CAG so I can only go by what that owner did. I'm assuming you removed the toy which got Kizzy all flustered, can't imagine it'd be nice to be around that all the time.

If large enough try getting in the cage yourself to show it's okay in there, she sounds like she's already a velcro bird so you being physically in there may coax her in. If that's not possible maybe try removing one of the panels if that's possible. The other option would be to just sit with her whilst she's inside and talk to her and let her know everything is okay. I'm sure she'll figure out climbing soon enough, if not you may just need to arrange the perches so she can get around without having to use the sides of the cage

good luck!

 

[SailBoat]

So, if you are going to take off a side panel so you can be in the area with her (neat idea, by the way). You can use that side panel to teach climbing by starting with it flat and then lifting one end over time until you are vertical.

Kizzy is doing such a great job of training you!

 

[LordTriggs]

So, if you are going to take off a side panel so you can be in the area with her (neat idea, by the way). You can use that side panel to teach climbing by starting with it flat and then lifting one end over time until you are vertical.

Kizzy is doing such a great job of training you!

I didn't think of that! Little birdy climbing wall haha. That would be a great way of teaching her and getting her used to the cage.

Sounds like never a dull moment with an amazon. Maybe when It's more viable for me I'll have a look into one, they seem like such great parrots

 

[Kiwibird]

Climbing is a learned skill, much like flying. Kiwi, despite his age upon adoption, wasn't a skilled climber. He soon leaned to be though with the aid of carefully placed rarely offered highly desirable treats out of reach unless he climbed to them and kind of waved him on and made it clear HE had to get them without assistance. Sometimes he'd balk at the thought, but his pigginess always won out in the end. He is a fearless climber for a flightless bird.

Have never had to deal with cage-phobia with Kiwi, but IMO being overly sensitive to new things in general is not a quality to be encouraged or played into too much. If Kiwi is fearful of something new I don't immediately remove the object (or him). I give a treat and praise but let him spend a couple nervous minutes working it out for himself that XYZ isn't actually harmful and the reason mommy isn't rescuing me is I don't need to be rescued. His fear typically diminishes rapidly as he realizes he's being encouraged and there is no risk. Letting them work through their fear with your verbal encouragement/praise builds that trust that you won't present them with dangerous things making life easier in the future when introducing new things. If it were me, I'd plunk her in the cage and step back. Stick around within eyesight and offer verbal praise/encouragement but not immediately pick her up if she's nervous. Just let her sit there and figure out there is nothing to be afraid of. Give massive praises when she calms down and/or offer self rewards like some treats in the cage for her to retrieve or a favored toy.

Think like a mother bird in these situations. A mother bird nudges her nervous baby out of the nest when the time comes even if the baby is scared because mamma bird knows baby bird can (and will) fly when she does. Kizzy is absolutely of the correct age to be getting those gentle nudges along when she's nervous into becoming a confident and fearless young lady I'd fear with a bird of her age being too accommodating of unwarranted nervousness could lead to a timid and fearful bird for life and that it could impact her sense of independence and confidence in her own abilities along with making it difficult and traumatizing in the future to introduce new things.

 

[Ladyhawk]

Kizzy is doing such a great job of training you!

Have never had to deal with cage-phobia with Kiwi, but IMO being overly sensitive to new things in general is not a quality to be encouraged or played into too much.

Point taken. She has always been extremely sensitive...African grey sensitive. Up until I decided to leave her wings intact, I made her do things she didn't want to do, like take trips in the car. We haven't been on many car trips because I am very, very tired due to two freak-outs. One was my decision to let Kizzy fly. I've never had a flighted bird before and I know how dangerous it can be. The other freak-out involved a retinal tear in my right eye. I was justifiably terrified I would lose my sight.

This paragraph is about the retinal tear. Skip it if you'd like, but I kind of need to vent. On the Fourth of July, a huge floater developed in my right eye that blocked about 30% of my vision. I couldn't do anything about it because of the holiday. By the following day, the floater looked like a negative of a nebula with thousands and thousands of tiny black stars. I went to see an optometrist and he misdiagnosed my condition as macular edema due to diabetes. After going home and thinking about it for a bit, I realized there was a good chance I had been misdiagnosed. My diabetes is under control and has been for quite some time. There are no ophthalmologists in my area who take my insurance, so there was a mad shuffle to get a second opinion. On Friday, a local ophthalmologist offered to see me for $70. He confirmed that my floater had nothing to do with diabetes. It had been caused by a retinal tear and he urged me to have same-day laser eye surgery in a city about an hour from here. I'd had insomnia the night before, the ophthalmologist appointment at 8 a.m. and needed to be driven to an appointment an hour away to have eye surgery. And of course, Kizzy had to come. This caused me a hell of a lot of stress and even a bit of pain from the supposedly painless laer surgery. I'd call it "mostly painless." The floater is supposed to go away in a few weeks. Damn. I wanted to see War for the Planet of the Apes in 3D. By the time the movie opens, maybe the floater will be small enough that I'll have an acceptable 3D experience. I hope so. I've had lots of eye problems in the past, so I'm not exactly certain this will be the end of this terrifying experience. In the meantime, I'm doing my best not to freak, but I'm sure Kizzy senses the stress.

At the same time, I am convinced Kizzy is naturally sensitive and needs a bit more accommodation than a less sensitive Amazon. That means I have to expand her horizons the same way I would for a grey. Since she can't go out on her Aviator Harness, I need to take her in her carrier until her Pak-o-Bird arrives. Yes, I ordered one and I am totally stoked. I get to start taking long walks on my favorite trail again!

Kiwi's mom: I don't have a removable panel on her cage, but I do have a wire shelf that will do the trick. I can start with the shelf nearly flat, use the target stick and make the incline steeper and steeper. Thanks for the idea!

I still think she needs to be desensitized to the cage before I expect her to stay inside. If you disagree, please explain why.

This forum is great. The collective knowledge and brainstorming are a godsend for people who love parrots. Since Gabby died, I've lost a lot of the confidence I had in my training techniques. In ways that's good because I'm more open to new ideas. In ways, it's bad because I feel anxious. Kizzy is so smart she'll exploit that weakness for sure. Quick example of her intelligence and bossiness: This morning she flew to her training perches and told me, "Up!...Up!...Up!" She wanted treats. She can have some in awhile, but for now, I need her to entertain herself and learn some independence.

I will probably need to get back to you on this issue. It won't be solved in a day.

Thanks, everybody.

 

[Ladyhawk]

Obviously, Kizzy has to learn she needs to be confined at times. What about putting her in her carrier for a short while?

Before she could fly, but after she had learned to climb out of the plastic tub, I put her into her carrier and she didn't fuss. She's used to it. I don't think there's a phobia, just a dislike of being confined. I don't think it would hurt to make her get into her carrier for a few minutes. I could ignore her fussing until she calmed down and then let her out. I'm just worried she would fuss for a long time and that would be counterproductive. Perhaps I should always take a short walk outside to distract her? Maybe that would help.

What do you think?

 

[Kiwibird]

Every bird is different and every human owned by a bird has a different comfort level in how they train their bird. If you feel Kizzy will benefit from target training and gradual acclimation, that is likely what will end up working best since she will sense your feeling of confidence in training her using that methodology. Parrots are very sensitive to our emotions, moods, feelings... And without a doubt, if you've been stressed, she will pick that up and react to it. I hope your eye heals soon! I know what it's like to have vision problems (no fun!).