On the edge...

[greencheekachick]

-I'm on the edge of what to do with my green cheek conure pair Meeka and Morpheus again. I guess it's that time of year for them but I'm at my limit this time. I've actually been sitting here crying because I can't figure it out.
-It started because my Meeka (who hasn't bitten me in a very long time) tried and was successful in biting my hand while changing her water. Morpheus is usually the one to lunge and bite when I go anywhere near their cage let alone change food/water. It's thrown me off so bad. Meeka was/is my first bird and I hate that she did this. I mean she has tried before but usually she remembers it's me and just nibbles or stops right away. I can deal with Morpheus doing this (and have been working with him) but not Meeka. It seems I have to do the opposite for Morpheus than for Meeka. When I go to let them out if Meeka tries bitting then I walk away and leave, but if Morpheus tries (which almost always does)then walking away is more of reward for him because that's what he wants in the first place and then I'm 'punishing' Meeka at the same time if she wasn't trying to bite.
-Another thing is I'm going to be moving in with my boyfriend some time but not sure when. (Could be soon or next year I don't know, probably later than sooner though). Not sure how to go about that for them either. I can't think.
If they are going to keep up biting me I'll have to... I don't wanna say.
-I can't decide if i should just tough it out some more and see if it gets better. Although I'll need advice on how to keep working with them when they are opposite on rewarding (like I said above) to do this.
Let them have more babies (this year I've kept everything they might see as a nest out so no more babies for now at least, because I wouldn't mind babies again actually) because they (Morpheus mostly) are always looking for a dark nesting spots lately and maybe letting them have babies would calm them down again?
Or just rehoming them to a breeder that is more experienced with this and then my Meeka and Morpheus could be happier? I would be able to work with Shyra (their daughter) better because she wouldn't be constantly distracted by them. (Or hopefully not learning any bad habits from her dad too)
Maybe get a cage that has the outside access food doors? Only thing with that is I still want to use the same cups I'm currently using so they would have to be tall enough for them. ( they are the JW Pet Company Clean Cups, they have hoods and lock into place) I tried putting them on the 'breeder/feeder' doors on their current cage but they are to tall to fit.
Any other suggestions?

-Thanks for reading my long post. I just need help.

 

[labell]

I don't want to sound harsh at all so please bear with me but you set them up for breeding and are now sad that they are acting like breeders. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I understand that you may miss the way Meeka was before but as soon as you set them up as a pair nature takes over. They are now concerned with being a pair, raising babies and are bonded to each other.

Almost all species of parrots change significantly once they are set up as breeders. Breeders actually should have outside access doors to their food and water to save you from those bites which at this point are completely natural and should be expected from a breeding pair.

If you want a pet I would concentrate on one of their babies but you really may not be able to undo the strong desire to breed now that it is set in motion with the parents.
You could think of separating them and trying to work with them as separate pets again but how fair would this be to them? I can't answer that because I don't know how long they have been together and how many clutches of babies they have already had or how strong their bond is to each other.

 

[getwozzy]

I agree with Laura- companion birds shouldn't breed, and breeder birds shouldn't be companions. It's really one or the other... So you can either continue letting them breed and accept that they probably won't be lovey towards you, or separate them and remove all nesting items- it will take a lot if time and training to get them back to being the companions they were before (or it may not happen [emoji51]). Or- like Laura said- continue letting them breed and focus on raising their daughter as a companion.

 

[greencheekachick]

-I guess I didn't clarify. I didn't intend for them to be breeders. I had Meeka for a year before getting Morpheus. At the time it was the typical so my bird had a friend type of thing because I was going to go off to college(which didn't happen anyways) and I didn't want to leave Morpheus at the pet store.(had been there for months according to staff and was unhand-tame at all. Me thinking how well I did with Meeka I'd be able to hand tame him) When I brought him home he wouldnt bite or lunge to save his life and I should have(now that I think about it) kept them separate longer so I could tame him down. Also at the time I didnt know for sure that Meeka was a female and Morpheus was a male just guesses.
-This last year was their first clutch (after seeing them mate put in a nest box just in case they were male and female.) and Meeka was still bonded with me and seemed even after having babies with Morpheus that she wouldn't care if i separated them. Morpheus by this time had become (still is) very bonded with Meeka over anything else and while I've made progress with him he is very aggressive and I won't take him away from her.
-Now it seems Meeka has been becoming more bonded to Morpheus and would not do well separated from him either.
-Good advise though and I know being protective of their mates is normal but it threw me off because Meeka isn't the one to do that with me.
-Think they would be better at a breeders then? It's this decision I made the end of last year but backed out to see if I could work with them. I love them so much.

 

[hacatta]

i don;t fully agree with the breeders will bite thing.
My first green cheek Kiva was a biter from the moment i got her and when Fury came she bonded with him.
They had accidentally a young,and she became very sweet ,fury also didn't change and let me do with their young whatever i wanted,they trusted me to take care of her.
But i don't know i this is just a special case,kiva hasn't really bitten me since then ,it has been a year.

 

[Dinosrawr]

I wouldn't take bites too personally. I know it absolutely sucks when the bird you love and has never done evil against you all of a sudden turns (I took a hard hit when Avery bit me out of jealousy for the first time, and it HURT!), but they communicate that way. Meeka was likely concerned about you taking something away from her that she felt was incredibly important, or felt concerned that you might do something in her environment... and while she hasn't bitten you in a very, very long time, I could assure you it will likely happen again in the future. Sometimes we step on boundaries without realizing what the heck we did wrong.

Unfortunately this happens a lot, especially with conures. They're known for being very cuddly and lovey, and then all of a sudden they turn into little biting machines and get tossed up for adoption or sent else where. Personally, I would sum this up to territoriality. Avery will rarely bite me when I'm in her cage, heck I could probably sleep in there and she'd love it. But, on occasion, when I change her water or food she'll attack for no reason. She knows it's me, knows I'm going to give her more, and knows I won't do any harm - but she'll still attack me, though rarely.

If you don't want breeders but want to keep your birds, then perhaps it would be a good idea to get a two stacker cages or a double breeder cage. That way they can be close to each other, sleep next to each other, be near each other during the day, but be separated when necessary and prevent future breeding.

There are cages such as:

4030-2 AE Cage Double Stack 40 x 30 Brd Cages - STACKER & BREEDER CAGES

Or

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/BirdsComfort-HQ-Double-Flight-Purpose/dp/B00KIH15KY/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1402607861&sr=8-12&keywords=double+breeder+bird+cage]Amazon.com : BirdsComfort HQ Double Flight Bird Cage 64x21, Multi Purpose Flat Top Aviary Bird Cage - Black : Pet Supplies[/ame]


While this is a difficult decision, try to think about your birds. Is it really best to remove human companionship from a bird you're so closely bonded to because she bit you? Is it best to put the birds where nature can take its course and they can bond strongly? I'm not sure. But if you can't handle the emotional turmoil from being bitten by a companion bird, then perhaps it is the best idea.

 

[greencheekachick]

While this is a difficult decision, try to think about your birds. Is it really best to remove human companionship from a bird you're so closely bonded to because she bit you? Is it best to put the birds where nature can take its course and they can bond strongly? I'm not sure. But if you can't handle the emotional turmoil from being bitten by a companion bird, then perhaps it is the best idea.

-This is what I'm wrestling with. I know this wouldn't be the last time she bites and I usually almost always don't take it this way. I can usually get around Morpheus guarding everything but if Meeka is going to start up it's going to be hard to do anything without having them out of the cage first. I cant do that all the time because it takes to long to then get them back in without Morpheus getting me and I can't just leave them out if I have to get them in because I have to leave somewhere (like work).
-Thanks for the links I'll consider this.

-hacatta~ does your pair still live together in the same cage?

 

[Kalidasa]

Ok, you say you "didn't intend for them to become breeders", but you put in a nest box? I'm not understanding the logic. I'm not judging you, I'm just trying to understand?

 

[riddick07]

First I doubt she put much thought into the fact that having babies made them breeders. I know I didn't when my first two birds bred. I just had the mindset of oh they are going at it so they must need somewhere to put the end result. Not my brightest moment for sure....

Okay so this is not meant to be overly harsh though it might be a little. I don't see why you would have to get rid of them even if they ended up as just a bonded pair that don't really want to interact with people. You put them together so you need to deal with the end result. You don't have to let them hatch any eggs they lay either get fakes or freeze and replace the real eggs. If they bite when you put hands in the cage then stick train them to come out. I do this with my very sweet Monkey who is a pitbull about her cage but the nicest thing everywhere else (don't take them out if you have to be somewhere fast....). Just because your first bird bit you doesn't mean she all of a sudden hates your guts. Granted I haven't been bit by mine in awhile but even if Monkey were to bite me now that she is caged with my male, Monster, I wouldn't go to the immediate mindset of now I must get rid of her. I also caged them separately for years before putting them together so they have individual bonds with me but I still wouldn't give them away even if they became the meanest dive bombing green cheek duo.

Just let them be a duo (wether that is caged semi separately or together). Keep them supplied in food, water and toys. Concentrate on bonding with the daughter and let the parents just be by themselves if that is what they desire. I feel you lost a close bond with your first bird but she still expects you to love and care for her because that is what you promised when you first brought her home. Not 'only as long as I'm number one and you are nice to me'...


If you do give them to a breeder be careful and research them in depth to be sure they are respectable. They seem to be producing normals so that isn't as in demand and the pair could easily be deemed useless and thrown away or separated to be bred to other birds.

 

[greencheekachick]

First I doubt she put much thought into the fact that having babies made them breeders. I know I didn't when my first two birds breed. I just had the mindset of oh they are going at it so they must need somewhere to put the end result. Not my brightest moment for sure....

-Yes I didn't want them laying eggs and then hatching out on the bottom of the cage if in fact they were male and female. I thought them having babies would be wonderful too but I didn't think Morpheus would go from no biting to save his life to overprotective of Meeka and cage and practically eat me either. Meeka pretty much stayed the same except if I intruded in the nest box (which she stayed in pretty much until the babies were hatched. So if I had thought of taking eggs out then or even now, I don't think I'd have the heart to do that.) And after all said and done I foolishly thought they would go back to being the same as before.

-I guess I forgot to say that Meeka bit my mom too for the same reason last week. Meeka can usually tolerate my mom but hasn't really ever trusted her for some reason. My mom takes care of them when I'm gone so that was another concern in my racing thoughts yesterday.
-Your right about the breeders too and it worries me too (it was another reason I backed out the first time) I don't think I'll be rehoming them . And I do still love them even if it turns out I won't be able to touch them.
-I'm thinking of getting a cage that has a better door(s) and actual feeder doors. I would like to keep my current food cups though so the doors would have to be tall enough and be wire to fit them. Or if not then food cups that lock into the holder. Morpheus figured out how to lift and dump food out of their last food cup whenever he foofed up and threw his 'rage' fits. (it was the cheap plastic 'trough' one that came with the cage but I figure if he could lift that up and out of the bars then he could do the same with one of those stainless steel cups that sit in a ring) I can only buy from Amazon too because I don't have a credit card and they can take digital checks.

-Anyways thanks for your input and support everyone. This is why I posted because I have these thoughts that I think are best and I have to do sometimes when really I don't usually have to do or maybe change a little thing that I otherwise would have thought to be big. I confuse myself allot too haha so thanks again.

 

[KeroRocks]

>>he could do the same with one of those stainless steel cups that sit in a ring)<<

No he can't. The stainless ones that sit in a ring are held in place when the door is closed. The birds can't move the dish at all. When you open the door the little lip that holds the dish in place moves away and you can remove the dish.

I PREFER by a mile the feeder doors with the stainless bowls. I have birds that throw everything so the cups being locked in place is important.

 

[greencheekachick]

-So the cup locks into the ring part?