newly adopted seven yr old

[maggenpie]

Hi, I'm here for some down to earth advice for me and my newly adopted seven year old Lesser Sulphur. He's hand reared, loves to be petted. But - and there has to be a but, right? - he will bite to get his own way.

In the past five weeks he's been through four homes and mine makes five. I don't know his history prior to that. He was taken to a petshop by someone too afraid to handle him. He was there for approx two weeks and bought by someone who gave up on him after a week, passing him on to another person to foster while a home was found. I took him on yesterday, and I know there is a lot of work to be done to reassure this poor chap.

I was told he doesn't eat fruit and veg, only seed mix, but today he's tried apple, banana, peas and spinach so that's encouraging and I'm aiming to gradually switch him to a better diet. He has a bald patch on his chest and I've seen him with a loose down feather in his beak having a good chew. He is missing three toenails and his feet don't have a strong grip.

He doesn't play with toys, but the foster home allowed - encouraged - him to chase people around the floor. He stepped up nicely when we met but the trauma of being caught and transported yet again has shaken his confidence and today he is backing off with the threat of a bite if his feelings are not respected. When he sees men he bobs excitedly and for the past three weeks a little boy has been getting him worked up, thinking it was fun to see him bob and dance - but with me he's quiet and calm. And quiet and calm is what I'm praising, of course. Right now I can hear beak grinding and his cheeks are fluffed out.

So, for the moment I'm leaving him in the safety of his cage. Lots of quiet conversation, head rubs - especially good since he has pin feathers needing attention and he appreciates it, offering fruit and veg and encouraging him to try it by showing that I think it's tasty, diverting his frustration and fears into things to chew and shred - which with some encouragement he has had a go at.

I've not attempted to handle him today, which feels like a backward step since the foster lady did handle him and showered him daily. But my instincts tell me not to push him until he's more relaxed. I'd welcome other's insights on this. I'm home most of the time, have patience and I'm good at reading his moods, having been around birds of many kinds all my life and I'm in my fifties now. What I don't have is previous experience with cockatoos - so all advice is welcome!

 

[MaraWentz]

Give him some time to settle in and then train him. AS I have said before do not let him get his way. If you ask him to step up and he isn't in the mood, or doesn't like some one/thing around you, etc, make him step up. Once you give a command you must follow it- no matter if he screams or bites. Getting a parrot means you're going to bit at least once, it's a gauruntee, but doesn't mean the biting has to continue. The best solution (and I've done it with two birds now- one aggressive for no reason, and the other was practically wild) is go towards them with the knowledge that blood will be shed (so dramatic lol). Expect to get bit when you ask step up and when you do get bit, don't jerk your hand, don't scream in agony, say no while continuing what you are doing (which would be getting him to step up). Don't get nervous and pull your hand back if he lunges or it becomes a huge fun game of 'ha ha I got you!' Just give the command and push through the biting and pretend it didn't happen- which is hard- I have a nice scar from my baby boy Elvis. But just ignore the biting and within a week or two the biting will slow down and by 2-4 weeks it should cease if you trully are ignoring the bites.

 

[maggenpie]

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of advice I need. That was the main thing on my mind, that by backing off because he's showing that he's not happy about stepping up, I could allow him to feel he's getting his own way and therefore reinforce exactly the behaviour I don't want. But knowing what he's been through makes me want to give him time and personal space to adjust.

I'll leave it for a few days, concentrate on the things we're both happy and comfortable with, then make a fresh start with the thought very firmly in my mind that what I say, goes. I'm certain birds know what you're thinking and a positive attitude goes a long way. Now I know that's the right way to go I won't hesitate.

On the bright side we had a lovely call and answer singsong together in the quietest little voice he could manage. He did it last night too, but this evening we kept it up longer and it felt very harmonious to sing together. I'm sure he has been loved in the past and perhaps puberty was the cause of his recent misfortune.

 

[paulhanlon]

Hi maggan Congrats on your new feathered friend its nice to know he is tame and likes to be petted as well and as mara stated it is sad that people get birds and give them the love they need until the bird reaches maturity and they become abit nippy if only they realized and they trained the bird to get this behaviour under control but sadly they take the easy way out and give the bird up to a rescue the way I see it with positive training even the wildest of birds can be controlled and your doing such a great job with not pulling your hand away when he bites you I'm sure in due time you will have the most loving featherd friend ever I wish you the best of luck and keep us updated.

 

[lene1949]

I would not push it at this stage... If he doesn't want to step up, and you make him, he'll most likely bite, and rightly so... You don't want that

Let the little guy settle in and work WITH him, when he's ready... Then take it slow - don't force anything...

 

[greycloud]

I could not disagree more with Mara Wentz!. Sorry to be so blunt but you never force a parrot to do something it is not ready to do unless it is an emergency. In my 30+ yrs of experience I have seen this backfire time and again. Forcing a parrot to do what we want is called flooding and negative reinforcement. The bird may do what you ask but he is not rewarded in his mind ie:trust, by you. Positive reinforcement is the most beneficial and rewarding to a parrot.
Maggenpie, I actually loved your first post! You are doing everything right! Many times we must take two steps back to gain 1 forward! This applies to the relationship you have with any parrot throughout its' entire life with you. As their care givers we must recognize that sometimes going back to the drawing board, per say, works best!
This poor baby has had his entire world flipped upside down. Right now he just needs to be reassured that he has a safe place to land. THat nothing is expected from him but just his happiness. Keep reassuring him, offering scritches and favorite treats, talking and reading him to him, playing with his toys so he can see you think they are fun. This will spark his interest. Find a treat he really enjoys. When I am working with my birds or birds that I am working with for behavioral issues I use popcorn, pine nuts, an unsalted grain cracker in pieces. Keep treats small so that he gets the reward quickly and wants to respond more to get another.
In days or weeks his trust in you will build and a bond will develop. This is when you work on step ups. No one knows what baggage this bird has so go slow and baby steps. Thanks for caring enough to want to make things work and for him to be happy!

**When I rescued my abandoned 30+ umbrella Too Sammy he was aggressive, scared and hungry. I had no idea what his life prior to me was like. For the first week I did everything I stated above. The next week I left his cage open in a secluded room so he could come and go in it as desired. I worked getting closer to him and he graciously accepted me. One day while standing on his door I was talking with him, feeding treats for lovely behavior and he lifted his foot! And there it was! The trust! He is now my little cuddle bug.

 

[MaraWentz]

It's alright, we will all have different views-what works for me, may not work for you. I'm not saying to hurt him or lose his trust. I assuming the whole time she is doing positive enforcement, like sitting by him, talking, giving him treats. She will have to teach him step up probably. But if he already knows it and she is showing through talking, sitting near, giving treas, etc that she is not there to cause harm then he should step up. If he understands what is asked and she has given no reason to for him not to trust her then he should follow through. If not he is being difficult. I cannot blame if he doesn't understand the command and is ignorant to what he is supposed to do. However, if he knows, whether he 'feels' like listening or not is unimportant to the command given- unless sick or hurt, or of course in the middle of sleep. And after stepping up he deserves a treat such as food reward, toy, or maybe just being able to step down.

 

[aliray]

Greycloud I definetly agree with your approach. it makes a lot of sense to gain his trust first. Alison and sweetie pie

 

[aliray]

maggenpie congrats on your new baby, however 5 homes in 5 weeks , that poor bird I am sure he is traumatised. I think your instincts are right kindness and trust first a good diet. you have a lifetime to worry about traing if you build the trust the rest will follow. Alison and sweetie pie

 

[maggenpie]

Thanks for all the great replies, and I don't think the differing views are really all that conflicting when you come down to it. I agree with Mara that I can't let him control me by biting, and I agree with Greycloud that I don't want to force him.

I don't want it to be a battle because he is unwilling. So for the moment I'm not asking him to step up at all. When I feel the time is right, I'm wondering if it might be as well to start from the beginning and get him to step onto a perch first? Once he understands that I won't give in and I won't hurt him either, we should progress fairly quickly I think, given that he came to me happily when we first met. He does know how to step up but the foster lady had him step up and then tried to get him in the box. He took fright and she ended up chasing him around the room for several minutes. He was only caught when stressed and panting. He hasn't stepped up since and I can't blame him.

He's certainly had a very disrupted life, he may even have been through more short term homes before ending up in the petshop five weeks ago. My first priority has to be reassuring him. That and improving his diet and activities.

On that score I'm pleased. Only his second day with me and he went straight for his veg this morning - and I was told that he won't eat fruit and veg. He's not eaten enough but it's a start.

I've loaded up a fruit holder spike with cardboard and wood nibbles and he's been happily destroying that, and picked up a toy and carried it up and dropped it over and over - and I was told he doesn't play. He's had pieces of apple wrapped in paper and went mad over a bowl of oystershell grit. He was rubbing pieces onto his legs and chest feathers. Any idea what that was about? He had a good soaking with a spray and enjoyed that. When I had visitors he shouted a bit but soon settled and laughed along with them. I was pleased he took it in his stride. He's not a nervous bird at all.

He wants to come out, but his attitude is 'I want to come out and I don't care who I have to fight to do it!' He's been used to getting his own way by biting so that's what he does first. I could let him out and wait until he feels like putting himself back but I suspect there would be clashes over what I want and what he wants at this stage, so I'd rather wait than set our relationship back.

When I stopped him from coming out this afternoon after a petting session, he immediately went for his chest feathers, and naturally I'd rather he didn't pluck although I know that it's a habit he may not break. I read somewhere about aloe vera in a spray bottle being soothing so I'll see about trying that. Unfortunately I don't have a plant at the moment. A game of peek-a-boo with a teatowel threaded through the bars always distracts him and he picks up his end of the cloth and waves it up and down as if he's trying to copy me. Pity I can't watch him all the time, but I'm pleased he's learning to chew other things than himself.

Please keep the comments coming if you have anything to add or insights I may not have, I really appreciate all your help.

 

[aliray]

I would remove the oyster grit parrots don't need it and from what I understand they can get impacted from it . years ago we always put grit into bird cages but most birds shell their seeds or nuts etc and don't need it to digest their food. Alison and sweetie pie

 

[TheMajesticPalmCockatoo]

I would go to www.Birdtricks.com for the training not to bite. Good luck

 

[PetoftheDay]

If you are really afraid of being bitten (which is understandable, it HURTS) you can invest in a good pair of thick work gloves, and leave them by his cage for a few days before putting them on and then offering a hand to step onto. Never grab him when wearing the gloves, of course, or they will become scary monsters, too, but if it help you stay calm, and dulls the pain of a chomp enough so you don't react inadvertently, it can be a good thing!

 

[maggenpie]

Thanks, aliray. I wasn't aware of that.
Majestic, I've been looking at the Birdtricks videos. The clicker training is impressive.
Petoftheday, I'll bear gloves in mind!

If all continues as well as it has been, I'll try step up onto a perch and see what his reaction is. Depending on his response I shall decide which way to go on. He's more relaxed in general and doesn't get as excited when seeing my husband as he did, so that's good. His cage gets messier every day as he gets more into chewing and shredding and just acting like a proper 'too. It's hard to believe he didn't do any of those things before. I suppose he wasn't given the opportunity. He is getting fed up with being stuck in the cage, so it's time now to move forward I think.

 

[MaraWentz]

You may want to nix BirdTricks some videos do work, but a lot aren't reality unless you have a very understanding, patient, loving birds. They have other 'tricks' for getting birds to listen, that I wont mention.

 

[greycloud]

I agree Mara! Not a fan of Birdtricks at all! Absolutely not a fan of gloves. Negative reinforcement.

 

[Sarahtheumbrella]

My too hates gloves, even though I NEVER even touched her with them. If one day I come home with snow gloves she goes straight for them. or when cleaning I use the plastic gloves she comes right at them. I do not know, but gloves overall seem to be threatening.

Just gain trust first so there is no need for gloves. I also recommend that you do not ask for an action you know you are not going to get (i.e. if you know that when you ask to step up he will bite then do not try until you think that he now trusts you enough)

My bird had been rehomed previously and I think that they need to process that this is my forever home(i.e. if she stayed at foster for lets say 1 week it may take two weeks for her to understand she is not going anywhere new, maybe even longer)

Do not make things like stepping up a big deal. They can sense fear in a way. Just act as if it is no big deal. Offer the hand and see what he does.

If he is trying to bite, respect it he is just not comfortable. And if he does bite just continue the interaction so it ends in a good note, and when it does just go and put on a band aid. (If you scream in pain no big deal. Cockatoos love loud noises. Jk try to keep it quiet)
If he is still a bit cuddly that means he wants to be friends, and when he trusts you enough he will CONSTANTLY NEED(not want) you to pick him up .

 

[maggenpie]

Birdtricks seem to so much about selling videos (but it's a business, so that's understandable) and although it looks impressive there's a part of me that says if something looks too good to be true then it probably is. I'm sure they are very good at what they do, but I'm not them and my bird has his own set of issues and I can't imagine how the clicker training would work with him, not having ever tried it. I haven't seen the other methods they use yet, so I'll take your word and respect your opinions, Mara and Greycloud.

At the moment I'm a bit of a sponge, soaking it all up and hoping that once I do feel we're ready to try stepping up, the right solution will slot into place. So I'm trying to keep an open mind. We're all different, aren't we? So while one bird doesn't trust gloves, for another it's less scary than a naked hand. Or perhaps because it gives the handler confidence it makes the bird feel more confident?

Sarahtheumbrella, I agree very much about him needing time to realise that this is his permanant home. (Well, for about the next thirty years anyway, and my daughter will gladly take him after that. We talked about that before I agreed to take him.) Like I said before, I only know about the past few weeks but I'm his fifth person inside six weeks, and heaven knows what happened before that. He was taken to the petshop because he couldn't be handled, so we have some long term problems to deal with as they come up. This is only the beginning and I won't be surprised if things get worse at some point before they get better.

Right now I'm not sure how he's going to react and I will be taking it slow. This is what I'm thinking at the moment, bearing in mind that the problem is trust and a strong willed bird used to getting his own way by force. (I hope I'm making the right assumptions here.) If I can stroke down his chest then I may go straight to stepping up onto my hand. If I sense tension at touching his chest I'll go back to a head rub and praise for allowing that. If he's comfortable at me touching his chest but reacts to step up with a bite - and he was able to do it before, remember - then maybe a perch might allow him to get comfortable with the idea again. He's so friendly otherwise that I can imagine him moving from perch to hand quite easily. I could be wrong but the feeling I get is that it's the breach of trust - the trusted hands did a bad thing to him - that is the issue. And biting is his long proven way of making people stop doing what he doesn't like. What I don't want to do is try and then have to back down. Once I've asked I need to be able to follow through so I'd rather be able to praise a baby step than force him onto my hand without trust.

Keep the ideas coming - somewhere amongst all the different ways to do this is the combination that will work for us. I feel like you're all looking over my shoulder, willing us to succeed. I'm hoping we'll be ready to make a start tomorrow, but if not, well we'll get there in the end.

I can't believe how happy I am at what a mess his cage is! The first day there was nothing on the cage floor but messes and it didn't seem right. He didn't DO anything, just sat around and asked to be petted and reassured. He's changed so quickly and every day he's doing more and eating better, doing things he certainly hadn't done in the previous three weeks, from what I was told. It's lovely to see him blossom.

 

[maggenpie]

A little update. Still a no no on the step up, but he has been out of the cage. He had a fly around, visited Kara Jackdaw - he's been dying for a closer look. He behaved perfectly (I wonder if I'll still be saying that in a couple of weeks?) and went home by himself to chew on some cabbage. Also, he's really calming down on the man-hate. My OH has been standing quietly in the doorway once or twice a day until Gwynn calms down, then just walking away. Today he was able to stand in the middle of the room and Gwynn hardly reacted, so I'm greatly heartened by that. One last thing, the foster lady remarked he had no feather dust and I've noticed the same - until today. Suddenly we have dust.

 

[greycloud]

Awesome update!!! It sounds like things are progressing well! Kudos to all of you, Gwynn included!
The lack of dust may have been due to poor diet and stress. Hopefully he is back on track now. This makes me very happy for all of you!