Newie with a new Goffin

[Virgil8320]

Hello Everyone,

Over the last 3-4 months, I have been researching what bird I would like to add to our flock. I have always had smaller birds; parrotlets,cocktiel(s), quakers etc.. We had been on a bird break while the children were little because we didn't have enough time and it wouldn't be fair to the bird so instead we got dogs and chickens. Now that the kids are older, we wanted to try a bird again. 16 months ago we got a Quaker after looking around. Trigger is a great bird for my wife and only my wife. I was hoping he would bond to me but he took to her quite to everyone’s shock. This left me out of the loop so I started doing research into medium sized birds from a rescue. I would much rather adopt then shop! After months of reading many posts on here and visiting birds I adopted a 8 yr old Goffin last week that I named Virgil. Virgil and I bonded over a 2-3 hours together although I knew it was the honeymoon stage.
Not much was known about his backstory just that a male owner couldn't take care of him anymore.
I will answer the basic questions that are asked to all new members to the forums at the end of this post.
Things have been going well. I just have a few other questions that I am looking for some advice on.
Two days ago Virgil got off the couch onto the floor. As soon as he hit the floor, his demeanor changed and he immediately went after my feet. I don’t want him on the floor at all as I have heard too many horror stories. Virgil did get a good bite to my foot and then as I reached down to get him to step up and stop biting he went for my hands. I got three good blood drawn bites from him before we were able to get a towel on him and get him back to his cage.
We all immediately left the living room and stayed away from him for 30 mins or so. I then sat and quietly talked to him from a chair while I did some work on my computer. After about 2 hours I let him back out but only on the top of his cage. He was fine and no biting. The next evening que the jump down, chase people, bite my feet and then hands and draw blood.
I know that Cockatoos are wild animals and this behavior happens. I have started clicker training and will be working up to simple touch training with a small stir stick next week. I am in it for the long haul, as we don’t give up on our animals in this house. Our dogs had to live separately in different areas of the house and were rotated in with the family. The questions I have for everyone is:

1. When you are being bit I know not to scream or react but how do you get him to release. I tried grabbing his beak firmly but that only encourage him to bite hard.
2. If they do get down to the floor and they refuse to step up with a stick what do you do? He is not the boss and I am going to curb this.

Standard questions that are usually asked
1. How long have you had him at your house? 5 days
2. Have you had any major changes-- new people coming or going, new hair, new furniture, vacations, new schedules etc? New to the home
3. Is he stepping up willingly?
4. Do you have any shadowy spaces (boxes, tents, huts etc that he accesses in or around the cage)?
5.How much sleep does he get nightly?we cover him 830pm everynight and do not uncaover him until at least 830am if not 9am.
6. When was the last time he went to an avian vet? We are going on 8/21
7.What does he eat?Veggie chop we made and the pellet/seed mix he was given.
8. Is anyone else around when he bites?The first time yes, the second time no, it was juts him and I.
9. How long has the biting been happening? Two days so far.
10. What do you do immediately after he bites (including what you say, proximity, body language, etc etc)?I try to get him off quietly and get him to his cage.
11.Are you nervous when you pick him up? No anytime I am around any animal I do not act nervous because they will take advantage of it.
12. When you or other people were or are petting him, did/do you pet him anywhere other than the head and neck? Only the head and neck.

Thank you !
Branden and Virgil

 

[noodles123]

5 days is nothing. Cockatoos need 12 minimum, so keep that up on a schedule.

What about the boxes/huts?

Diet sounds good.

Need more details on the biting, but you are very early on to have a true trust bond. If others are around and you are the "chosen one" then it could be jealously etc. I would strongly suggest researching ABA (Applied Behavior Analysis) in order to determine the "function"/cause of the behavior. ABC charting can really help.

2 days is also nothing (nor is 5)-- I'd say slow down and focus on building trust/not pushing or over-asserting... There is not really a dominance thing with parrots (he won't think he's the boss as long as you don't reward bad behavior and meet his needs). They are very different from dogs etc.

If he bit someone else, you also want them to be associated with low-stress positive interaction, but what is positive to your bird will depend on the motivation behind the behavior. If he is trying to get you alone or ward someone off, that is different than biting to be put down (escape) or biting to get a treat etc.

Not "acting" nervous is not the same as being nervous. They can see capillary changes in our skin.

You are rushing it-- it takes months often but you had a good "honeymoon" period.

How old is the bird?

Where are the dogs when all of this happens?

What do you do when he chases people and what are you doing BEFORE? It's possible that he knows this is a way to get your attention, but it's hard to say without more information and I still think it's early for you to be assuming you have a bond.

couches, floors, pillows, blankets, boxes, nooks, crannies etc should be avoided with cockatoos. The floor CAN be okay, but it tends to make hormonal behavior worse if you already have a hormonal bird.

When he was around someone and bit, what did that person do, and what did you do? This really matters.

 

[Virgil8320]

No boxes or huts at all or any little dark places for that matter.
I do not feel nervous inside at all so I would say I am not nervous
I know it will be a slow process from what I heave read everywhere
Dogs are in their other room sleeping
Virgil is thought to be about 8 yrs old.

The 1st time he was on the couch with me hanging out and hopped down to the floor. I stood up slowly and thats when he went after my feet.

The second time he was out on his cage door and tried to fly to me. He didn't make it and he landed on the floor. He turned and came charging right at my feet. He bit my ankle hard and when i reached down he turned to my hands and arms.

The last time he climbed down off his cage to the floor and was chasing people. We all quietly and slowly moved away till we were in the other room and just let him be. He eventually climbed back to his cage and went inside to eat.

 

[noodles123]

No boxes or huts at all or any little dark places for that matter.
I do not feel nervous inside at all so I would say I am not nervous
I know it will be a slow process from what I heave read everywhere
Dogs are in their other room sleeping
Virgil is thought to be about 8 yrs old.

The 1st time he was on the couch with me hanging out and hopped down to the floor. I stood up slowly and thats when he went after my feet.

The second time he was out on his cage door and tried to fly to me. He didn't make it and he landed on the floor. He turned and came charging right at my feet. He bit my ankle hard and when i reached down he turned to my hands and arms.

The last time he climbed down off his cage to the floor and was chasing people. We all quietly and slowly moved away till we were in the other room and just let him be. He eventually climbed back to his cage and went inside to eat.

So he probably was chasing them off/looking for a reaction. In the future, I would do my best to keep him from climbing off (but NOT by running over to touch him when he tries, or you are potentially rewarding with contact/attention if you are the one who touches him...if he possibly wants that)...could also be that he wants his own space etc.
It could have been territorial or attention seeking...very hard to know without seeing it.

Again ABC charting would really help (it's part of ABA)

Did he go after you, everyone else, or all of the above?

The fact that it happened after the couch and involved you makes me think hormones and defensive behavior. Don't let him on couches-- too shadowy...too little trust..too little structure too early on.

Can you put a seed skirt on the cage to prevent him from getting off of it on foot? I'd stick to bonding in a set location for now/building trust. don't push.

cockatoos can be real show-offs/clowns and many love a reaction, but it also isn't like they are so crazy that their feelings should be ignored, because even a crazy cockatoo feels legitimately justified in his/her feelings lol.

It's good that he's 8 because you know he's reached puberty and that means that it's easier (to some degree) to read him.

 

[Laurasea]

My Quaker goes after feet when she is on the floor, she thinks they’re not a part of me. But monsters out to get her.

Yiu can keep a hand perch for off the floor rescue instead of hands.

 

[Scott]

Welcome Branden and Virgil, nice to see new Goffins join the family!

Your care of Virgil and reactive instincts appear superb. Goffins actually love the floor and often prance about and "twirl" in position. Apparently a natural behavior and part of the feeding frenzy.

I suspect Virgil's aggression is a form of dominance seeking behavior. Prevention is best, teach him the floor is off limits. Whether he displaces that hostility elsewhere is conjecture but a good start.

Absolutely agree a stoic response to biting or bad behavior is best. A sharp "NO" and placement in cage for a short time-out is best.

 

[Virgil8320]

Hi Scott,

The last three days I have been doing clicker training with treats for him. I sit in a chair next to his cage and break up a nut and spend 10 mins or so with the clicker. I make sure to let him out 3-4 times a day for an hour or so.

Today no one was home and he was on my lap and was fine. He heard my cell phone vibrate and went right for it. Once I wrestled it away from him he got nippy, no blood but his behavior changed.

I spoke quietly too him and took him back to his cage.

He refuses to get on the play stand on the top of his cage or the PVC one I made from him.

I just gotta be patient with him.

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

[Scott]

Branden, you and Virgil are doing quite well considering he's been in your home barely a week!

Re-homed and particularly rescued parrots bring all manner of "baggage" from previous circumstances. It may take Virgil a few weeks or longer to acclimate and trust. While cockatoos are not domesticated, they tend to bond deeply and give wide latitude with handling. I feel confident you will overcome his terror while on terra firma!

His cellphone reaction is interesting, might have been startled. Goffins are capable of multiple mood changes literally in minutes. I find a quick distraction usually restores good nature.

Does Virgil show interest in toys placed in his cage or playstands? My Goffins are voracious wood chewers and convert macaw-sized blocks into toothpicks with gusto. I cut sections of 2 x 4s into foot-long slabs, drill a hole, and string with stainless steel chain. Might begin with colorful store-bought items to gage his interest.

 

[Virgil8320]

Hi Scott,

We bought him several large bird chew toys that hang in his cage. He just started chewing them in the last two days or so but hasnt really taken to them yet.

I cut up a bunch of ferring strips I had left over and drill some holes and hu\ng those with chains also. He took a few bites but thats it.

I plan to sit and talk with him as much as i can, handle him in short duration gradually getting longer. I just had him out for almost an hour on my lap. I let him rip up some paper and then watched as he tried to "ant" the smaller pieces. I noticed he started to get a little nippy so back to the cage he went.

 

[noodles123]

careful with your lap...highly hormonal location for many toos...Not saying you can't do it, but this early on, I wouldn't..you don't know your bird well enough to know if he is obsessed with you...and if he is...no good...the fact that he allowed it implies sexual interest to some degree.
That's also a really long time to be touching one...you are setting a precedent. I would focus more on interaction and less on sexual touching/physical contact.
You can't touch cockatoos for hours like that--they like it, but it's what ends up messing them up. You have to space it out and focus on play etc. Touching is okay, but not for more than like 15 minutes...even that is a lot.

 

[Virgil8320]

Noodles any tips on how I should interact with him. When I get him to step up he immediately goes for my shoulder. Sometimes I block it fast enough other times I don't. I will go sit in a chair then and he will crawl down to my stomach and start to preen. He will rub his head on my palm for a few mins then go back to preening or something else like ripping up the paper.

If I had to guess he rubbed his head on my hand a total of maybe 15 mins of out the hour but it was broken up.

 

[noodles123]

The following can apply if trust is established--you don't want to scare them:

I would pet on head and neck only and then do really silly dramatic song/dance etc lol (WITHOUT BEING SCARY--or just let him chill)! Keep him moving if he tolerates it (or talk to him, but don't stress physicality more than for a few minutes at a time)...and also be very theatrical if he likes it. Model playing with toys and basically be a cracked out pre-school teacher (unless it scares him) but even then, limit touching and lap sitting. Act like a member of the Wiggles if he is cool with it and that should keep him busy.

Do block him from your shoulder until you know him much better...even if he does trust you.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se5XcrG4S8s"]The Wiggles Nursery Rhymes - YouTube[/ame] LOLLLLL--This is my daily energy/vibe half of the time with my cockatoo and it works for her...Granted U2s are different, but I know you don't want an hour of lap contact...

Noodles doesn't listen to a ton of Wiggles, but it embodies the basic personality I have when I am with her...That having been said, she LOVES this song.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZKXMn-56e4"]The Wiggles: Toot Toot, Chugga Chugga, Big Red Car - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Virgil8320]

We are currently singing LALALALALAL head bobbing and dancing after a good short clicker training session

I know all about the wiggles from having 3 kids

 

[noodles123]

We are currently singing LALALALALAL head bobbing and dancing after a good short clicker training session

I know all about the wiggles from having 3 kids

lol "Big Red Car" is a hit!

Just basically treat him like a very interesting adult-child (LOL), without too much touching (because he will likely see too much contact as sexual).. You can touch him, but keep it sustainable and in short bursts (again, head and neck mostly- although a vet etc should be able to touch under wings..you just don't want to make that a habit). They need contact, but just because they want it and like it, doesn't mean they should get it for as long as they want.

 

[noodles123]

the whole thing is to build trust and take it slow until you get to a point where you can do this stuff, but it sounds like you may be there, which is why suggest interaction over touching (you SHOULD touch, when he is comfortable, but not as the primary form of interaction). You may be able to get away with a bit more touching w/ goffins, but I would still not do an hour.

 

[noodles123]

I also thought of something else I should have said last night. Dancing/singing is great (again, as long as you are at the point when it won't scare them), but it does hold some risk of being interpreted in a hormonal way as well by some birds---far less likely to stimulate them in the same way that extended touching/lap sitting can, but just be aware if he starts to seem weird that you might need to tone it down if it seems to be impacting behavior. Mine has never had an issue with it, but occasionally, there have been birds that view it as almost a mating dance lol--pretty uncommon, but something to remember. It's okay if they act silly and expressive when dancing---I mean if you started seeing major shifts in behavior

They can also get really excited and over-stimulated when having a lot of fun, which can lead to biting mid-excitement, so something else to be aware of...It doesn't mean they are hormonal just because they get over-stimulated...it just means they are over-stimulated like little kids can get overstimulated.

With my U2, I pet her consistently for like 5 minutes at a time---much more than that and she gets a bit sexual (even when it is head and neck).

If she does get sexual, I change the subject in a silly way to basically distract her and obviously stop petting her. Usually I also put her on her perch or cage top (without being mean about it).

Throughout the day:

We dance to a few songs in a row periodically , then maybe I try to get her to play with some toys etc while I sit nearby or talk to her from the other room off-and-on.

Sometimes she stays on my shoulder or back (I'f I'm working on the floor) for longer periods of time, but that doesn't trigger her because there isn't active petting and because she cant nestle into anything in those locations lol. Even then though, I keep it under 30 in a row because I don't want to create a more needy bird.

Training (like sorting colors, shapes, puzzles etc) or learning new things is another good way to interact with your bird that is not sexual.

Kind of like little kids though, when it comes to cockatoos, you kind of want to keep activities short and then move onto the next thing (so as not to wear out the novelty and keep it interesting). If you train too long, it will lose it's value and possibly frustrate the bird.

Mine spends a lot of her day on her cage top or play perches, but I often go play with her for 5 minutes etc--- I don't leave her unattended completely for long periods (as they can get into stuff) but I can hear what she's doing even if I walk off. She gets a lot of interaction, but it's spaced out unless I am working full-time- in which case time spent together has to be more concentrated during the week.

I move her around a lot as well. For instance, I work at my computer in the living room (she has a perch there)-- her cage is in the room next to that, so she has a clear view of me from both locations (as my desk is between them), but if I am working, I will still periodically pick her up and move her from one location to the other, even if she is content (just to change things up).

Another thing I do with mine to keep her entertained is walk around the house with her and show her various things/talk about them. She learned "outside outside" because I often walk with her to the window and we talk about things outside.

When I'm home, if she talks to me, I usually respond back in SOME way---even if it's just a little "hey" or something....Now if she screams, I'm not going to call back or respond to that, but I do try to respond do any acceptable vocalization.

If I am going to leave for a few hours, I say "going to the store" and she knows that phrase/associates it with shorter absences. If I am leaving for the majority of the day, I say "going to work". These rituals have helped her anticipate time-frames.

 

[Virgil8320]

Thanks for the ideas. I have been talking/interacting in the cage/short out of cage things for the last few days and there have been no issues. When he is out with me and I see the crest go up and he starts to get overly excited I will either district him with a toy or paper or just whisper to him. Ina few seconds he calms back down and goes back to preening or hanging out. During the day i am gone to work but my wife and kids are home and they all chat with him and go over and sit for a few and interact.

He refuses to go on his playtop stand on his cage or the perch on a tripod I made. I am thinking that whomever had him before allowed him on their shoulder all the time. Thats the first thing he wants to do when I get him out of the cage but now I am able to pinch(not hurting him of course) his foot to my forefinger with my thumb which holds him in place.

Hopefully once he gets the clicker=treats we can move onto touch training. I am hoping that with the touch portion I can mix in going on his perch stand.

We purchased all new black out curtains for both the front bay window and the rear bay window which is where Vigil's cage is. This seems to help him to go sleep faster. Occasionally I will hear a squawk through out the night but that could be because he hears and animal outside or some noise.

All and all I think how much work how he is helps me so much keep busy and destress from life. The little quick bits of affection and the interaction make it all worthwhile in my mind.

 

[noodles123]

Thanks for the ideas. I have been talking/interacting in the cage/short out of cage things for the last few days and there have been no issues. When he is out with me and I see the crest go up and he starts to get overly excited I will either district him with a toy or paper or just whisper to him. Ina few seconds he calms back down and goes back to preening or hanging out. During the day i am gone to work but my wife and kids are home and they all chat with him and go over and sit for a few and interact.

He refuses to go on his playtop stand on his cage or the perch on a tripod I made. I am thinking that whomever had him before allowed him on their shoulder all the time. Thats the first thing he wants to do when I get him out of the cage but now I am able to pinch(not hurting him of course) his foot to my forefinger with my thumb which holds him in place.

Hopefully once he gets the clicker=treats we can move onto touch training. I am hoping that with the touch portion I can mix in going on his perch stand.

We purchased all new black out curtains for both the front bay window and the rear bay window which is where Vigil's cage is. This seems to help him to go sleep faster. Occasionally I will hear a squawk through out the night but that could be because he hears and animal outside or some noise.

All and all I think how much work how he is helps me so much keep busy and destress from life. The little quick bits of affection and the interaction make it all worthwhile in my mind.

You have had him SUCH a short time that the fact he lets you touch him like that is crazy w/in 5 days-- I wouldn't assume anything about past owners so early in the game, as cockatoos can be very weird lol. Not saying they didn't, but hard to know in such a short period--you just may be well-liked, or in a honeymoon phase (either or). Unfamiliar objects can scare them even in the best scenario.

Mine is a different type of cockatoo, but you are moving at lightening speed, which is fine, as long as the bird allows it and as long as you have boundaries, but it often takes a while to get a feel.

 

[Scott]

Noodles any tips on how I should interact with him. When I get him to step up he immediately goes for my shoulder. Sometimes I block it fast enough other times I don't. I will go sit in a chair then and he will crawl down to my stomach and start to preen. He will rub his head on my palm for a few mins then go back to preening or something else like ripping up the paper.

If I had to guess he rubbed his head on my hand a total of maybe 15 mins of out the hour but it was broken up.

I suspect the shoulder will be Virgil's default location once fully bonded and trustworthy. As you know, shoulder privileges are earned due to potential for extreme face/neck damage.

 

[Virgil8320]

No shoulder privileges until we establish trust. The bites on my hands were hurtful enough I cannot even imagine what he would do to an ear,neck,lip etc etc


Right before bedtime last night he got a bit excited and when I went to rub his head I touched one of his nasty pin feathers and he give me a tiny bite. No blood just enough to say "hey that startled and hurts"


Being able to sit and just watch him has really helped me in my thought process so far as how i approach and handle him.