new plucker :( I'm running out of ideas

[macawmom]

I adopted a young macaw about 2 years ago. Her name is Maria and she is dna'd female and we are very bonded. I used to work with all kinds of parrots and would take her with me to schools and do educational programs with her on occasion But she never really socialized with the other parrots bc they had been a flock for years and just didn't like her..she started pulling out several wing feathers and lost so much blood she almost had to have a transfusion twice in one year but the incidences were months apart with no plucking between. She recovered both times after week long hospital stays and lots of test and still no answers. I got a new job and am able to spend more time with her at home but it's just getting worse she went from beautifully feathered to a few weeks later having a bare chest and constantly preening and plucking...she cries out when she pulls them out but goes right back at it.she even wore a cone of shame for a while.but no matter what I've tried and how many vets I've seen we haven't been able to help her its just getting worse. Ive worked with macaws my entire life and have never seen this from a bird that has no history of poor diet or improper husbandry. Several thousand dollars in vet bills have gotten me nowhere I Dont want this for her and she is obviously distraught even when being held and cuddled, she won't stop compulsively preening and plucking. I'm desperate for advice, and have been researching holistic treatments and am even considering keeping her on an anxiety medication one vet gave her for her recovery after a hospital stay. I hope someone has an idea we haven't thought of

 

[macawmom]

Also the last time she was hospitalized and this most resent plucking issue have been during molting..but the first was not. So I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it.

 

[Kiwibird]

Presuming the vet has ruled out medical causes, this is clearly a behavioral issue. And if you've had macaws for years, I assume you have her in an appropriate sized cage, lots of toys and foraging activities, plenty of out of cage time ext....

What stands out to me here is her lack of socialization with the other birds. Is it possible she is reacting to rejection in a severe way? Do you include her in any of your (human) "flock" activities such as showering, eating at the table, hanging out when you're watching tv ext....? Sometimes birds just want to feel included, and making some small changes significantly improves their behavior. Our zon was a pretty vicious bird when we got him and I feel including him in our daily activities significantly improved his behavior. He felt included and like we had accepted him into "our flock", so he began to bond and open up Parrots are highly social animals and very much react to (real or perceived) isolation and rejection.

 

[macawmom]

We didn't take more than one bird at a time, so the only time she was ever around them was when she would be perched near their aviary..which was rare. And I haven't worked there in almost 6 months. She has a double cage and spends time out on her perch and with us everyday. She shares food (my bananas/apples ect) and we work on flight training to/from her perch often. My boyfriend works with her a little but otherwise its mostly me. I have made foraging toys almost everyday and given her all kinds of things to destroy or play with but nothing distracts her. Even when I'm petting her and holding her she only stops for a second to give me kisses and then goes right back to it. So far 3 different vets have not been able to find a physical problem.

 

[macawmom]

The only thing I can imagine it being is hormonal . she has yet another vet appointment, this one is with my regular avian vet that I've been working with for years who has been unavailable for a while. She will probably fit her for a chestplate for now and hopefully have some ideas as far as why she is doing this.

 

[Kiwibird]

Have you seen those fleece collars for pluckers? Kind of a fleece "ruffle/fringe" collar that simulates feathers while preventing the bird from chewing their own feathers. Much nicer than plastic e-collars. It may be helpful to give her "preening" toys to chew besides her own feathers too They are big fleece things (about the size of a bird) with lots of fringe for the bird to chew up. MSBS sells them-http://www.mysafebirdstore.com/product.cgi?group=21066&product=21073

 

[weco]

The only thing I can imagine it being is hormonal . she has yet another vet appointment, this one is with my regular avian vet that I've been working with for years who has been unavailable for a while. She will probably fit her for a chestplate for now and hopefully have some ideas as far as why she is doing this.

Have any of the vets you've seen discussed endorphin rushes.....there has been several theories about companion birds getting cheap highs from feather plucking and from self-mutilation. Why would a bird attack his or her own body? Studies and theories abound. From boredom to allergies to parasites to a euphoric feeling. In the end, though, every case is individual and must be treated as such, usually via a long process of elimination. Every bird has his or her own story to tell – and, for the plucking and self-mutilating birds, the story is rarely pretty or easy to figure out.

Citing P. Jensen, from his work Stress I Djurvärlden. LTs förlag, Stockholm, Sweden (1996); Yasmine A. Bengtson, in her Master of Science thesis writes:

“Under-stimulated parrots have been observed biting their own feathers, not as in grooming behavior, more in self-mutilation….. Gorillas in zoos turn their backs on visitors and eat their own droppings. Mutilation and cannibalism can result from under-stimulation. Jensen (1996) suggests plentiful supplies of fresh hay to distract from this behavior, while the smell and taste of blood intensifies it.” Often self-mutilation is an extension of feather plucking, and it is far more dangerous to your bird. When mutilation starts, many times avian veterinarians will often try antidepressants and look for medical reasons for the behavior. When those fail, the bird is usually fitted with a collar to allow any wounds to heal, potential irritative causes themselves.

In some instances, all that is necessary is to resolve any problems between Pesky Parrot and his human flock or Pesky and other birds or animals in the flock/home or strengthen the bond between them.

There is a relatively new school of thought concerning the cause of plucking and self-mutilation, that the bird has figured out how create, for himself, a self-induced drug high. The pain created by the self-mutilation causes the release of endorphins.

Endorphins are natural pain relievers produced by the body. They are chemicals that calm you, relieve pain and make you feel good. Endorphins have been likened to the opiates of opium, codeine, morphine, and heroin.

Dr. David Spiegel, of Petpsych.com, offers: “…..as twisted as it may seem, by plucking their feathers, they have a reliable way that they can control and deliver feelings of pleasure to themselves. They have essentially learned how to access their body’s drug supply system, though they invariably pay a high price in the damage that they inflict upon themselves.”

Although the current research in this area, with relationship to parrots, is still in its infancy, and needs much more study, the theory is well based. These home-grown chemicals make it easier, in stressful situations, for you to think clearer. Tickling and laughter also release endorphins. If your bird purposely and recurrently injures himself, you can be sure there is something in the environment that needs changing. Are you or someone else int its flock or in the home the root of the problem? Sometimes a bird will stop hurting himself if the problems between Pesky Parrot and his human flock are addressed.

Tuffy, a moluccan cockatoo picked up on the stress that her companion human was experiencing and began mutilating herself while her human and their veterinarian tested and examined, trying to figure out what was causing Tuffy’s behavior. The mutilating had started in late October, 2000. By December she had a hole in her chest about the size of a silver dollar.

"One day I came home and there was blood all over; she had bitten in a vein on her wing and nearly bled to death. So back to the vet, this time to put a collar on her.....nothing seemed to work. Every day it was getting worse, and she was now chewing on her chest. The more she hurt herself, the harder she would chew, high on endorphins that her body released.

My life, and hers, fell apart when my husband and I split up. I guess, now, I know. all the stress I was feeling she also felt. It was too much for her, and she started to chew at her skin, under her wings and legs. Once it was determined that it was a behavioral problem and nothing medical, the next challenge was to design a collar that Tuffy would be happy with.. After about a hundred different designs….. a design was arrived at that Tuffy accepted."

 

[macawmom]

I have definitely looked into those, she loves to rip apart my clothes :/ so I don't have much hope on it lasting very long...she is the mega destroyer of anything and everything! Lol. But I may give it a shot! We are about to head to her appointment so I'll let you know what the vet says

 

[macawmom]

So the visit went well, except the cause is still up in the air. She believes Maria is indeed using the plucking as an endorphin high to relieve stress...now what is causing the stress is still unknown. Hormones, environmental stress, still no idea :/ but she has started her on a blend of essential oils for pain and stress. We have about a weeks worth so we will see if this helps. She has several previous pluckers that were dumped on her bc they were naked, and after 1 month of using the oils they haven't plucked since, even after she stopped using it. BUT since Maria has pulled out major blood feathers in her wings before (that's when she almost bled to death and was hospitalized both times) my vet isnt sure how long it will take or if it will even work..but fingers crossed it does! I'll keep this thread updated and thank you for your responses!

 

[Kiwibird]

Just a thought, but if she likes chewing clothing, do you have an old t-shirt you can cut up into strips? Then you could tie the strips together into kind of a "pom pom" and see if she might like something like that. If so, old t-shirts can be found dirt cheap at thrift shops, and it does't much matter the size or color. Inexpensive source of fun preening toys!

 

[macawmom]

SHE IS DOING BETTER!! I'm happy to say she is FINALLY responding to something! The essential oil blend has made an extreme difference in her behavior. She has been out with me doing chores around the house (our usual day off routine) and instead of the constant preening and plucking that has been going on for weeks, she has been playful and calm with not ONE feather plucked all day! If this keeps up we may be able to ride out what my vet thinks is young bird hormones.

 

[macawmom]

Just a thought, but if she likes chewing clothing, do you have an old t-shirt you can cut up into strips? Then you could tie the strips together into kind of a "pom pom" and see if she might like something like that. If so, old t-shirts can be found dirt cheap at thrift shops, and it does't much matter the size or color. Inexpensive source of fun preening toys!

She has one of those! I made it from old shirts of mine when they got stained or torn up (usually by her lol) and she plays with it occationaly ..I may make her a fleece on too her other may just be old news now and not as fun lol

 

[Delfin]

Macawmom
Birdman666 might be able to help.

 

[Hedgielady]

I too am macawmom (my email!) HA... And am also beside myself with my selfmutilating macaw. I too have an amazon, who does none of this, never has. She's yellow collar that I've had 13 of her 17 years. She "only" over groomed her chest feathers when I adopted her and now chew on her feet after plucking back and chest feathers bare. We've seen 3 avian vets over the last 8 months for her feet. She's had collars of all kinds, and her foot has been bandaged most of the last 3 months. The foot was finally healing, not infected, so I left it un-bandaged and for a few days she left it alone. Now it is bloody again. She's in pain and I shove meds down her beak and I'm in tears. I have to wonder if her life is worth this. She's on anti-anxiety meds and pain meds, as well as the newest: Neurontin for nerve pain. She loves to cuddle, is very affectionate to both my husband and me, hates the Amazon that she's been with since Hatching. (same breeder). Since I retired 2.5 yrs ago I'm home most of the time, thinking this help. Nope, it's just gotten worse. I do wish someone would come up with some answers.

 

[macawmom]

I too am macawmom (my email!) HA... And am also beside myself with my selfmutilating macaw. I too have an amazon, who does none of this, never has. She's yellow collar that I've had 13 of her 17 years. She "only" over groomed her chest feathers when I adopted her and now chew on her feet after plucking back and chest feathers bare. We've seen 3 avian vets over the last 8 months for her feet. She's had collars of all kinds, and her foot has been bandaged most of the last 3 months. The foot was finally healing, not infected, so I left it un-bandaged and for a few days she left it alone. Now it is bloody again. She's in pain and I shove meds down her beak and I'm in tears. I have to wonder if her life is worth this. She's on anti-anxiety meds and pain meds, as well as the newest: Neurontin for nerve pain. She loves to cuddle, is very affectionate to both my husband and me, hates the Amazon that she's been with since Hatching. (same breeder). Since I retired 2.5 yrs ago I'm home most of the time, thinking this help. Nope, it's just gotten worse. I do wish someone would come up with some answers.

I will ask my Vet which oils she used to make the blend I'm using...it really has made a complete change in her behavior. Since this is working so well, and her issues are always months apart, my avian vet is about 95% sure its hormones...but when she gives me the recipe for the blend I will post it! Also ONLY Young Living oils, there can be ingredients used to preserve other brands products that have caused kidney failure in birds! She was very specific about Young Living being the only bird safe brand!

 

[EnglishMuffin]

I'm so glad the essential oils worked and her issues are resolving

 

[EAI]

have ever considered buying a hand tame baby budgie to introduce a distraction to eventually live in the cage with her if she accepts the budgie it has been known to distract pluckers cheap trick may work you have nothing to lose all the best

(I don't mean to sound rude in this, so hopefully my tone in this won't come out that way)

Though there is a chance they might get along two different species of birds should never be housed together (even same species don't get along). There are pictures of different species of birds bonded together, but it could have been a one time thing. There are some chances that two species will get along fine - like RavensGryf's Poi and Pi, Raven and Griffin but they have been raised together and the specific temperament of a bird.

Pertaining to this case, a budgie and a macaw in the same cage would be (summed up) a horrid decision. I'm aware that budgies are great at being agile but when you put a Macaw's beak vs. a Budgie's beak you can something terribly wrong could happen. It could be one bite, and the results or horrifying.

But you aren't wrong with having another bird in the room to stimulate the feeling that she has flock members. I just think that having a pair of bonded (same sex) parakeets or another bird would be a good option. Having a bonded pair allows the sense of a community without the risk of any birds getting mangled as long as they are separated from contact.

But getting another bird has it's set backs, for starters you need to quarantine your new birds for potential diseases. This could be a month-six months depending on your choice and if there is a disease or not. And IMO, having a plucking macaw and another bird would make it hard to evenly distribute the attention to all the birds as you would have to spend a considerate amount of time caring for your macaw first.
And just my opinion, I wouldn't consider it a "cheap trick" because owning any bird requires lots of money, the 200 (minimal for a budgie) for the supplies and bird could also be used to help with medication or vet bills.

 

[EAI]

sorry budgies in Australia are $15 us and I didn't suggest it be put in the same cage until both birds were ready its a load of rubbish that macaws will not bond with other breeds they are no different to a cat or dog under the right conditions. you have dogs and cats together in the same house people on these forums talk about cats,dogs and birds together.you'd have to be close minded to think animals and birds cant coexist.go on youtube and see a budgie with macaw cleaning each other and living together happily and guess what the budgies boss.

I really hope I didn't start a fight, if I did or anything near that, please no that I had no intent on making anyone feel mad.

Since I'm in the US the prices tend to be higher (more if your'e looking for one hand reared and tamed). But when you compile the costs of the cage, toys, food ect. it gets quite costly. Even on a single Betta, I have already spent close to 100 dollars and I'm about 3/4 done.
I understand what you mean by "when they're ready" but even a close bonded pair (this goes to any pair of animals) will have fights. Keeping it close to home, my bonded pair of parakeets will occasionally get into a small bicker over food and will "bite" -- more like an open mouth warning attack -- my point is that if a macaw was to end up doing that to a budgie, the budgie could get seriously hurt. This kind of incident can happen to the same species or one that's of similar size. I met a women with a hyacinth macaw that was attacked by her scarlet and required a good amount of vet bills and the rehoming of her scarlet.
This could also when the macaw is playing. I think of it as a 10 year old playing with a 3 year old. There's a barrier on size and mentality where one or the other can't tell whats acceptable play and what's not. A macaw could be trying to play with a budgie but through it's larger beak and stronger capabilities a simple act of play could become a lost foot or mangled beak or wing. At the worst, a death sentence.
Again, I think your'e exactly right on how dogs and cats can coexist under the right conditions. But those conditions are either from chance or through training (more so done at a young age). From that view point, I think that a lot of animals can coexist but with birds and other animals and I don't protest it, both have to be extremely docile and harmonious with one another to make that happen. (Just to clarify, this is my own opinion and if you agree that's great and if you don't that's good too) Even with a completely well behaved dog/cat and bird theres always that slightest risk they'll misbehave and their saliva + birds don't mix. That's coming out towards the more paranoid side of me and my personal experiences.
About the video, I hope I got it right (the cornflakes?), the Macaw seems to get standoffish and makes a weak lunge. Budgies seem to be more of the bully so what would happen when the BG Macaw has enough and gets fed up? Thats a "what would happen" question it's thinking out the possibilities.

Again, my intent was not to make anyone offended or upset, but it's my opinion on the different species together (theres actually some good amount of debates on this topic), being more paranoid and having faced tragedies somewhat around on this obviously affects my precautions to this but I find that being safer than sorry is a wiser choice.



(I'm going to keep this short since I'm on my phone) I think this is going off on the wrong tracks from the original post and I hope the two of us has no hard feeling towards each other and i appreciate your opinion and in no means do I want to pose my beliefs on someone. I think it's easier if we PM'd rather than "spamming" and taking over this thread.

And I hope that your macaw has been improving to the point where she has stopped plucking or has made significant progress!

 

[JerseyWendy]

sorry budgies in Australia are $15 us and I didn't suggest it be put in the same cage until both birds were ready its a load of rubbish that macaws will not bond with other breeds they are no different to a cat or dog under the right conditions. you have dogs and cats together in the same house people on these forums talk about cats,dogs and birds together.you'd have to be close minded to think animals and birds cant coexist.go on youtube and see a budgie with macaw cleaning each other and living together happily and guess what the budgies boss.

There are bird SPECIES and dog BREEDS. No such thing as a bird breed.

Perhaps it would be wise to stay off YouTube. Lots of things are 'possible', however, many are NOT recommended.

How exactly do you think a budgie would 'fit' in a macaw cage? He/she would be able to squeeze right through the cage bars (in a macaw sized cage anyway).

 

[4dugnlee]

Sooooo.....how about that oil recipe?:54: My U2 is an over preener.

I'm so glad the oil worked with your macaw. I can imagine how worried you would be going through this with her. She's lucky to have you!