New Member (Kind of an owner?).

[emdalliance]

Hi all!

My name is Emily, I'm 20 and I'm from Worcester in England.

I wanted to join this forum because my grandad and my aunt have a lovebird who they've had for 8 or so years now. I wanted some advice really, as I believe when next move (I currently live in a brand new apartment so there's a NO PETS enforcement, but generally most privately rented properties in the U.K. are no pets) I will be having the lovebird if I can convince them to let her live her final days with me.

I have lots of animal experience, I'm a fanatic about getting things right. I have tonnes of experience with dogs and cats having grown up with them.
I also have a 160L aquarium in my bedroom housing fancy goldfish, just two of them, Velma and Scooby, a ranchu and an oranda respectively.
In my bedroom I have a 250L aquarium that's 6 foot long housing three rescue axolotls (I've owned axolotls for years).
I also own 5 degus (secretly). Two females (Pinky and Perky) who live in my proper cage, which is 6 foot tall, 5 foot wide and 3/4 foot deep. Then I have three rescues in single cages living alone in my living room. Poppy, Pickle and Kev. Kev was rescued after finding him for adoption in a pet shop basically being starved to death and mistreated. I got him neutered and he's just recovering/staying alone until he's ready to be allowed to meet females (6 weeks post op). Then all three will be living together in a home made cage, stacking 6 double layered modified to be degu friendly lazybones together.

I live in a secret zoo! Don't ask me what I have to do on inspection days (it makes me wanna cry with stress lol). I'm only allowed my two aquariums.

But anyway! My aunt and grandad have this lovebird, it was originally my nan's, who has passed away. They don't particularly like the lovebird, she's extremely aggressive. They hold on to her for sentimental reasons. She was in a TINY cage, for her whole life. On her own as for some reason they only bought one. No toys, just a swing and some perches. Fed just a lovebird seed mix from Pets at Home. Rarely cleaned out.

Now for as long as I can remember, I've cleaned her out probably once a month. I don't drive, they live in the rural countryside, so I go with my mom when she visits (primarily so I can check on the bird because it worries me). So she's been cleaned out since my nan died around once a month, at the max really. If I don't do it, it's not done.

They have never given her new food every day, or clean water every day (I have no clue how she's alive and hasn't displayed any depressed behaviours). Even now that I'm older and I have researched the bird a little and birds in general, I have told my aunt that captive birds don't forage like wild birds, they won't go through the seed and find good seed amongst the empty shells, they just see empty shells and presume there's no food. She still doesn't do it every day - she just lies to me.

I made my aunt buy her a bigger cage. I was at a pet shop with my mom and I said to my aunt on FaceTime that I'm not leaving unless she agrees to buy this love bird a new cage. Her old cage was probably two foot tall, a foot across and half a foot deep. Tiny. Managed to persuade her to buy this cage which was way bigger, but still fit in my grandads windowsill. It made me much happier. Since then I've slowly been buying toys and better perches. She now has a coconut to sleep in, all different shreddable toys, noisy toys, natural wood toys. She has perches that are made of plastic, made of knobbly wood, made of rope, a long wavy wooden thing to walk across, made of smooth wood etc. I've also done some research on lovebird diet and I ordered loads of separate ingredients and spent 3 hours making up bags of food mixes that are ready to use. Loads of fruit and veg, seeds, nuts, herbs etc etc plus her old seed in the mix. She gets treat sticks, natural ones with fruit in and also millet.

I'm here basically to learn more about lovebirds and if there's any hope that I can tame her. She's 8 and she's never been handled except for once when I caught her in a towel to move her from her old cage to the new cage. She didn't resist or bite at the towel once I caught her. I was very gentle and caught her so that I could wrap her in the towel so she'd feel safer, kept her upright too as I know they feel vulnerable on their backs. She let me stroke her head. Then I put her in her new home. But generally speaking she'll bite anyone through the bars, nastily. If my grandad or aunt put their arms in the cage for XYZ reason she goes for them. Whereas I can clean her cage out and she just sits behind her mirror watching me and whistles and says "pretty polly". I'm guessing she likes me? If I go really close to her with my fingers (close enough she doesn't have to move to bite me) she'll lean towards my finger to bite it, but she always gives me enough warning to move away.

She's never had her wings clipped etc, I'd just love to have her asap and hopefully teach her and train her to be even mildly manageable by myself, so she can come live with me when I move (I finish uni soon, I have one more year then I'll be able to get a full time job and move again), and she'll be able to fly around and have hours of free time every day.

Thanks for reading!!!






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[emdalliance]

Here is a photo of the new cage the day I got it to my aunts (it's got many more toys and perches in now, I forgot to take photos yesterday). It's much bigger in person than it looks lol. I'll try and find the measurements online.

http://www.petscorner.co.uk/pet-bird/homes/ferplast-greta

That's a link to the cage I think. I know rounded tops are bad for lovebirds, I tried to get her to have a flat top, but it was a dome top cage or nothing at all.

Her old cage was half that size at least.


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[Kentuckienne]

I love you. And the little lovebird will learn to love you, too.

 

[emdalliance]

Me and the lil' lovebird. I wish she had a name she'd just taken a bath before she needed to be moved, typical lol. The photo was taken because that was the first time anyone had picked her up, even if it was in a towel. I've had my fair share of rodent bites, so I wasn't scared. It's my problem not theirs if they feel they need to bite me.

@Kentuckienne Thanks! I'm glad to be here! It's very strange being a newbie, I'm a Forum Helper on the Degu & Chinchilla World Forum, but it's nice joining somewhere new and starting a new journey with new people!


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[Kentuckienne]

She doesn't have a name? Name her! She's gorgeous from the neck up, and looks happy to be held. I bet she's never had pin feathers preened on the back of her head. She has no idea what joys are in store.

 

[emdalliance]

I suppose I could name her! But it would have to be agreed upon with my auntie. [emoji58]

She's such a cutie. I love her. I've always wanted birds, I find them fascinating, so smart! When I'm there I play with her from outside her cage, pass her things to shred and she shreds them in neat lines and when she's around the time she's going to lay eggs, she pokes it all into her feathers and it makes me giggle.

I hope she's enjoying her new toys that I put in yesterday! Her cage looks much better and her food looks good enough to die for [emoji5] My aunt keeps saying she's not eating, but then doesn't listen to me when I say she has to have clean bowls of food every day. But I do the best I can.

She's about 8 now, so I'll hopefully have her by the time she's 9 or 10. I know that's a whole year or so away, but we don't have the money to move now and we also have to find somewhere nice that will consider 2 aquariums, 5 degus and then a lovebird lol. Everywhere just has blanket "no pets" bans and it's really depressing. [emoji20]

What else can I do to make her caged life a bit better when I can go see her? She enjoys opening peanut shells, she loves shredding things, I always bring a load of toilet roll tubes I've saved up after dishing them out to my degus.

I wonder if she can have apple branches, I'm guessing so if she can eat apple? I have about 200 large apple sticks that my friend cut from her dads tree for my degus, which they love shredding the bark off of. I'll have to take her some next time!

Am I okay to post for asking advice on training in another section? I know training doesn't work when I'm only seeing her once or twice a month. But I can learn tips and techniques for when she moves in with me.

So far from what I've been reading, it's much like degu taming, if degus had wings lol.


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[Kentuckienne]

Peanuts in shells are bad, actually. Peanut shells harbor fungi which can make birds very sick,such as aspergillosis. Apple branches might be iffy, because the trees are usually sprayed with dormant oil and fungicides/pesticides. Maple is good, if you can find some, you do want to sterilize the branches in the oven if possible (don't set the house on fire, it just needs to be above the boiling point of water!). Also Popsicle sticks, craft sticks, I don't know what you would call them over there, are available in craft stores and little birds like to chew them.

The egg laying can be very dangerous. Read up on "egg binding". Sometimes an egg gets stuck in the tract, you might see the bird sitting and panting or looking distressed or there might not be many symptoms,but left untreated it will kill the bird. Others can give you more advice - as I recall you want to remove anything from the cage that the bird might treat as nest material to discourage the egg laying. And if she does lay an egg, leave it in there so she will sit on it and maybe not keep laying. The search function on the forum menu will retrieve lots of related posts on the subject.

 

[emdalliance]

Oh. [emoji20] Shan't be given her any more peanuts in shells then, presumed as they're an okay nut to give, the shells would be okay as they are for degus (they have extremely delicate stomachs and have to have super carefully picked diets). I'll stop presuming now.
I'll have to remove it from all her food mixes because it came in a store bought pre-made mix (not one made by me) and de-she'll them.

The apple branches are free from all of those things you mentioned, it's just from an apple tree in my friends garden, it's never sprayed with anything. I wouldn't have them for my degus otherwise! x garden trees in the UK are often left to their own devices except for trimming, I don't know anyone who sprays their garden with anything lol. So would they be good for her? I'm not great at identifying trees and I wouldn't want to risk it, so she'd be limited to apple.

She has got maple wood in her toys though.

Yeah I know egg laying is bad, she's done it twice (maybe only once) in her life as they don't give any nesting material. I'm not there to watch or look so I can't really help her in that department for now. My aunt always removes the eggs I do know that. I'll have to tell her if it happens again to leave them in.

Thanks!




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[GaleriaGila]

I like your style, EmilyDalliance.
I love how you are reaching out so open-mindedly and sincerely.
The SEARCH tab above is a great resource... pick a topic and find all sorts of useful theads on diet, toys, health, play, training...
I foresee a great relationship for you and... Lovie! Sorry, couldn't resist.
Lovebirds can live to be 20 and older, so you'll hopefully have many good years together.

 

[EllenD]

Well first of all I've gotta say that you rock! Thank you so very, very much for taking responsibility for this beautiful little lovebird. And please, as step #1, NAME HER!!! I can't believe your aunt and uncle have had her for 8 years and never gave her a name! What do they call her? I think I know the answer to my own question, they don't call her at all . So sad. But you're damn right she likes you, you're the only person that has shown her any love or attention at all!

Birds are very, very different than dogs, cats, small animals or rodents, reptiles, etc. (I love degus by the way, they're adorable! You don't see too many over here but they are becoming more popular in recent years). Birds are first and foremost extremely intelligent, and most small birds like your little baby have intelligence equal to that of a ~3 year old human child, larger birds like cockatoos and macaws equal to a 4-5 year old child. They are also very sensitive, emotional, and are flock animals that in captivity want to be amongst people all the time. They generally form a strong, close bond with one person that is "Their Person" or their mate, and there is little doubt that since you started spending time with her, cleaning her cage (very important, thank you again!), feeding her, talking to her, etc., she has chosen you as her person (probably her first person ever since I have a feeling she has had little to no human interaction in the 8 years of her life, which makes me so sad, birds need love). If you were living with her right now and spending your days and nights with her, giving her 3-4 hours of out of cage time per day and DIRECTLY interacting with her for 3-4 hours a day, she would be a totally different bird. And she will be, in time. Lovebirds can live for 20+ years, average I believe is 15-20 years with good nutrition (you're on top of this), so you'll have many years to have her be a part of your family.

To answer your question, you can absolutely tame her!!! In fact, that poor bird has probably been dying for stimulation, attention, and interaction all her life! I'm sure you've noticed her come out of her shell since you've started spending time with her, and honestly just by you talking to her directly (in all seriousness, this is why a name is important ASAP), opening her cage up to clean it and to feed her, having your hands inside her cage (btw, thanks for demanding a much more appropriate cage for her, it looks perfect for a lovebird), just you doing what you've been doing has already started the taming process. And I'm so sad that this poor little bird had no toys for 8 years, and this was in addition to no interaction, no talking to her, no name... It's none of my business, but why in the world did they get her to begin with and then keep her like that? She's not a piece of furniture or art to decorate their house...I'm sorry, but it upsets me. A bird that has no interaction with other birds or with people, that isn't spoken to, that basically just exists by itself inside a cage can entertain themselves and will actually bond closely with a favorite toy, usually one that has a mirror on it or is a plastic bird replica. But this little intelligent baby had nothing and was no doubt absolutely bored to death. Can you imagine having a 3-4 year old toddler and not giving them a single toy to play with? Uhg. It's not your fault at all, I'm sorry, I'm passionate about this topic...But you're my new hero! I guarantee you that within 6 months or less you can have her stepping-up onto your finger, sitting on your shoulder (with her beak grinding away in happiness), eating from your hand (and your dinner plate), giving you kisses, and lowering her head for you to request scratches! Pretty soon you'll have no need for the towel unless you're clipping her nails or her wings (if you are wanting to start taming her, you'll want to try to completely stop using the towel and also completely stop chasing her, it scares them greatly and makes it impossible to earn their trust).

How often do you see her, and how long do you get to spend with her when you go? Do you want to start taming her now? It's a great idea, so that in a year or so when you get to finally bring her home, you'll be ahead of the curve! It won't be quite as easy as it would be if you were living with her or seeing her every day, but as long as you're consistent with the times and time periods you're spending with her you'll do great!

If you want we can give you suggestions for starting her hand-taming, there are several different methods of doing this and a lot of deciding what method to use will depend upon how often you see her and how long you spend per visit. The most crucial piece of advice I can give you to follow right before you start hand-taming her is to get her wings clipped. This is a controversial topic but you'll find that a lot of people agree with me. I'm only talking about clipping her outermost 4-5 primary flight feathers on each wing, this will keep her from elevating but still allow her to safely glide to a landing without dropping like a stone or slamming in to anything. You know how I said that you should stop toweling her and stop chasing her if you're wanting to hand-tame her? Well that's because you need to completely earn her trust, this is step one. And it's impossible to earn her trust if you're scaring her or chasing her around the room, yelling at her, trying to get her to come to you because you need her to not fly away in order to train her. Clipping her wings just prior to the start of her hand-taming training accomplishes a lot of things, but most importantly it will keep her from being able to constantly fly away from you and you constantly chasing her around the room, scaring her, and more importantly it will require her to rely upon you! She should get 3-4 hours out of her cage per day as a bare minimum. If she can fly, then she'll just fly off, land on something up high, and not spend any time with you, or you'll again be chasing her to try to get her to be with you. And then comes the time for her to go back inside her cage...And out comes the towel and you chasing her, and this can go on for hours. Now, imagine her outermost 4-5 primary flight feathers on both wings are clipped and you are starting her training and giving her her daily out of cage time and interaction with you. You open her cage up and either just step away and let her come out on her own, or you use a long, wooden perch to have her step-up onto. She comes out and goes on top of her cage, and you sit in a close chair and just simply talk to her or better yet read to her. She tries to fly off and away from you at first, but instead she just glides to the floor. Now she realizes that she can't fly right now and she wants to be back on top of her cage. You bend over, slowly stick your index finger just above her feet, lightly touching her belly with it, and she steps right on it! Why? Because she knows she must now rely upon you to get around. She can no longer just instinctively and constantly fly away from you, but rather she sits near you, listening to you talking to her and reading to her, she will now reach over to eat millet from your hand, etc. Before you earn her trust, when you first start taming her, if she can fly away, she will fly away. It's just a natural instinct and it only causes your reaction of chasing her around for hours, scaring her, lessening her trust of you each time, and ultimately ends in you toweling her again because you have to in order to get her back into her cage. It will take 3-4 months for her wings to fully grow back in, and you will easily have her not only hand-tamed but also bonded closely to you in that time period with regular time spent by you. Then after her wings grow back in you don't need to ever clip them again, as you will no longer need to chase her, she'll actually fly to you when you call her (probably when you don't call her but rather just because she wants to), she'll have learned to go back in her cage when she's told, and she'll also just want to sit on your shoulder, your lap, or on the couch next to you while you watch TV, read, etc. She won't fly away from you, she will fly at this point simply because she wants to, to explore, to get around your house, and to come to you when you call her, or to go find you when she can't see you. I have 4 larger birds, all of which I brought into my home as very young babies that were hand-raised from 2-3 weeks by their breeders, and even though they were all already hand-tamed to the point they all stepped-up onto my finger on day one, they all say on me and wanted attention from day one, I still clipped them all after a week or so of allowing them to fly around my house and explore. Then I clipped them and started training them. I also bred cockatiels and budgies for many years, and I pulled the babies at 2-3 weeks old and hand-raised them myself. And I now have my last clutch of 7 budgies that I bred, hand-fed, and hand-raised a little over a year ago. After they all fully fledged and were flying for about 2 weeks I clipped them as well, just that one time, to train them and socialize them.

If you have any questions at all about anything please do not ever hesitate to ask or make a new post. This is a wonderful forum that is totally unlike any other bird forum you'll find. The members in this forum truly love their birds as they live their children, and they always approach every situation, every question, every problem thinking about what is in the best interest of the bird!

"Dance like nobody's watching..."

 

[OutlawedSpirit]

Welcome! I am glad you have joined us, and thank you for all that you are doing. Not all situations are ideal when it comes to being able to rescue a bird from a poor quality life, and sometimes we have to settle for doing what we can. So first, please don't feel bad that you can't take her home with you right now. What you are doing is amazing and has probably changed the world for that pretty girl. You have already received some wonderful advice on the basics of starting to earn her trust and getting her used to you handling her, so I'll leave you with the advice you've been given in that regard.

Just to put your mind at ease a little bit, although she should have her food changed out daily, pet birds will dig through the dish if they are hungry to find whole seeds or other goodies buried under empty hulls. And please do give her a name. Whether they use it with her or not is really out of your control, but then at least she will have one when you see her. It really will help reinforce your bond with her. It will help her realize that you are addressing her, as she comes to associate you saying her name when interacting with her.

Again, thank you for all that you are doing for her. To you, it may not seem like you are able to do much, but I guarantee to her it means everything.

 

[Luckyandjenn]

Way to go on showhing that poor bird some much needed love keep up the good work and welcome to the flock

 

[Violet_Diva]

Hello, I too live in a 'secret zoo'
Thanks for looking out for this little beauty, I'm always pleased to hear of people getting bigger cages, I really feel it makes a big difference in feathered lives! Looking forward to more stories and photos from you

 

[Allee]

A warm welcome and a huge thank you, Emily! I love that you are doing so much to improve the life of a beautiful little bird that needs a friend. I have a feeling you and the lovie will have a long and happy future together.

 

[emdalliance]

@GaleriaGila thanks! I hope she does live to around 20, I'll have a good few years with her then!

@EllenD thank you so much! Apparently my nan used to call her Beaky, so that's what I'll call her. I asked my aunt to start calling her that but she said she doesn't need a name. So I'll call it her.

Degus have the intelligence of a 3 year old human too!

She hasn't had much human contact no, she's in my grandads room, he's in there a fair bit as he's disabled, I think he does talk to her, but he mainly just listens to her and watches telly. It makes me sad too, it makes me cry sometimes.

I can't remember exactly what I put in her food mixes, basically I made a mix of everything I found on safe lists that were okay to give daily, including different nuts and seeds, veg, herbs, fruit..

I'm glad you think she can be tamed! I read on lots of places that birds that have never been tamed past a certain age can never be. When I took her in the kitchen on Wednesday (yesterday) she perked right up, my aunt and grandad and my mom were in there all talking and she was on a table able to see everyone and I was cleaning her out. She was making noises I'd never heard her make, and they definitely sounded happy. Plus she was saying "pretty polly" at me over and over, my nan taught her to say it and she will only say it for people she knows. But never ask it of her, she just looks at me and says it and sings.

All she had for eight years was a few perches and a swing and a mirror in a tiny cage.

My nan bought her, my nan loved her but didnt know much about bird keeping. My nan talked to her constantly but my nan died about 6 years ago now. My aunt and grandad keep her because my nan loved her.

She loves her mirror. That's probably what she bonded to.

I knew chasing her with the towel scared her, I knew it would. It was the only way to get her out of her tiny cage without hurting her though, I burritoed her in it like I would a degu, firmly but not at all squashing her with just her head out. I also didn't make any noises, just calmly said "it's okay". Chasing a degu also scares them and doesn't exactly help them trust you. I've also noticed the taming techniques are virtually the same for birds and degus, so that shouldn't be a problem for me! I don't tire easily and nervousness doesn't dishearten me, I have five of the silly things after all [emoji13]. With a degu you sit by their cage for hours, talking, reading or doing your work etc, then after they stop bothering about you being sat there, you put your hand on their cage and continue for a few days, then feed them treats through the bars after they've sniffed your hand, then you move on to sitting there with the cage door open for a few days until you're ignored. Then you put your hand by the door with treats on, daily until they aren't fussed about running up to your hand and grabbing a treat. Then you do a hand in the cage with a treat, or up your arm so they have to climb closer to your whole body. Same process. Then you put the treats on a body part they have to walk across to get to, and they'll eventually just walk to it and sit and eat it rather than rush back to the cage. Or you can just touch them and handle them constantly without harming them and they'll trust you (not the advised way, I've only done it once with a degu I rescued from literally a 6 week old baby, so I didn't need to gain the trust of an "adult" or a teen. She's the only one I can scoop up from above and she doesn't get scared). They're prey animals and so picking them up from above scares them. You have to let them come to you, or train them to walk into a tube or tub. Then they come out onto your lap on the sofa, or out for playtime in my hallway! I love my relationship with my degus, I'd love to have similar with Beaky. I have two degus who I can't pick up, don't like fuss (the majority of degus are like this) and I still love them just as much, they will come out if I get them in a tube but they just like to run over me and then run through the dressing gown in my sleeves and up my back lol. My other three all love fuss, Pickle is the tiny one I can scoop up and she comes out on her own as soon as I open the door onto my knee. She loves fuss but she's a tinker and she'll bite you (not hard, playfully) for no reason. The others bite (nastily) like all degus will if you really really scare them. But their other biting is just grooming and it's their way of "fussing" you back, they just get a bit vigorous sometimes lol!. Kev is still skittish (my new rescue boy) but will let me fuss his chubby cheeks. Poppy is my baby (if I had to pick then she's my favourite) and she cries if I come close and don't fuss her. It's mainly because they're all three of them on their own. But even when they're together (6 weeks time) because they appreciate me and see me as a degu now they'll still let me fuss them despite having degu company. I'd love to show you them!!!

I only see her for an hour and a half, the time I clean her out really (it's always a state that's why it takes so long and I clean every single bar everything lol). Once a month, or every three weeks. I'd love to start taming her now, but I have to go when my mom goes and my mom cleans for my aunt (she's a hoarder so) and then we leave once mom is done because she's exhausted, having to do my aunts house (7 bedroom house), work full time as a Parkinson's Specialist Nurse understaffed and clean her own house.

But I'll do everything I can in the mean time. Also... I found a ground floor apartment just.. going to view it tomorrow. I love it. My priority is them accepting my aquariums and my degus being accepted. I might very quickly mention the possibility of a little bird.

Suggestions would be great! I totally understand the wing clipping thing, all birds I follow on IG and so forth have them clipped. It sounds like I have the best people for advice here!

@OutlawedSpirit thanks! I'm trying. [emoji173] if I do move to this apartment I'm hoping they won't mind a small caged bird, two giant aquariums and erm a number of degus [emoji55][emoji28]



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[SassiBird]

Bless you for being Beaky's advocate!
You can start training anytime. She will remember from month-to-month. Target training is the method that I prefer. You can start by targeting her around her cage. No matter what training you decide to use, you will need to find a food she loves and reserve it for training only.

 

[Flboy]

Thank you so much for understanding the needs of this fellow creature! You are so welcome here!

 

[emdalliance]

I know she loves millet, she also will pretty much bite at anything though lol, but as far as I know millet is something she will eat 100%, I'd hate to restrict it to training times only as literally as soon as I put fresh in she's dived on to it, happily nibbling away.

I gave her maybe it was a walnut? I can't remember. I googled it and it was safe as I saw my grandad had a pack (untreated not salted or anything), and she liked that. Don't quote me on walnut although I'm sure it was. I could break one into tiny pieces as they're relatively soft and use that! She's only ever had it that once and she definitely liked it. [emoji5]

@Flboy thanks for the lovely welcome message [emoji173]


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[fowlstack]

If she sits and speaks "pretty polly".. her name may already be Polly! Best of luck with her in the future.

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[Scott]

Welcome to the forums Emily, and thanks for a delightful introduction! Always enjoyable to learn about unfamiliar companions, so I spent some time reading about Degus and Axolotls!!

You have already made a huge difference in Beaky's life and hopefully you will soon become her parront! While I have no experience with lovebirds, they have enormous and often unappreciated potential. No doubt you will make the balance of her years so happy.