New Girl, Needs help with her blue fronted amazon and his anger problems.

[aylaxxrose]

Hi, I'm Ayla. I'v never used a forum before so I'm not sure if I'm doing this right. So maybe I should just get to the point. I have a blue fronted amazon named Jade. We have a very very love hate relationship. My dad got him when I was around 8ish. He was being abused by his previous owners boyfriend. I guess he used to throw things at him. Jade.. he's.. well hes an asshole. I have tried and tried and tried again to be his loving friend and he just acts like a jerk. He will not go inside his cage. well I take t hat back he does now. but when we first got him my dad tried putting him in his cage and locking it and he went psychotic. so we never lock him in there. he now will go in there to play and eat, otherwise he likes to spend his time on top of the cage or on his perch. He doesnt have his wings clipped but he never really flies off his cage. unless he gets startled. this, this is all understandable. whats not, is why whenever I walk past his cage he charges me. or when I try to feed him he tries to bite me. or when I'm talking he started screaming on the top of his lungs. and its not just me, he does it to my dad and my boyfriend too. anyone he has ever encountered. not hes not 100% asshole bird all the time. theres a slim 2% of the time where he is just so sweet. I know when hes in a "i want your lovin" mood cuz he'll get all squinty eyed and just kinda stare at me and thats when i test the waters and pet his back, and if its a go he'll let me pet his head and scratch his neck and cheeks and he loves it! I just wish he was this loving all the time. We have a few animals in the house also but they dont bother him. we have cats! dogs! they never ever bother him, even if he flies off his cage on the floor they just stare at him. either they know he packs a punch with his bite or they know they'll be in deep **** if they try to hurt him. anyways my point to this long as hell post is I dont know what to do. I'v given up. its to the point where I'm scared of him. I know these birds can be great loving birds and playful and sing and all that but he's just so angry! he does talk a little. when he really really wants something he'll say hi there or hi dad. like if your cooking and he wants something your making he'll start doing that. otherwise it's loud squaking and screaming when he's pissy which is like most of every day. so can anyone help me?! I'm desperate. I will say even though he acts like an ass all the time, and this is cute, when your in the room he refuses to play with his toys. He acts like he hates them, but when you leave the room I'll hear the bells on the toys jingling and ill sneak a peak and he'll be happily playing and then he"ll notice me and come out of his cage and just sit there like nothing happend lol. its cute.

 

[aylaxxrose]

oh, so I mentioned we got him when I was around 8, dont know if it'll help but I'm 21 now so we've had him for around 13 years..

 

[sodakat]

What an interesting introduction! I have 3 questions.

How long has he lived like this with you and your dad? -- NM you answered that in 2nd post. 13 years.

Why are you wanting to make a change now?

What are you hoping will be the outcome of this effort to understand Jake?

 

[aylaxxrose]

since we got him. he was doing really really good for awhile. first he only trusted my dad, but as I got older and took on the role of feeding him and cleaning his cage etc he learned to trust me. He used to let me pe thim more often and take him off his cage. now idk! we did move about a year and a half ago, and I know it probably stressed him out reallly bad. I want to make a change because I'm a huge animal lover, and its either get rid of him or figure something out. I could never give him away. As much as he makes me mad with his mean behavior hes my bird. I'm older now, I wanna figure what to do. I live in northern minnesota, not alot of tropical birds up here and we didnt have internet for the past 2 years. and I was a teenager, so I never bothered to figure out how to help the situation. and I'm hoping to earn his trust. I dont expect him to sit on my shoulder and sing songs to me. but I'm hoping for him to attack me less, and let me pet him more. I just dont want him to be so miserable!

 

[aylaxxrose]

and his name is Jade. OR her name.. we dont really know fersure if Jades a boy or girl, but I was doing some research earlier and I'm leaning torwards boy.

 

[weco]

You say he used to have a better attitude. There could be some problems from the move, but two years is usually long enough for a bird to get used to the new home, unless there's stress, yelling, lots of noise, etc. New animals, dogs, cats or even other birds can cause anxiety in some birds.....

For some birds, it's breeding season and the frustrations from that sure don't help bird attitudes. You say you are becoming afraid of him.....birds will pick up on that & exploit it to their best advantage. The screaming while you're talking is an attention thing.....it's a bird's version of a child's temper tantrum.....somewhere along the line Jade has been allowed to control the situation & get progressively worse.

Study up on clicker training & try that, but if someone doesn't try to regain control, it sure won't get any easier trying to calm him/her down.....

Good luck

 

[aylaxxrose]

well hes never had a problem with the animals. they all have an understanding and respect for eachother. the yelling part i agree, whenever me and my dad start argueing thats when he gets the loudest. but as for noise idk, i used to have his cage near a corner of the our living room by the window and stairs and he was alwaysssss pissed off. so a couple months ago i moved him near the kitchen and he seemed alot happier. he likes to see whose coming in and out of the house since the main door is in the kitchen, he likes to see what were cooking and things like that. he used to love listening to the tv in our old house. but here he seems really irriated by it. i agree about what your saying that jade has been allowed to control the situation. my dad tells me that all the time. becuase of him trying to attack me and bite me when i change his food and water i usually have my dad do it now. i think he knows that he intimidates me and uses it to his advantage. i will deffinitly look up the clicker training. i only thought that worked for dogs but i guess not. i just want him to be more relaxed and at ease and as i said earlier have him trust me more. he has his good days but it seems like he mainly has bad days.

 

[MikeyTN]

Some birds can be sexist, does he do the attack with guys too?

 

[sodakat]

I love your answers! Jade is so lucky to have you.

I live in northeastern South Dakota and personally know no other person with parrots either. Long drive to a vet!

Jade would probably love clicker training! Will he take a treat from your fingers nicely? If not you may have to use a wooden skewer to hand him the treat instead, because you need to present the treat immediately after clicking and bloody fingers would mess that up.

You can buy a clicker online if you can't find one at a pet store nearby. I think that would be an excellent way to start. I was just telling Josh in another thread that the place to start with clicker training is helping the bird associate the sound of the clicker with getting a treat. They call it "charging the clicker".

Usually the next step is having the bird touch his beak to a chopstick or pen you are holding close to him, just far enough away that he has to extend his neck a bit to reach it, but not move his body. As soon as he touches the stick you click/treat.

There are clicker groups on Yahoo and probably elsewhere, but you can learn most of the techniques on YouTube and reading online.

I'm so happy you are trying to make Jade's life better!

--Kathy

 

[henpecked]

Hey Ayla, welcome to the forum. It sounds like he doesn't like most peoples, that's OK we can fix that. If he doesn't like girls ,it may take a bit longer but i'm sure you can win him over. It's great you deal with him on a daily basis. Your lucky he likes pets from you. You should use that to your advantage. When he wants pets, give him less than he wants, leave him wanting more from you. He's used to running things around your house and telling everyone else what he wants. He thinks he's the big bird. You start playing hard to get ,the more he wants from you. Take charge more, heck tell him NO once in a while. Because he wants pets from you, he'll do more to get them when your deciding how much and when.

You should read though some of the older threads in the amazon section. Many great members here who'll be glad to help. Hope to see you around.

 

[aylaxxrose]

Thanks everyone! all this feedback is giving me hope. I think i will deffinitly try the clicker! I'll try to look at the feed and seed (closest thing to a petstore we have) and see if they have one otherwise I'll deffinitly get one offline. I can t decide if hes sexist or not. becuase like I said sometimes he really likes attention to me, but I'v noticed hes alot more well behaved with my dad. like when my dad changed his food and water jade will keep a distance, rather with me he tried to bite me or charge at me, and when he does try to do that with my dad my dad tells him no and he usually backs off. I've tried telling him no, yelling at him, and ignoring him and it doesnt work for me. lucky me to get stuck with a sexist bird lol. If anyone has more tips please keep them coming, the more ideas I have the better. Once I get a clicker I will update and let you guys know how its working

 

[aylaxxrose]

Oh and yes he takes treats from me nicely. He's very gentle when it comes to that. one of my friends also suggested that he could be territorial of his cage, and that maybe trying to interact with him away from his cage might help. but theres no way in hell he would let me take him off, and I dont want to shove a stick in his face and make him angry before hand. Maybe that will be the next step after the clicker.

 

[sodakat]

I use a folded rope perch to transport my birds who are hand shy. I offer the folded loop to the bird and clasp the two ends with the screw caps in my hand. Some rope perches are more rigid than others and those are the ones that make the best transport perch, IMO.

I offer the folded end while asking for a step up. Then I move the bird away from the cage. However, I normally wait until the bird has exited the cage on their own and are either sitting on the open door or front top.

It *might* be easier to do clicker training away from his cage if he is comfortable somewhere else.

I'm excited that you are going to try this. Once you charge the clicker and work on him touching a chopstick or something with his beak, it sounds like targeting a spot for him to travel to might be a good idea. This way you can have him move before you service the cage. When he understands that touching the tip of the chopstick will result in a reward, he'll probably move towards the stick regardless where you hold it.

Good luck!

 

[aylaxxrose]

I think its a good idea to take him away from the cage becuase he's a bit friendlier, but it seems like he just wants to go back to his cage. cuz thats when he'll keep trying to step up on my hand becuase usually when he flies off his cage, i use a stick or my hand to put him back, depending on why he flew off. last night he let me pet him for about a minute. but we spooked eachother because he lifted his head up, i flinched and he hit his head on my finger and we both kinda freaked. after that he didnt want to be pet. then i tried takin him off the cage with a stick, which he was okay with doing, but as soon as i set him down whenever i tried to pet him he just wanted to go on my hand. he seemed really nervous. so its like im not sure what to do. and i didnt take him far from his cage, just acouple feet away. or do you think taking him out of sight of his cage will help? since playstands and perches can be really expensive i wanna build him something simple to perch him on when hes away from his cage, something with a small food and water dish and a toy. i just need to get the materials and time but im working on that. i live in northern minnesota. surrounded by trees im sure i can figure something out lol. oh and today when i was cooking and he was being obnoxious becuase he wanted a treat instead of giving him what he wanted (which we all kinda do, by all i mean me, my dad, and my bf becuase we want him to stop being loud) but yeah today instead i showed him I had a treat, and tried to pet him. at first he let me touch him, then he backed away, but he didnt bite me when i put my hand near him, which is progress so i have him the treat. it seems like at night time, when hes a bit sleepy is when hes alot more willing to let me pet him. during the day he super grumpy. its gonna be a longggggggggg process but its worth it.

 

[MonicaMc]

Hi Ayla. I was just reading through your posts.

First off, you need to change your behavior towards him. He's not mean. He's not a jerk. And he's not an asshole. He's misunderstood and has trust issues. His cage is his only safe haven. If you change how you think of him, and try to think of things from his point of view rather than yours, you may be able to better understand him.

If he was previously abused by a guy, he's probably intimidated by your father and doesn't want to get hurt again, hence "better behaved" - but that does not make it better for him.

Yelling, screaming and trying to shove yourself onto him is not the way to go. Also, it's not a good idea to pet him on his back, as it is often a sign between mates to breed. Keep to the head region only.


Clicker training, aka positive reinforcement (a clicker is not required, but it is helpful), is about trying to make every experience between you and your bird a positive one. It may be easier to start working with him at his cage, or away from his cage. Being that you can't move him, I'd recommend starting at his cage. Work on target training aka 'touch training' to touch an object with his beak.

I can provide you with a bunch of links on clicker training/positive reinforcement and training, but I'll start with four for now.
A ?Bird Attacking? Question « Lara Joseph
Stationing « Lara Joseph

Good Bird Inc Parrot Training Talk: Respecting the Bite
Good Bird Inc Parrot Training Talk: Help! My Parrot Wont Step Up!


I've seen people who could not handle a bird for years, but when they figured out the *right* kind of training and applied it, they formed a new relationship with a bird that they previously couldn't handle! So I believe in you! It will probably take months, and you may only see small changes, but it's a lot to change for what has built up for years! So please, don't give up!

 

[aylaxxrose]

I understand what your saying, and he does have trust issues but as I said in an earlier post sometimes he responds better to my dad, sometimes better to me, which is why im not sure if its a sexist thing. I dont only pet him on his back, its a starter, if he lets me touch his back I take it as an okay to his head, im not gonna go to his head first and get bitten. i just recently bought a clicker and I have been workin on him getting used to the sound and recieving a treat. after I get him used to that I'm going to work on other things like biting and screaming. I'll check out your links you gave me.

 

[MAA65]

Hi Ayla, I also have a very Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde 22 year old BF Amazon. He was hand raised and was super sweet until he reached maturity, somewhere around 8-9 and became what I call a bone crusher. In talking with others and my avian vet, I understand I have an alpha male now and he will never be all sweet & cuddly 100% of the time again. Sexual maturity can change their temperament. I have learned to read Amazon body behavior. If their eyes are pinning, tail flaring and wings out it's not a good time to work with him/her. I love the clicking method suggested by SodaKat. Also, he is being a bird and may not meet your expectations. Continue to work with him, give him unconditional love. And hang in there, amazons can really be wonderful birds and you are awesome for caring about him and wanting to do the best by him.

 

[aylaxxrose]

I have been wondering if thats what it is becuase he does that alot! his eyes will pin like you said and he'll fluff his feathers out and charge me. iv been working really hard with him. it seems everynight now he lets me pet him for about 5-10 min and he lets me know when he doesnt want it anymore. its gonna be a long process. and I got myself a clicker! iv been doing it where you touch a stick or toothpick (I'm using a long skewer) and ill let him touch it and then I click and give him a treat. he never tries to break or attack the stick, he'll like taste it or touch it.