New Alexandrines- a dream and a nightmare

[AliceTheFox]

So I picked up a pair of Alexandrines on Wednesday, and as soon as I saw them I knew that I had to take them home. Messy feathers, bad beaks, etc. Put them in an enormous cage with lots of toys, but a couple of things have become obvious to me over the last few days.
1) the seller said that these birds were 'very bonded', but I don't see them hanging out at all. They don't show aggression, but they are pretty much always on opposite sides of the cage
2) Neither of them will even touch their toys, and although they do preen occasionally I don't see them do much else.
3) the female is quite sweet. She will take food from my hand, doesn't seem to mind having hands near her but won't allow touching and won't stand up onto an object
4)THE MALE. I bought my cage used, which included a mirror. He was glued to the thing for the first day, so I took it out. And he's been a nightmare ever since. He screams when I talk to him. He screams when I walk by. He screams for little reason at all. I feel like he might be half ring-neck because his screams are very shrill. I feel like I don't have enough experience for this difficult of a bird. He has some missing toes as well, and it looks like his eyes are constantly dilated.

I really want to help these parrots, but I feel like I need a crash-course in birds with PTSD. Any advice would be greatly appreciated

 

[reeisconfused]

Hello! Welcome to the forum. Congratulations on your new buddies - birds are great companions!

How long have you had them? If it’s still the first week, give them time to settle in. Birds take time to adjust to their surroundings and even longer to trust and bond with their humans.

Have you got them checked at a CAV (certified avian vet)? You said that they had messy feathers, bad beaks etc meaning that they may be sick. Also, you said the male is missing toes? Please get them checked ASAP and Please avoid a normal vet as most are just as clueless as owners when it comes to birds.

What are you feeding them? Diet should be mostly fresh fruit / veggies with a proportion of seeds and pellets. I don’t live in the US, but I’ve read everywhere that Harrison Pellets are the best.

Do you know how old they are and their backstory / history? It help you understand your birds better!

Take it slow with your birds. Some birds click instantly with owners and others take an insane amount of time to trust and adjust. But once you break through, you’ll have an amazing companion for life.

The female taking food is a good sign. The male may not trust you yet because its too early. If birds were not provided with toys initially, they may not understand them now. It may take a while but they’ll get the hang of it. One thing you can do is play with their toys like its the best thing in the world. It DEFINATELY perks their interests lol.
The male may be screaming for attention. I’m not too sure about that so I’ll let others respond!

Read around the threads and you’ll find some amazing information. ��

 

[GaleriaGila]

I'll build on ree's input a bit.

Here goes!


Here's some reading on bonding for you.
http://www.parrotforums.com/general-parrot-information/49144-tips-bonding-building-trust.html
General Parrot Information - Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community
http://goodbirdinc.blogspot.com/2012...n-parrots.html


Most of us swear by our avian vets in the event of health concerns. I don't know where you are, but here are some links. I only have USA info...
Certified Avian Vets
https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/
If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
In my opinion, any of the vets listed here should be better than a regular vet.

What's the diet? That's critical for health. Too many are kept on seeds or other poor-nutrition things. They need veggies, legumes, grains... pellets are a good staple. Here's what I use.
Harrison's Bird Foods
I feed Harrison's, supplemented by fresh healthy treats. My first, and later, my current avian vet recommended it. My bird loves the pellets now, but to get him converted, my avian vet suggested putting pellets out all day, and putting seeds (his old diet) out for two 15-minute periods a day. That would sustain him but leave him hungry enough to try new stuff. I presume the same technique could be used to get him to eat other healthy stuff, like fruits and vegetables! My guy was eating pellets in a couple of days, and now I can feed a good variety of other stuff, knowing he has the pellets as a basic. Pellets are out all day... fresh treats a few times a day. I also like Harrison's via mail because I never have to worry about out-of-date products.

Since you're new parront, I'll just drop a note about avoiding teflon pans, which are lethal to birds if even slightly overheated.

I'm glad you're here. Lots to learn and share and enjoy!



And, if you asked me for just a few words on addressing PTSD...
Time.
Quiet, safe environment.
Time.
Love.
Time.

I think you did a wonderful thing. I'll look forward to following your story!

 

[EllenD]

Great info given above, and very important questions above asked by Ree, so if you can answer them as best you can, it may shed some light on what might be going on...Age, prior ownership and just their history in-general, what their regular, daily diet is, etc.

I'm assuming that they are not young birds if you can visually sex them, correct? Has the female ever laid any eggs that you know of?

***The most important thing by-far that you need to keep in-mind right now is that you've not even had these two birds for even a week! (it's going to be a week tomorrow, correct?)....I mean, these two could be the most tame, loving, sweet birds in the world and they'd not be settled-in at this point, so you can't really form any impressions or opinions of them yet...You have to realize that these guys have the intelligence of a 3-4 year-old human child, and only 6 days ago they were put into a totally new home, with a new person, a new cage, new toys, new everything. They are still shell-shocked at this point, and depending on what type of history/ownership history they've had to this point, it may take them quite a while to settle-in and start to take "ownership" of their "territory"..Right now they aren't even feeling safe or secure inside of their cage, because it's a new cage.

As far as their bond with each other, their prior owner may very well have been telling you the truth, they may very well be extremely closely bonded with each other, and simply because everything is brand new right now and they are both so shaken-up right now that they are just keeping to themselves right now...The fact that they are a male/female pair and do no fight/attack each other, aren't abusive to each other, etc., just the fact that they've apparently lived together in the same cage for a length of time pretty much proves that they have at least some type of bond/relationship with each other, and I'm going to guess that you're going to see this bond between them become more and more apparent as the days go on...

***As far as them not playing with any toys, this is usually due to one of two things: Either #1, they aren't playing with the toys because they are new toys inside of a new cage, and they've only been inside the cage with the new toys for 6 days, and they aren't yet doing ANYTHING simply because they are feeling very insecure and out of sorts right now, and will start playing with their toys once they start to take ownership of their new "territory", OR #2, these guys were not ever given any toys by their breeder (they weren't put into a "weaning cage/starter cage" by their breeder with any toys before going to their first house), or they weren't ever given any toys by any of the owners that they've had since leaving their breeder, and they literally don't know how to play with toys, and don't know what they are or what they're for. Believe it or not this is extremely common, and we get this question quite often, even with brand new babies who are very young and who were just brought into their new home by their new owner from heir breeder's house, and they are put into an awesome, huge, decked-out cage with tons of toys and foraging activities, and the bird just sits there, and often are even scared to death of the toys. In this situation, you have to literally show them how to play with their toys, otherwise they aren't ever going to know how to entertain themselves. In your situation you obviously aren't to the point where you can directly interact with them yet (although if the female is eating from your hand then you may be able to start with her), but after they settle-in and you start the taming/training processes, and you get them to the point where they are spending much of their time outside of their cages and you are able to "play" with them, you'll need to literally "show them" how to play with their toys...They typically catch-on to this fairly quickly...Or, if it's just a matter of them being scared and not yet settled-in to your home and comfortable with you, then they may just suddenly start playing and entertaining themselves...AND if you can get the female playing with the toys, there's a great chance that the male will see her playing with them and he'll start on his own, that's very common, as they do mimic each other...

***Make sure that you have many different types of toys, some wooden ones for chewing on, some cardboard or thick paper ones for shredding, some foraging toys/activities that will make them look for treats and dig through things to find them and keep their brains stimulated, toys to hang from/swing on, etc.

****Have you found the closest Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist Vet to you yet? We highly recommend that you stick to only those two types of Veterinarians and that you stay away from "Exotic's Vet" who treat every species of animal, from birds to rodents to reptiles to amphibians to marsupials to primates...These types of Vets, at least in the United States, have absolutely no extra education or training in any specific species, they are simply General Vets (dog and cat vets) who are "willing to see" all types of animals, that's it...Birds/Parrots have extremely specialized anatomy and physiology, and are not similar at all to any other species, and they are also extremely sensitive to EVERYTHING; stress itself can literally kill a bird at the Vet, and they also have very unique Respiratory and Gastrointestinal Systems that are unlike any other living creatures. As such, you absolutely must find only a Certified Avian Vet or an Avian Specialist Vet who only treats birds. If you have to drive a few hours one-way to get to the closest Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist Vet, then that's what you have to do, as it's completely worth it, it's priceless, and is very, very often the difference between your birds living and your birds dying, as we have seen many, many times here on the forum, unfortunately.

***If you need help finding the closest CAV or Avian Specialist to you, we can certainly help you with that...And if you haven't yet made an appointment for their first "Wellness Exam", which you always need to do within the first month of bringing home ANY new bird into your home, whether they are little babies who were just-weaned or re-homed adults; you also need to take them for the same "Wellness Exams" at least once every single year (once every 6-months is best with birds)...If you aren't already aware,
all birds possess an innate, natural survival instinct to hide all outward signs and symptoms of illness and pain, even physical symptoms, for as long as they possibly can; this protects them and their entire flock from being targeted as "easy prey" by their predators. Unfortunately for bird owners, this means that by the time that we as people notice outward signs/symptoms that our birds are sick or in pain, they have typically already been sick for weeks if not months, and usually by the time they are displaying outward symptoms that something is wrong, they don't have much time left at all...It's a problem, and it's the reason that you must always have a relationship with an Avian Vet, as well as know where your nearest 24/7, 365 Exotic Animal Hospital is...

The fact of the matter is that even if the bird's prior owner told you their history, you really don't know if they've had any prior health/medical issues, or are suffering from any active Bacterial, Fungal, or Viral Infections, which can absolutely effect their behavior and personalities...This is why getting them both to an Avian Specialist Vet for a complete Wellness Exam that MUST INCLUDE at the very least a Fecal Culture,
as this is the only way to diagnose any active Bacterial or Fungal Infections, as well as GI Parasites, and in adult birds who are old enough/weigh enough, they should also have routine blood-work done once a year, especially at their first Wellness-Exam, as this is going to tell you if they are suffering from any Infection, Anemia, any Nutritional Deficiencies, and any Liver or Kidney problems, which are extremely common in parrots and can effect their outward behavior drastically. And then next year when you take them back for their second Wellness-Exams, you'll have Baseline Blood-Work levels to compare to...This is extremely important to get done ASAP...

***Also, their regular, daily diet is also extremely important, and can be effecting their outward behavior and personalities too, as Fatty Liver Disease is very, very common in pet Parrots, due to inadequate diets, as is Kidney Disease, Diabetes, and all kinds of Nutrition Deficiencies and Conditions...So you need to assess the daily diet that they have been on per their prior owner, and start making any necessary changes/additions immediately, but gradually...

 

[noodles123]

Have you had birds? Not trying to be snarky, but this isn't abnormal...they are really bad at transitions and they are scared of lots of things in general(especially when they aren't bonded to the human introducing them). A pair also tends to bond together (as opposed to reaching out to the human). You will have to have EXTREME patience and teach them everything. Anything new needs to sit in their surroundings (within viewing distance, for days before entering their space) and even then, anticipate fear. Spend time talking to them quietly or even just sitting near the cage doing things nicely (while ignoring them)..offer special (but safe) treats.. You also cannot keep them caged until they are ready to step-up or you will have bigger problems, so plan on letting them come and go freely when you don't have time constraints. Pro-trick: They know their cage is their "nest" so if you really get sick of them being out and need them to go in, try shutting all of the blinds and turning off the lights, while saying "time for bed". You cannot randomly do this mid-day though or it will ruin trust....
Also, I am assuming you know that all standard cleaners are TERRIBLE for them...as well as the fact that Teflon/pfoa/ptfe can kill very quickly and is hidden in most things that heat up (including clear-coats on microwave meals, toaster coils, bake-in-a-bag meals, space-heaters, humidifiers, curlers, blow-driers, curling irons, etc etc)..Last 3(ish) things..birds cannot handle scented things like other animals(mammals)--no perfume, air freshener, candles (scented or non), carpet cleaners, essential oil, burning food, smoke, aerosols etc) and birds need a set bedtime/wake-up routine to regulate mood and immune health---this means (on average, 10-14 hours of QUIET, dark sleep). I cover mine at night, but Google "night frights" before you make that call. Last comment: Make sure they are not only eating seed and avoid sunflower seeds totally. A mix of seeds and high-quality pellets is best, and water dishes must be cleaned and emptied at LEAST daily.

 

[noodles123]

Also, you might consider putting them in separate cages or you are going to be dealing with hormonal craziness and possible egg-binding...Also, bird hide illness VERY well, so you need to constantly be a detective....These are not like dogs and cats (not even remotely...)