Nesting Blue and gold

[MikeDavis]

My 15 yr old BG has recently decided to nest. She has a pet carrier cage I put her in when I have to leave the truck. She comes out to eat and use the bathroom but can’t be away for any longer. She’s having a REAL tough episode and is pushing an egg through. Except there’s no egg. So I rock a rock and put it in there as a surrogate. And she’s taking to it like a mother should. I’m wondering if this is potentially harmful to her psychologically or is it the best thing right now

 

[EllenD]

Mike, I don't mean to scare you, but if she is actually trying to physically "push an egg out" but no egg is being laid, she is very likely Egg-Bound, which is an extremely emergent and fatal condition if you don't get her to a Certified Avian Vet immediately...Egg-Binding is not only fatal, but it's an extremely painful way for them to die...

I'm guessing you're a truck-driver, and you don't have access to a shower...normally if you were at home, I would tell you to immediately get her into the bathroom, shut the door, and turn the shower on full-hot to fill the bathroom with steam, then take a Q-Tip and swab some Olive Oil all around the very opening of her vent, and let her sit right in the steam...Also, while sitting in the steam, you should soak a hand-towel in very warm water and allow her to lay on it with her vent area/abdomen laying on it while she is sitting in the steam, this will help to relax her muscles and hopefully allow the egg to pass...But if you cannot do this, you absolutely must get her to a Certified Avian Vet ASAP, as again, this is a 100% fatal condition if the egg does not pass soon...

IF you tell us where you are we can help you find the nearest CAV, as this is an extreme emergency and you don't want an Exotics Vet or General Vet, it must be an Avian Vet...They will take an x-ray to confirm that she's egg-bound, and then will decide how to treat her from there, usually surgery to remove the egg...

If she is egg-bound and you don't get her help ASAP, either the egg will rupture inside of her causing a septic-infection, or she will die from the blockage....and again, this is horribly painful. I don't mean to frighten you, but I'm trying to impress-upon you how serious this may be...I bred parrots for 20 years, and this again is not something you can "wait and see" about, as without intervention she will surely die...

 

[EllenD]

Just a couple of questions in the meantime, in addition to where you are so we can find you the closest Avian Vet to you...How long has she been trying to lay this egg? And are her droppings larger or messier than normal? (This is a sign that there definitely is an egg in her shell gland/uterus)...

What happens here is that another egg starts forming very soon-after the first egg is passing through, and if the first egg doesn't pass out of her, the next egg then cannot pass, and this creates a horribly painful and emergent situation...So depending on how-long she has been trying to push the egg out, well this determines how much time you have to get he help...

 

[MikeDavis]

This has been going on for two months. I’ve kept a close eye on her droppings. She isn’t eating much (which is normal for her when she goes into season) but her vet is Dr. Kirsting near St Louis. I’m already getting in touch with him today. I keppxhecking her abdomen for swelling and signs of any problems. But I’m making sure and getting her in thanks

 

[EllenD]

Well I don't know if you're home and able to get her in right away, but if not, you will probably want to get her to the closest Avian vet to you ASAP, as it sounds either like classic Egg-Binding, or even more probably since you said this has been months is an already rupture egg inside of her shell-gland/uterus, as when the eggs rupture inside of them then you've got a whole other set of signs/symptoms/issues that take longer to appear, sometimes quite a while, as it then presents like an illness/infection...

Signs of excessive lethargy/sleeping, not eating much or at all, being fluffed-up a lot, having them picking around their vent or belly, etc. are signs of an infection...Something isn't right, and having lost a breeder to Egg-Binding once myself (even though I treated her immediately at home on the first signs and then took her to the 24/7 animal hospital where my CAV is on-staff, and she still died the next day) i don't want your baby to go through that, nor you, as it's so horribly painful for them. And it's horrible to have to watch as well...

Just an FYI to you, if she goes into breeding-season often and has a history of laying infertile eggs, please do be sure to get her a bunch of extra Calcium in her diet every single day, whether she's in-season or not at the time...The most-common cause of Egg-Binding/Ruptured Eggs is them not getting enough Calcium to properly form the shells...I don't know what her regular, daily diet is, but she needs to be on a fortified pellet staple, with a healthy, fortified, varied seed-mix without sunflower seeds in it as a supplement to the pellets, then lots and lots of fresh veggies every single day, with fruit as well...And getting her either a large Mineral-Block/Treat to have at all times to chew-on/eat will help to provide her some extra Calcium (keeps their beaks busy too), along with either cooking her some eggs with the shells ground-up and mixed-in every day, or just simply buying a bag of commercial Egg-Food to add to her pellets/seeds (any Petco sells Egg-Food in bags) is a really good way to get the calcium that she needs so that this won't continue to happen...

I hope your vet is a Certified Avian Vet with much experience in breeding/laying females...A plain-film x-ray and some blood work is a really good idea to see what is going on and to get her baseline levels...Keep a close eye on her until you get her to an Avian Vet, any whining/crying, heavy breathing/panting, sudden picking at her belly/vent, vomiting, etc. is an emergency...and check back here if you have any other questions...

 

[ChristaNL]

Apart from the potential horror of being eg-bound yes/no..
(Ellen I am SO sorry for you and your bird)

A friend of mine has a handicapped 'too (or the amazone / they are both handcapped birds and have been together like forever, so sometimes I get their stories mixed up) who -every year- adopts a toy (could be anything) as an egg, sits on it patiently (and *very* defensively), makes motherly sounds etc. for a couple of weeks and is then horrified it did not hatch a live chick ... then she (or even he?) is totally upset and miserable for a few days ...and moves on like nothing has happened.
This has been going on for so lang nobody is surprised anymore.

So.. not sure if giving your bird an egg-substitude is a bad thing.
I would *not* do that to an actual egg laying bird though!
If the bird does not decide it's done brooding, she'll keep going and possibly kill herself that way and if you remove it you run the risk of her trying to lay more eges to fill the nest again.
(The one thing breeders count on, but you dont want your pet to do.)'


When my grey was being broody and laying eggs- I made sure not to take them away (they can count and if one is missing they will produce another) but I did empty them and filled them with gypsum/plaster/whosname.
When the normal 'incubation' time had passed I removed them in the order she had laid them.
(I was *so*relieved that she accepted that and stopped! )
I was lucky she let me lift her from her eggs etc. without protest, she fiercely attacked another parrot when it became nosy and to close.

Can you weigh your bird regularly/ daily?
Just before they lay an egg their weight spikes - so I always know she is up to something...

 

[MikeDavis]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I did call the vet and the receptionist said that it was a normal thing and that if it was egg bound syndrome she would have been gone by now. She just needs tone kept in a dark quiet place until she gets over it. It’s actually a symptom of unmet needs. Of which I draw the line at helping her. And Dr. Kersting is at the top of the list for bird bets in the country. She also said to not let her watch bird porn and she’ll get over it faster. Thanks every one


http://www.birdmedicineandsurgery.com/ourdoctors.php

 

[ChristaNL]

Weird advice. (Just me again, not "the words of birdwisdom" speaking )


Usually if birds get broody and you don't want them, you do *not* give them an excuse: so no nice, cosy, dark places to set up house in.
Sober their feed (not to the point of serious weightloss or starvation of course) and make sure they are in the dark for 12 hours (or more).
This all will tell the bird "now is NOT a good time or place to go into reproduction-mode".


The greys here were definitely going that direction- so no more playing with carboardboxes!
I could not do much about the food, because they keep burgling the macaw cage and stealing her food any change they get (and she really needs some good stuf in her system).
Appie really wanted to go into egg-laying-land, well tough luck this year love!
It does not stop them from looking for any place that might be suitable of course.
That is okay- it keeps them busy.


I hope your BG will feel better soon.
Did they do a calcium-bloodlevel-check btw?
It is kind of vital.

(I missed it/ oh wait ... you talked to a receptionist - but did you get a vetexam as well?)

 

[Kiwibird]

Macaws are not typically known for becoming chronic egg layers, but I'd still want her examined in person by the vet if she were my bird as any female parrot can produce a infertile egg, even if they're older and never have before. It can be a once in a lifetime event and I'd rather be safe than sorry myself if I had a female bird showing signs she may be trying to pass an egg.

 

[MonicaMc]

Reminds me of one female macaw that actually did produce several *tiny* eggs and she never laid them.... although she was not egg bound, she did end up having surgery to remove her eggs and make it so she would never produce eggs again.


You say that you draw the line at helping your macaw go through her unmet needs and yet you provided a rock as a surrogate egg. Is that where you are drawing the line at? By providing a cozy place for her to nest in and a "foster egg"?



Just wondering.

 

[Owlet]

Reminds me of one female macaw that actually did produce several *tiny* eggs and she never laid them.... although she was not egg bound, she did end up having surgery to remove her eggs and make it so she would never produce eggs again.


You say that you draw the line at helping your macaw go through her unmet needs and yet you provided a rock as a surrogate egg. Is that where you are drawing the line at? By providing a cozy place for her to nest in and a "foster egg"?



Just wondering.

it sounds more like he's referring to hormonal needs such as masturbation which I don't think anyone wants to do that with their bird. Could be wrong though and I would like to hear what OP says. Can't say i know much about female bird masturbation or if it even differs from male, but could this just be a misunderstanding? Simple hormonal masturbation being thought to be egg laying attempts?

 

[EllenD]

I think that the actual situation/behavior going-on with this Macaw hasn't been accurately discussed, no one's fault, but I was under the impression right from the get-go that this bird was actually physically straining to lay an egg...To the best of my knowledge she hasn't actually laid any eggs since this behavior started 2 months ago, correct?

There is a distinct difference between a bird being "broody", and a bird actually being in distress...And I have to tell you that I'm seriously disturbed by a receptionist at your vet's office telling you over the phone that she's fine and just has to get over this episode of "broodiness" after you've clearly stated that she is physically straining...

As Monica stated, being "Egg-Bound" isn't always as clear as "Oh I didn't get her help within 24 hours so she's dead", and there are many, many, many difference medical conditions involving FOLLICLES that can cause your Macaw's behavior...The only way to determine whether or not she has any type of undeveloped or underdeveloped eggs or simply Follicles causing this behavior is with an X-ray, usually Follicles will show up on a plain-film x-ray as well as actual, shelled-eggs will...Why any CAV or their receptionist would feel comfortable telling you that "she's fine" over the phone without even an exam or an x-ray is beyond me, but I would be immediately either insisting that your vet see her ASAP for a full exam and at least a regular x-ray, or finding another Certified Avian Vet that will be willing and would recommend doing=so, as listening to the advice of a receptionist in this situation is dangerous...and possibly extending your bird's discomfort...

If I were you, I would do your own research on large parrots and ovarian follicles causing multiple issues in egg-laying/hormonal issues...I'm not saying this is an emergency at this point, however, it absolutely might be. Besides a physical risk to your bird's health, her possibly having Follicles causing this, or even reabsorbing follicles that she already had formed, or having underdeveloped eggs inside of her causing this, etc., these are most importantly conditions that can not only be emergent/eventually fatal, but they also cause the bird to feel horrible and often be driven to several destructive psychological behaviors, such as eventually plucking...So I would encourage you to become a lot more concerned about your bird's behavior than that receptionist irresponsibly made you be...with parrots you cannot ever be too safe, especially with a hormonal female exhibiting the behaviors that your bird has been recently...