Neglected animals. Need help

[Kitty]

EMERGENCY! I really need help however it's not concerning parrots. Really sorry, but I don't know who or where else to ask...I just need advice from a genuine animal lover. Please read and help me decide what to do with these neglected chickens:

I received a phone call from an old friend yesterday saying his cat had dragged some chicks into his house through a cat flap! I don't live far from my friend and I wasn't busy so I walked down the road to his house.

When I got to my friends house I saw the two chicks his cat had dragged in. Both chicks look approx a week old. They were very cold, wet and had puncture wounds on them from where the cat had picked them up. My friend has handling them poorly, he was shaking them around in his hand and their heads were dangling. They were being kept in a cardboard box in the cold garage with a bowl of water and a some crumbled up weetabix. (According to my friend he'd kept the chicks in this box for 3-4 hours before calling me)

I was sure my friend had done his best to help them but I told him the chicks needed a heat lamp, a drinker and chick crumbs to live. I go to take the chicks out of the box and run them over to my house where I have all three of these things (I've hand raised chickens, ducks, quail and pheasants before) but my friend stopped me from taking them and said "I found them. I want to keep them. You're not having them!" I suddenly feel like a child in a playground playing finders keepers!!! I've been a vegetarian for 18 years and I was extremely concerned about the two limp, almost lifeless chicks. My only concern was their welfare. I told my friend the two chicks would die without my help. After a while of talking about it, my friend agreed to borrow my equipment rather than hand the chicks over. I was fine with this, even though it would've been much more convenient and less time consuming for him to take the chicks to my house so they could be helped right away.

My friend went to put his shoes on to help me carry all the equipment from my house to his. As we stood by his front door he said to me "I just need to pop to tescos to buy a new mobile phone before we get the equipment from your house". At this point I feel like screaming! My friend either didn't seem to understand or care at all about these chicks dieing.

Luckily my friend's Mom pulled onto the front drive in her car. She'd come to visit. She asked us both what was going on. After seeing the chicks she immediately asked me to take them to my house and help them. Thank God for Moms! If she hadn't showed up the chicks would be dead by now.

The chicks are now safe and sound under a nice, warm heat lamp with a clean dish of chick crumb and a drinker of fresh water. I've cleaned up their wounds and surprisingly there doesn't seem to be any serious damage. One of the chicks wouldn't eat drink, stand up or even open its eyes, It was totally limp but its now walking around, eating and drinking on its own.

The only problem is, I don't know what to do with the chicks...My friend has started to call and hassle me because he wants the chicks back. I'm extremely concerned because my friend has a terrible history with animals. A few years ago my friend had a pet rabbit that he no longer wanted. Rather than giving the rabbit to one of our mutual friends who really wanted a rabbit, he tried to kill it by locking it in a shed with no food or water, I know this happened because he showed me the rabbit and told me about what he was trying to do (thankfully the rabbit didn't die and it was re homed.) My friend has also killed a hamster by swinging it around and has had a malnourished, neglected lizard taken off him. My friend has been banned from our local pet store and has kept several other pets including hamsters, another lizard, fish and a tortoise...all of which he got bored of and got rid of in a very short space of time. The second lizard he kept (the one that wasn't taken off him) was kept in a very dirty enclosure, it smelt absolutely awful...It was filled with dead, rotting meal worms, lettuce and lizard waste. The lizard escaped and ran away.

What should I do? I can't possibly give him the chicks back, I'll never forgive myself. I really don't want anymore chickens, but I would defiantly keep them if I had his permission because I know I'd give them a good home. Should I lie and tell my friend the chicks died and then give them to someone who will look after them? Do you think I can talk my friend out of wanting them by showing him they're not so cute when they grow up and they take a lot of time and care? He doesn't even have a chicken coop, should I show him how much they cost?

I know all of that was a lot to read and it probably sounds really childish, like I'm arguing over something most people eat on a daily basis, but I'm so worried about what to do. I just want what's best for the chicks. I will really appreciate any advice I'm given.

 

[sonja]

Why are you friends with this person? He sounds horrible. Keep the chickens, or find them a home elsewhere, but don't give them to this guy. If he gets mad, oh well.

 

[mtdoramike]

I would keep the chicks and find a new friend

 

[IcyWolf]

I agree with mike, keep the chicks and ditch this so called friend. I was also thinking, what kind of an area does he live in? I know around here you can't keep farm animals in most residential areas, only in places zoned for farming. Maybe you could tell him its not legal for him to have them where he lives. Make up something about the chicken feces infecting the ground water or something lol. I really doubt he'll do the necessary research to prove you otherwise. Or I would take him out and show him all the things he needs to buy to properly care for them as adults, tell him he can have them as long as he buys all the necessary equipment, including a coop, once he sees how expensive it is he probably won't want them anyway. No matter what, don't give them back to him, they are in your possesion now so he really can't do much about it. Worst case, tell him you found their real owner and gave them back. If he did all of those horrible things to animals regularly kept as pets I can only imagine what he would inevitably do to these chickens ku

And thank you so much for saving them and for your 18 years of being veggie, I've been vegan for about 12 years myself kudos to you

 

[BarkleyLoves]

Thank you for rescuing the chicks. Please do not give them back to him, he sounds like a terrible pet/animal owner. I'm not above a white lie, I'd tell him they all died because they didn't receive immediate care.

 

[greycloud]

I would tell him the chicks died and get them to someone else to care for. They need vet care. Cat saliva is toxic and these chicks will develop pasteurella.

 

[Kitty]

Thank you to everyone who replied, I know this isn't the most normal thing to be asking advice about!

You're all right...My 'friend' doesn't deserve these chicks and they really don't deserve him! I got in touch with him yesterday to tell him I'd taken the chicks to the vets and that their injuries were pretty bad. My friend didn't seem bothered by this at all, He replied with "Well, when you get them back I'm going to have them back off you". Silly boy

The vet has checked the chicks and has said they're fine Phew! They are now safe and sound under a heat lamp in my house.

I decided it's best to lie to my friend. I've told him the vets kept the chicks overnight and they will give me a call to let me know when they're better...In a day or two I plan to tell my friend the chicks died at the vets due to developing pasteurella from cat saliva (like greycloud mentioned.)

I'm quite worried encase I've accidently influenced my friend to want pets...I'm a real animal lover and often foster unwanted birds, so as you can imagine I often have plenty of animals around! I currently have a little dog and fancy chickens amongst various other birds outside in my aviary. All of my birds are like part of the family and are totally spoiled. They each have names and are all very tame and friendly. I spend lots of time with them and often bring them inside the house. To my friend, who doesn't see all the hard work I put into keeping my birds clean, happy and healthy must think caring for birds is easier than it looks. The amount of times my friend has said "I want one" after seeing my pekin rooster strut into the house through the back door, or after seeing my golden pheasant display his beautiful feathers is unbelievable! I really hope after I lie about the chicks dying he doesn't go elsewhere to purchase more. Perhaps I should hide my pets away if he ever comes over again...After all, my dog does growl at him and several of my birds hiss at him! (The birds and my dog have never done this to anyone else.)

I'm quite concerned about my friend having a weird bend on the control issue of life and death with animals. It just isn't right. I can't understand why someone would rather kill an unwanted pet rabbit than give it away to a friend who would love and care for it. Not only does it seem the "pleasure is in wanting" with him, but he seems to also have the attitude "if I can't have it, no on can"...He treats animals like objects, he buys them, gets bored of them and ignores them but simply hates the thought of anyone else getting any enjoyment from them. Not for one second does he consider what would be best for the animal. Like I said before, this guy has been banned from our local pet store...I'd like to see him banned from keeping animals altogether because I'm concerned he has some serious issues.

Finally I'd like to say this 'friend' isn't exactly a friend. He's an old mutual friend from school I rarely see anymore as we have nothing in common. I'm very grateful he called me regarding the chicks otherwise they'd be dead now, however I don't wish to maintain a friendship with him because I'd be pretty embarrassed to call him a friend... I only called him a 'friend' on here to save time explaining all that

 

[Kitty]

I agree with mike, keep the chicks and ditch this so called friend. I was also thinking, what kind of an area does he live in? I know around here you can't keep farm animals in most residential areas, only in places zoned for farming. Maybe you could tell him its not legal for him to have them where he lives. Make up something about the chicken feces infecting the ground water or something lol. I really doubt he'll do the necessary research to prove you otherwise. Or I would take him out and show him all the things he needs to buy to properly care for them as adults, tell him he can have them as long as he buys all the necessary equipment, including a coop, once he sees how expensive it is he probably won't want them anyway. No matter what, don't give them back to him, they are in your possesion now so he really can't do much about it. Worst case, tell him you found their real owner and gave them back. If he did all of those horrible things to animals regularly kept as pets I can only imagine what he would inevitably do to these chickens ku

And thank you so much for saving them and for your 18 years of being veggie, I've been vegan for about 12 years myself kudos to you

Thank you IcyWolf,

I'm currently trying to find the origional owners of the chicks as I imagine my 'friends' cat has stolen them from where they belong. The origional owner of the chickens obviously isn't doing enough to protect them from predators

Wow, vegan for 12 years?! Well done! I've actually been a vegan for about 6 months now...I'm still in the habbit of calling myself a veggie though! I really plan to stick to my vegan diet, I feel so healthy and it means my birds can eat almost all of my leftovers! haha!

 

[kc_y0]

I agree about lying to the friend about the chicks, DON'T let him have them. I would also really re-consider who you are friends with. I know its hard to get rid of friends sometimes, but this one doesn't sound like the type of person you want around.. Good luck with the chicks, I hope you can find a good home for them and thank god you were able to get them from that guy.

 

[luvmytooo]

I don't know why you keep going on about this so called friend.
Your worried about your animals at home n case he comes over ?!
If he does show up at your house , IMO , you should kick his *** to the curb !

 

[Kitty]

I agree about lying to the friend about the chicks, DON'T let him have them. I would also really re-consider who you are friends with. I know its hard to get rid of friends sometimes, but this one doesn't sound like the type of person you want around.. Good luck with the chicks, I hope you can find a good home for them and thank god you were able to get them from that guy.

Thanks Kc_yO and Luvmytooo.

This guy is just an old mutual friend I knew in school. I rarely see him because we have nothing in common...I'm an animal loving vegan and he's a pet destroying monster! I'm very grateful he called me regarding the chicks otherwise they'd be dead now, however I don't wish to have any sort of friendship with him because I'd be very embarrassed to call him an actual friend!

He seems like a nice, normal, friendly guy, but the way he treats animals is terrible...I don't think he sees animals as being living things with feelings

I only called him a friend on my post because if I called him a stranger or a random neighbour everyone would ask how he managed to get my phone number...Calling him a friend also seemed easier than explaining "a friend of a friend who was a couple of years below me in school, who now lives down my road and works in the local pub who also I bump into every so often"

I guess I should've said "someone I know" rather than "friend"...Sorry everyone!

 

[brianlinkles]

Not to "beat a dead horse" so to speak (hope that translates) but just something to think about. This "friend" has some serious issues and I would be careful in letting him anywhere around you or your family. My husband used to be a prosecutor and I always remember him commenting on the fact that people that abuse animals to the extent that you have mentioned often escalate to harming people. When someone kills animals it is truly a warning sign of horrible things being done to people. I would cut all ties to this person and stay far, far away!

 

[Alisana]

I personally would've reported him for those acts of animal cruelty in the past. ><

Be wary of him, as brianlinkles said, animal abuse can develop into malicious and dangerous intent.

Well done on rescuing those chicks!

 

[Kitty]

Not to "beat a dead horse" so to speak (hope that translates) but just something to think about. This "friend" has some serious issues and I would be careful in letting him anywhere around you or your family. My husband used to be a prosecutor and I always remember him commenting on the fact that people that abuse animals to the extent that you have mentioned often escalate to harming people. When someone kills animals it is truly a warning sign of horrible things being done to people. I would cut all ties to this person and stay far, far away!

You're right, Brianlinkles.

It isn't right and I stopped talking to him a long time ago after the rabbit incident...I remember myself and a few of my friends plotting to break into his shed while he was out to save the poor thing...Thankfully one of his family members managed to sort the situation before it came to that.

I don't plan to let him in my house ever again

Seeing as your husband used to be a prosecutor, you wouldn't know how/who I can approach about having this guy banned from keeping animals do you?

Like I said before, I've known this guy for many years. He lives right around the corner from me, he works in a local pub and he knows most the friends I've stayed in touch with from school...It's not a case of me being friends with him, but seeing as our paths cross so often I'd like to keep a civil atmosphere...I'm sure most of you are wondering why I'd want to keep a civil atmosphere with such a monster...The truth is, I don't want to fight with him because nothing will be gained from it, I don't want an enemy I just want him to stop being cruel to pets.

I'm so glad he called me about the chicks but I'm certain the only reason he got in touch with me is because I'm the only person he knows who's raised chicks and because he didn't want them to die for selfish reasons. If I was on very bad terms with this guy then he wouldn't have called me and the chicks would be dead. If I keep things civil at least I can try my best to save as many animals from him as possible.

He's like a spoilt child who breaks his toys or scuffs his shoes in order to get given new ones...It's likely that his Mom won't allow him to have more than one pet at a time. When he's bored of a pet, he tries to get rid of the old one in order to justify having a new one. He won't give his unwanted pets to loving homes because he can't bare to see someone else happy with his old pet. I think he's searching for the perfect pet: He'll see someone with a well looked after pet that has been tamed and trained to perfection...He loves the idea of having that perfect little pet, so he goes out and buys a similar one...He doesn't tame, train, love, care or spend anytime with the pet he just purchased and then wonders why the animal isn't the perfect pet he dreamed of. Then the cycle starts over again.

Ps: This guy isn't a child, he's 23.

 

[luvmytooo]

You guys are right. My hubs is a retired PO and this guy is on that road.
Its a good idea to keep a civil relationship with him because you don't want the trouble.
and you never know what he will do next. But I would file a report so they have a record and if they already have one on him , all the better , but do add your encounter with him.
Im sorry you have to deal with this kind of person. It stemmed from childhood no doubt , so something went wrong with his upbringing.

 

[brianlinkles]

I don't think my husband would have any idea what is needed to deal with any laws in the UK. I agree with luvmytooo, keep it civil, I would be fearful of what this guy is capable of. It sounds like he may have some real issues. It is great that you have the chicks now just stay the heck away from him.

 

[dishgal1]

I would tell him the chicks died and get them to someone else to care for. They need vet care. Cat saliva is toxic and these chicks will develop pasteurella.

I agree totally. Find them a home and tell him they died. Ditch the friend.

 

[Mook]

I notice that you live in the UK. Under UK law he is not the owner. Finders keepers is not a legal principle it is theft by finding which is a crime. You could tell him that you have located the actual owner through mutual friends or something and given the chicks back. He would have absolutely no claim against you or the actual owner because he is trying to steal them. Please don't give the poor little things to him. (also please don't interpret this as professional legal advice - that is not how it is intended)

 

[Mook]

I just noticed that you also asked about getting him banned from keeping pets again. My understanding of this is that it is very difficult but I am by no means an expert. I would recommend you contact the RSPCA for advice on this.
My understanding of it is that a ban could only be decided by a judge in a criminal trial. I don't think there is enough to bring a case against him from this situation because he can convincingly argue that he was doing everything he could for the chicks - he rescued them from the cat, gave them food and water and called you for advice. Also you would need to have the police and the RSPCA involved before he could be charged (which is necessary for a trial). I suspect that the RSPCA would need to witness quite extreme cruelty before they would contact the police about pressing charges. Again this isn't legal advice and I think your best chance at success would be to have a chat with the RSPCA.

 

[Kitty]

GOOD NEWS!

I got in touch with him today and lied about both chicks dying at the vets due to developing paseturella. He believed me

I really hope no one lets the truth slip out.

Both chicks are fine and have been checked over by a vet. They are both eating, drinking and their wounds are healing nicely

I plan to sex the chicks tomorrow. What happens to the chicks depends on their gender...Roosters are difficult to re home due to their noise and only being able to keep one Rooster to several hens. Generally, people only keep a Rooster if they plan to breed their chickens. I already have a Rooster (see my profile picture:smile015 so I can't keep another.

If both chicks are hens I will consider introducing them to my existing flock, if my flock don't accept them or I decide against keeping them I will be able to find two hens a good home easily (especially seeing as the chicks are a good egg laying species!)

I hope for their sake they're both female :smile046: If it is suitable for me to keep them, they will have a fantastic home for life.

Mook thanks for the advice. I was a little worried encase he legally had the right to take the chicks from me...But thankfully he believes my lie and he's given up harassing me.
I wouldn't try and get him in trouble for this incident because I do believe he tried his best to save the chicks (even if it was for selfish reasons!) However, if believe he is neglecting any animal in the future I fully intend to get him in as much trouble as I possibly can.