Need quite a bit of help

[Ahicks]

Hey all, joined the forum a month or so ago and have read a few posts here and there during the time I've been on, I made an introduction thread as prompted so if you want a introduction to me and my avian companion just follow this link:
http://www.parrotforums.com/new-members-welcome/56520-hello-there.html

Or to summarise briefly, I'm the son in a family household and we have a pet eclectus named Dell. We've had him for over ten years but he doesn't really talk and isn't comfortable with us touching him, but certainly likes to hang around us, on the shoulder or arm typically.
Anyway, strangely enough only a few days or so after I made the introduction thread, I was alone with Dell for a week whilst the rest of the family went on a holiday (I prefer having the place to myself).

He started to become VERY clingy, almost never leaving my side be it hanging around my chair on the floor or climbing around all over my body whilst sitting down. At this time, he had a nasty habit he had recently adopted of regurgitating on random objects around the house (He still does this unfortunately).
He's also been actively trying to regurgitate on me, and if I tell him no and take him off my arm/shoulder whatever he's upon, he'll hang around my chair and eventually regurgitate on it when I'm not paying attention.

I thought it was just because I was the only person around at the time, but it's been a few weeks since the rest of my family got back and he's still just as fixated on me.
After doing a bit of research, it seems like he's decided I'm his mate - now if this was just him being very friendly and hanging out with me a lot I'd be fine with it, but it's just the regurgitation that's the deal breaker.

I know it's a sign they do to show affection, mates do it in the wild but let's be honest none of us want our parrot to regurgitate on them. I've made it abundantly clear to him I don't enjoy this, I always make him get down if he does regurgitate on me but he still does it.
Is there really nothing I can do to stop an eclectus regurgitating, is it just too ingrained in their nature?

That's not all I made this thread for, though. Despite this very annoying habit I'm really growing a bond with Dell, and I've even spoken to my parents about taking him with me when I move out.
Now I'll be honest, we didn't do our research when we got him, but he seems happy and in good health, and he's not bad tempered at all - the only time he's ever bitten someone remotely hard was when he got his head stuck in a chair (Perhaps not the brightest bird of the bunch) and they got him out.

So basically can any experienced eclectus owners or just generally knowledgeable people just ask me questions I suppose? I can give you the answers of what I/we currently do for Dell, such as what we feed him and then I can get feedback on if that's acceptable or what I can do to improve it.

Thanks in advance for any help, I appreciate it.

 

[littleT]

what do you feed him---how often? any vitimans?does it get full sun at all?---theres a start!!!

 

[Ahicks]

When we first got him we used to cook up a mix of various ingredients called "softfood". I'm not entirely sure what was it as I wasn't the one who prepared it, but this food was something we had looked up and stated it was a good food for an eclectus.

In addition to this, we gave him various fruits such as avocados, kiwi, apple, grapes etc. However we took him to a vet for a checkup after a couple of years after we first got him and they told us to change his diet to a dry seed mix, containing various seeds, banana, peppers - all dried, and peanuts as well as a special dry food "Harrison's Birds Foods: Adult Lifetime Coarse".

He's never gone through a bowl of either throughout the day, we also change his water daily (with bottled spring water) or if he's dirtied it badly somehow - such as trying to wash up in it.

As for sun, he never gets the chance to go outside, but his cage is beside a large window. It's not entirely relevant honestly since he spends all of his time out of the cage, wandering around the house.

 

[camo]

Hi Ahicks,

You said you have changed his diet, but I just wanted to point out that although there is some speculation, Avocado appears on the toxic list for parrots. The fear being it may cause cardiac arrest. Are Eclectus parrots susceptible, well perhaps Dell is not, or the parts of Avocado you have given him or the specific ripeness has meant he has not had a fatal dose.

Just thought I should mention this to avoid accidental poisoning

Cheers,

Cameron

 

[obeck]

Sounds like that vet you took him to didn't have a lot of eclectus experience. I haven't used it but I've seen a few people on here have problems with ekkies and Harrison's. Also sounds like he's hormonal which would also be a diet thing. Try cutting down the seeds add vegetables with his pellets. See if that helps with his behavior.

 

[Ahicks]

Had a mini heart attack when you mentioned avocados being toxic, until I realized I was a moron and we actually fed him pomegranate, not avocado. No idea how I got those confused, sorry - although I still wasn't aware of that fact about avocado so will keep that in mind for the future.

I have heard about the difficulties with finding vets who have enough experience with a certain kind of bird to know these kinds of things. I'll make sure he gets some veggies in his bowl from now on, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Ahicks]

Bit of an update, just got some carrots and cucumber for him to try out in his bowl.
He didn't seem very impressed, might have to try some other veggies in the future.

 

[JerseyWendy]

LOL, I think you may have given several of us mini heart attacks when you said you feed him avocados.

Here are some great links for you:
http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...afe-fresh-foods-toxic-food-lists-sprouts.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...7-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/57416-sprouting-made-easy.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/49445-pellets-diet.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/52737-so-you-think-you-want-eclectus.html

 

[ChrisWink]

fruitandveg

This is what I consider the Eclectus bible. Please please give him mostly veggies from this list! As far as pellets give this Pretty Bird Eclectus.

I learned the hard way with my Tobi

 

[Ahicks]

After the veggie advice, I did a quick google search to try and find some veg we had in the house right now I could try him on and "fruitandveg" was one of the results.
The only vegetables on that list we have in the house right now are carrots and cucumber, also broccoli but I'd rather not fill his bowl up too much as he has a tendency for throwing half of it on the floor when I do.

So..you think you want an Eclectus. was actually the thread I read that got me to make this post to try and make sure Dell was getting everything he needed. Like I said just now, he didn't seem too interested in the carrot/cucumber I put out so I tried mixing some seed in with it - I saw him eating out of it a bit later but I'm pretty sure he was just picking out the seed, the rascal.

Regardless, from what I've read so far it might be best if we get Dell to the vet for a check up and some advice on how to proceed with changing his diet and stuff - then again that didn't go so well the last time it seems, with the Harrison's Bird Food recommendation and all.
http://eclectusparrots.net/fruitandveg.html

 

[Birdman666]

In terms of the regurging behaivors.

This is a natural behavior, that essentially means "I love you." It DOES NOT necessarily mean mating. Birds regurg for their flock mates as well as their mates within the flock. (Especially flock birds... and eckies, cags, and toos are all flock birds, not pair bond birds.)

What I've taught mine to do is to eat what they bring up themselves. They still bring it up, but they bring up less, and eat it themselves.

You can train them out of a lot of behaviors, but natural behaviors you can really only reduce or modify.

 

[Anansi]

If you check into those links Wendy provided, as well as the Fruit and Veg link that Chris posted (he's right, it really is the Eclectus Bible when it comes to diet), you'll have a plethora of new food ideas for your ekkie.

Pellets and vitamin supplements are a bit of a controversial subject when it comes to ekkies. I won't go so far as to say that they're all bad, as some ekkie parronts seem to have had success with varying forms of supplementation.

What I will say is that ekkies are far more prone to issues that are complications of over-supplementation... such as toe-tapping and wing-flipping. A number of ekkies have exhibited an intolerance for the vitamin enriched pellets or vitamin supplements provided for them.

So, while there are pellets and supplements out there that seem to work for some ekkies, I choose not to take the chance. In the past, I've fed maybe 5-10 Harrison's Adult Coarse pellets to each of my ekkies a day. Never more. And currently, I don't feed pellets at all. I figure that, if I can provide a diet free of supplements that gives them everything they need, why not? Again, that's just me. And my ekkies get an extremely varied diet. Variety is key.

As for your ekkie refusing your first few offerings of veggies, you just have to be persistent. They'll refuse some things repeatedly before actually trying them. Persistence is also key... as is trickery. Neither Jolly nor Maya is particularly fond of carrots, but the Vitamin A they contain is vital and necessary. So I grate the carrots to slivers and mix it with all the other foods.

Yeah, good luck separating out all of that!

Variety. Persistence. Trickery. The keys to a great diet. Lol!

 

[Ahicks]

I'm well aware of an eclectus' habit of regurgitation and what it means, though it's annoying to hear it's not exactly something that can be trained out of them although funnily enough he does eat it back up sometimes. I guess he figures if I'm not eating it, he won't let it go to waste.

I went out for my evening shift earlier, and when I got back his bowl was nearly empty - and while there's numerous carrot chunks strewn across the floor of his cage, I'm pretty sure some of it's unaccounted for as well as most of the cucumber so maybe he wasn't hungry when I first offered it to him (Although picking up a carrot chunk and tossing it across the room seemed like a pretty clear statement on what he thought of it).

Honestly it surprises me I have to actively try to get him to eat fruit and veg, seems an awful lot more appealing than all that dry food he's used to. Anyway, I'm not certain where I can get some of the "super foods" on that list, though broccoli's easy enough to find so I'll see if he takes to that tomorrow.

Thanks for the all the help so far people, appreciate it.

 

[camo]

Ahicks,

So glad you had not been giving him Avocado. Some great advice comming thick and fast, so lots of reading ahead.

I think the best thing to do with food is keep trying. I feed my pair chop and started off really fine, this made them eat a bit of everything, now my chop is a bit more coarse, but Pebbles has her days of chucking out what she doesn't like. Interestingly she doesn't like the carrot, but if I put a carrot on top of her cage, when she sees Gizmo hanging upside down tearing his carrot appart, she has to do the same. So apparently small pieces of carrot is bad, one large full carrot is a fun food (does a lot end up on the floor of the cage...yes, but that's part of the fun)

Cheers,

Cameron

 

[Ahicks]

I read somewhere they tend to chuck food out in the hopes there's something better underneath, he'll toss out the surface food of a bowl filled with the same food throughout which he's been having over a few years now. The rascal.

I have been a little unsure of how fine to cut the veg up, at the moment I'm going with chunks, so for carrot slices then cut in half, and cucumber in cubes almost, a little smaller than the carrot.
This morning's the morning I tried broccoli, cutting it into similar sized chunks to the carrots - Dell swiftly threw the broccoli aside but tucked it into the cucumber, so that's good at least. Might also help I mix some dried seed mix in with it to entice him a little more.

Also I just saw that peanuts are on the no list? There have always been the odd peanut in the dry seed mix we get him, still in the shell and it's one of Dell's favourites, part of the fun for him is tearing the shell apart.
I'm aware they're not very healthy which is why we only use peanuts as a treat for him, but seeing that list worries me. Is it really an absolute "no" food?

 

[Taw5106]

When Venus won't eat, I'll put food in a cup or bowl and have her sit with me. A spoon must be in it too, she loves spoons, will pull it out and eat the food off of it while holding it. Earlier this week I did this with broccoli, red pepper and cucumber. She's not big on broccoli, that was my goal to get her to eat. I also chop food in tiny pieces or grate, like carrot. Carrot gets grated all the time to get her to eat it. And she regurgs, she's hormonal right now so she's been regurging more. I put her back in her cage when she starts regurging a lot, let time pass and will get her out again.

 

[Ahicks]

Spoon wielding parrots? Interesting..

Seems carrot isn't a big favourite of any eclectus, next time I'll try and mash a load of veg together so he can't really pick/discard any particular items.

I'll try putting him back in his cage if he regurgitates, see if that has any effect. I'm pretty sure he knows he shouldn't regurgitate, since whenever I catch him he quickly makes a get away to his cage.
But perhaps if there's an actual punishment aside from a scolding, it might have an effect so I'll see how it goes.

 

[Anansi]

With peanuts it isn't the food itself that is the problem, though it is a rather fatty food, but rather a peanut's inherent susceptibility to a type of mold called aspergillus that can lead to aspergillosis in parrots. Aspergillus also produces aflatoxin which, in high enough concentrations, can cause liver damage.

So while it's entirely possible that you could wind up lucky enough to never feed a peanut compromised by such fungal contamination, I figure why take the chance?

As for punishing your bird for regurging, if you mean anything other than putting him back on his stand when he gets a little too carried away, I wouldn't recommend it. It's a natural, instinctive behavior as well as a show of affection, so punishing the act might not yield the results for which you are hoping.

 

[Ahicks]

I see, that's unfortunate since as I said he finds breaking the monkey nut shell apart quite entertaining. I'll see if I can find some other nuts he'll enjoy, almonds perhaps as recommended on that site.

As for the punishment, I was referring to putting him back in his cage. I'm not going to bat him across the room or anything, don't worry.

 

[camo]

I have been a little unsure of how fine to cut the veg up, at the moment I'm going with chunks, so for carrot slices then cut in half, and cucumber in cubes almost, a little smaller than the carrot.
This morning's the morning I tried broccoli, cutting it into similar sized chunks to the carrots - Dell swiftly threw the broccoli aside

This is a post I did on my last chop mix

http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/57128-chop-mix-some-questions.html

This is not to suggest I am in any way an expert, but to show what I mean by a coarse cut (as I had lots of pictures). I used to be really fine, when Pebbles was being super picky. The idea is the good stuff sticks to their favourite stuff, so basically they have to try the good stuff.

With the regurgitation, Gizmo was doing a bit, but he never got too bad, if I was quick enough to see him start I could sometimes distract him out of going through with it (have a toy handy etc). I agree that you need to be careful how you tackle discouraging this behaviour, it could easily result in a negative reinforcement and create even worse behaviour if handled too extremely.

Cheers,

Cameron