Need advice on my 2 lovebirds

[PF_Guest28045]

Hi all,

I have two lovebirds one male and one female. They are about 5-6 years old now.
I have a few questions about them.

Firstly the female love bird from what i can tell seems to pick at the male quiet alot. I took them to the bird vet a few years back and there wasnt any signs of disease etc and put it down to him and the female picking at his feathers. It has kept up and its concerning me cause he looks pretty bad, he is missing the feathers on the top side of his face around the eye and on his upper chest area has a big patch totally missing. I feel sorry for him. If it is the female bird thats picking at him, how would i go about stopping this? they do cuddle up and seem to like each other but every so often i see them have a little tiff and it usually looks like the female is annoying him or biting to hard im not sure exactly. The female is deffinitley the more dominate one and she isnt missing a feather. I am probaly going to take them to the vet again anyway.

The second question i have is it to late to hand train them?
When I bought these guys they were supposed to be hand reared and paired together, but ever since i have had them they have been really scared of our hands. when i first had them they were clipped and i let them run around and stacked pillows so they could climb back in there cage. Sometimes i would have to get them back in quickly and they would run around carrying on. I tired a method which i am not sure was a good idea, it was to catch the bird and put it in a towel or something and hold it gentley and talk to it but that didnt seem to do much and i think they are more scared from it. I have tried talking to them alot being near there cage which is at the door of my room.
Now a days they arnt clipped as i like the idea of letting them have the ability to fly. They seem to be interested in me sometimes when i let them out they sit above where i am sitting at my computer and chirp down at me and ruffle their feathers. the male was just out before and i was pretty close to him standding there just talking to him and he was pretty calm but if you move he freaks out. Thats pretty much the backstory i am just wondering is there anything else i can try to get these 2 to be some what tamed, eg not be scared of me and let them hop on my hand. Or have they bonded and dont need me?

Sorry for the long post i just wanted to give us much info as possible and i feel like a crappy bird owner. Any help or suggestions would be great!

 

[Anansi]

Hello Ryan08, and welcome to Parrot Forums!

In all likelihood, one of two things is happening here. The most likely scenario, given the lack of feathers around the face, is that your female is indeed plucking your male. Another possibility is that the male is plucking himself. There have been reported incidents of birds plucking their own facial feathers with their feet, after all.

Either way, however, the solution is the same. Your lovebirds need to be separated. Since they have something of a bond, however dysfunctional, separate cages in the same room would be best. The situation as it stands is simply too stressful for your male.

I do think that it's a good idea for you to bring them in to the vet, though. It's always good to rule out medical causes no matter how likely something else may seem.

As for the possibility of hand taming, I do believe it possible. It will likely take some time, though, so you'll have to be very patient. Separating the two will help with this. First step is to gain their individual trust. Bribery is a great way to start. Offer treats through the bars of their cages. Then advance to opening up the cage (one at a time) and enticing them to come out with treats held just out of reach. Depending on how fearful they are of hands, this could take weeks or even months. Don't rush the process.

Eventually, you'll want to entice them (again, one at a time) onto your hand with a treat held just out of reach so that they'll have to step onto your hand in order to get to it. Work with their comfort level. Once they will comfortably step up for you, train each one in a separate room using training perches. At this point, (or even earlier, actually, as you can do this right after the initial bribery stage) you can introduce target training. You might want to use a pointer, especially if they are still exhibiting some fear of hands. Whenever they move toward the point of the stick, reward with lots of praise and a treat.

Eventually, target training can be expanded to include recall training. This is particularly rewarding with a flighted bird. And from there, the possibilities are endless.

The technique that you attempted is known as "flooding". Basically, you wrapped them in towels, restricting their movement with the intent of having them basically give up and become resigned to the situation... even as they come to accept that you are not going to hurt them. It's an old school tactic that some still use. Personally, I'm not a fan. Some birds are successfully hand tamed that way, but it seems to me to be a process of breaking rather than trust-building.

Don't look at yourself as a crappy bird owner, btw. You're asking questions in the hopes of furthering your relationship with them. I don't think it's ever too late for that.

Anyhow, here are a few links you might find helpful.

Stepping up: http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57538-not-stepping-up-doesn-t-understand-stepping-up.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/training/48810-need-help-step-up-training.html#post435993

A helpful target training video by one of our members, Katie: http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/49381-target-training-getting-over-fear-video.html

And here is a link to a wonderful thread chronicling the journey of another of our members, Mary (Birdigirl), in the taming of her parrot. You might find the evolution of their relationship rather inspiring: http://www.parrotforums.com/amazons/59572-new-white-fronted-amazon-owner.html

And a very informative thread by our own Allee that contains quite a bit about plucking: http://www.parrotforums.com/behavioral/52217-plucking-search-answers.html

If you have further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[PF_Guest28045]

Thank you Anansi for your detailed response, it is really appreciated.

I have thought in the past about separating the two birds for training and to possibly protect the male, but as they have been together quiet awhile now i was worried that this would stress them both out. Would this be a factor.
Also will this be a permanent thing?

If i was to separate them i do have a spare cage that they used originally when i got them, but its much smaller then the current cage. If i was to separate them which one should i move from the main cage?

I will definitely be taking them to the Vet again just in case anyway.
This is going to sound terrible but as they are very skitty i haven't sprayed them for bugs. I haven't done this as it warns not to get it in their eyes but that is impossible as i cant hold them. I guess i will ask the Vet if i need to give them any supplements or anything. They are currently being fed Vetafarm pellets and a little seed mix.

I will go over all the links that you have shared and see if i can get any tips to help me tame them.

 

[MonicaMc]

One. Separate them into different cages. The cages can be next to each other, just at least an inch apart. You can always allow them out together as long as the female behaves herself.

Two. Have millet on hand whenever they are out and about! If they love millet, and you have millet, they can learn to associate you with good things and come to enjoy your company because of it. You don't need to train them separately, in fact, training might go faster if one watches what the other one is doing.

Three. I doubt most people spray their birds for bugs.... seriously, not a requirement, unless they are living outside or bugs are an actual issue where you live. Most indoor birds and many outdoor birds are just fine without any treatments!






Reiterating #2.....


5 adult, flighted budgies. (2 from breeder, 3 were rehomes) Not hand tame prior to working with them once a day (in the morning).


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUx81WHTUwk"]1 Bird in hand Leads to Many - YouTube[/ame]


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlSm4uFZzVU"]More Budgies!!!! - YouTube[/ame]



Previously handraised cockatiel (rehome - 1 previous owner, then ignored in favor of girls and sports. Lived with brother and parents. Guess who she was watching?????

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q88bN30qOjo"]Sunshine in the Morning - YouTube[/ame]


Insert new cockatiel. Rehome, 3 previous owners. She was paying a very close eye to Sunshine! Was not tame/friendly, but I think she may have been hand raised?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9w9w8nMRmw"]Hesitant Faye - YouTube[/ame]


Again, once a day behavior.... although at one point in time, she got to the point that she demanded this, even though food was already out for her to enjoy without eating from me. (see in previous video?) Note a change in her behavior.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH9ZWxhCSAE"]Not So Hesitant Faye - YouTube[/ame]



And last video.... another rehomed cockatiel that was nearly starved to death in previous "home" (they found her... novelty thing that quickly wore off after she wasn't what they thought she should be like... bad home all around!), and Pistachio (semi-bald headed male - used to be *extremely* skittish, now is one of the first birds to do this behavior with me! also Sunshine's father). Ignore Casey, the tiel climbing up my arm!


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjKmHswgiHs"]Cockatiel Feeding - April 24th - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Arash]

I'm not expert but in my opinion their water is infected because I had the same problem my male lovebird lost some of his facial feathers!
1.do you add any vitamin to their water tube?
2.do you change their water every day? or does their water tube clean?
my male and female love bird have a very big cage and they mate every day and they love each other but one day I noticed that male love bird lost some of his facial feathers the only possible reason was in their water tube I added vitamin (AD3E) in their water tube and it was 2 days that I forgot to change the water that coused the problem.