need advice on antibiotics

[im_nick]

hello, I hate that this is my first post in this forum but I really need some advice :-( I have a cockatiel who is having some watery droppings. they have a normal color and urates otherwise. there's the occasional weirdly goopy one and the occasional completely normal one. sometimes he goes a few hours with only normal ones. he had them in the start of March but cleared up with antibiotics but then they came back in late May, then seemed to go away by themselves but then got worse again recently.

the vet I go to is not a certified avian vet, and I know this is really not good but I have no options as the only avian vets we have are on the other end of the country and the closest one I've read about that works with birds is about 2 hours away I've found information about a vet that's about an hour away now, but I continue to have no reliable way of transport. I also can't even bring sunny to the vet Ive been consulting with since the one time I tried she rejected me as it would apparently be a danger to her birds. I did check the avian vet list on this forum but my country isn't even listed there.

now, the vet said that since the issue is back so soon it's an infection that won't fully go away, so she gave me some of the antibiotics again (she doesn't even tell me what they are) and told me to give them to him 3 times a month. for context they're ones you dilude in water but sunny doesn't seem to mind and drinks them anyway.

I feel like 3 times a month is way too little and won't do anything. yesterday was his first day of it which seemed to help but today we're back to having the occasional strange looking droppings. I want to give it to him like other times, for about 10 days consecutively, but I don't know if thats a good idea. I will be calling the vet soon to ask her too, but I'm not sure how reliable she actually is at this point.

I know there's a lot here that's done completely wrong but I really don't have many better options so any and all advice or critique is helpful. thank you in advance

 

[SailBoat]

Sadly, when dealing with non-avian Vets that do provide services, this can happen. Since there seems to be periods when the poop is good and times when it is not, there could be an issue with your parrots diet effecting the poop. Variations in wet diets can result in a watery poop.

Look at moving the dry part of the diet to human grade or equal.

Target changing the water more frequently and cleaning the water bowl more often.

I believe that providing a general antibiotic by water is of little value as there is no way to assure how much the parrot is getting at any time.

Try those items provided above.

Since Covid, many Vets do provide Video calls.

 

[im_nick]

Sadly, when dealing with non-avian Vets that do provide services, this can happen. Since there seems to be periods when the poop is good and times when it is not, there could be an issue with your parrots diet effecting the poop. Variations in wet diets can result in a watery poop.

Look at moving the dry part of the diet to human grade or equal.

Target changing the water more frequently and cleaning the water bowl more often.

I believe that providing a general antibiotic by water is of little value as there is no way to assure how much the parrot is getting at any time.

Try those items provided above.

Since Covid, many Vets do provide Video calls.

thank you so much for the response!!! sunny's diet is actually a mix of seeds and pellets since I haven't had success getting him to eat fresh foods, but I'll definitely try looking into improving his diet, as well as trying to clean things maybe a couple times a day as opposed to just once daily. also, I've unfortunately had to use antibiotics like this in the past but they've always worked for him so I assumed putting him on the same normal course like prior times would work, but you're right that it can't be too reliable on how much he actually gets... is it possible to put the antibiotic on a treat so I can be sure he's getting enough, or would it be risky?
ive also never thought about trying a video call but I'll have to look into it now. thanks a ton again for your advice !!!

 

[im_nick]

bump. I'd still like to know if anyone thinks it would be better to do the normal 10 day course of antibiotics? I feel like 3 times a month would only build an antibiotic resistance and make it worse

 

[LaManuka]

bump. I'd still like to know if anyone thinks it would be better to do the normal 10 day course of antibiotics? I feel like 3 times a month would only build an antibiotic resistance and make it worse

Without knowing exactly what type of infection your 'tiel has, if indeed he does have one, it's difficult to say whether a 10 day course of treatment would be sufficient to kill off whichever bacteria it is that might be causing the trouble. Having said that though, 3 times a month doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, and even 10 days in a row would be ineffective against a persistent bacteria like the one that causes psittacosis. It may even be an issue with an imbalance of gut flora, in which case you could try adding apple cider vinegar to his water. It *has* to be a brand that contains the "mother culture" to be most effective, like Braggs brand if you can get it, and you add it at a ratio of 5 millilitres to 500 millilitres of water for 3 days. Of course I cannot say for certain if such a treatment will help in your case and it definitely will not kill off an infection, but I have used it on one of my 'tiels who had a bit of polyuria and it has worked for him.

 

[im_nick]

Without knowing exactly what type of infection your 'tiel has, if indeed he does have one, it's difficult to say whether a 10 day course of treatment would be sufficient to kill off whichever bacteria it is that might be causing the trouble. Having said that though, 3 times a month doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, and even 10 days in a row would be ineffective against a persistent bacteria like the one that causes psittacosis. It may even be an issue with an imbalance of gut flora, in which case you could try adding apple cider vinegar to his water. It *has* to be a brand that contains the "mother culture" to be most effective, like Braggs brand if you can get it, and you add it at a ratio of 5 millilitres to 500 millilitres of water for 3 days. Of course I cannot say for certain if such a treatment will help in your case and it definitely will not kill off an infection, but I have used it on one of my 'tiels who had a bit of polyuria and it has worked for him.

you're definitely right that not knowing the exact problem is making this more difficult, that's why I'm seeking advice from more experienced people. I'm at least hoping that since this has been going on for a while without any symptoms other than polyuria it shouldn't be something as scary as psittacosis;; thank you for confirming my suspicion that 3 times a month doesn't make sense though....
i have actually been giving sunny the occasional bit of acv (I have a brand that I've been told should contain the mother culture) but I haven't done 3 consecutive days before and I believe I mightve done a bit less than your dosage as I was scared not to give him too much- so I'll definitely try your approach
in the worst case scenario where that doesn't work, would trying the antibiotics still be worth it? maybe for more than 10 days? yesterday he had some and today he had some again which seemed to have made an improvement since he had very few concerning droppings especially today, so maybe continuing it after the acv would help?
either way thanks a ton for the advice!!! I really appreciate it

 

[LaManuka]

you're definitely right that not knowing the exact problem is making this more difficult, that's why I'm seeking advice from more experienced people. I'm at least hoping that since this has been going on for a while without any symptoms other than polyuria it shouldn't be something as scary as psittacosis;; thank you for confirming my suspicion that 3 times a month doesn't make sense though....
i have actually been giving sunny the occasional bit of acv (I have a brand that I've been told should contain the mother culture) but I haven't done 3 consecutive days before and I believe I mightve done a bit less than your dosage as I was scared not to give him too much- so I'll definitely try your approach
in the worst case scenario where that doesn't work, would trying the antibiotics still be worth it? maybe for more than 10 days? yesterday he had some and today he had some again which seemed to have made an improvement since he had very few concerning droppings especially today, so maybe continuing it after the acv would help?
either way thanks a ton for the advice!!! I really appreciate it

Again, without knowing the type of bacteria I can't say for sure if 10 days is sufficient, or if it would just knock the symptoms down for a bit until the infection reappears. The only bacteria I'm familiar with is chlamydia psittaci which causes psittacosis, which my princess parrot Peachie had last year. The "gold standard" treatment is a course of six injections of doxycycline, one injection per week for six consecutive weeks, in order to kill off the bacteria at every stage of it's life cycle, adding it to Peachie's water would not have worked. Even then it's not a guaranteed cure because this very persistent bacteria can continue to lurk in the liver or other tissues, according to my (most excellent) avian vet's advice. Sadly psittacosis is quite common among companion parrots, it's believed that one in eight here in Australia carry it though I am not sure what the ratios are for other countries. Some parrots live with it their whole lives and it causes no issue, but it can get very nasty with others so hopefully your 'tiel doesn't have it. And I certainly do hope some other members will be able to weigh in with their experience too

 

[im_nick]

Again, without knowing the type of bacteria I can't say for sure if 10 days is sufficient, or if it would just knock the symptoms down for a bit until the infection reappears. The only bacteria I'm familiar with is chlamydia psittaci which causes psittacosis, which my princess parrot Peachie had last year. The "gold standard" treatment is a course of six injections of doxycycline, one injection per week for six consecutive weeks, in order to kill off the bacteria at every stage of it's life cycle, adding it to Peachie's water would not have worked. Even then it's not a guaranteed cure because this very persistent bacteria can continue to lurk in the liver or other tissues, according to my (most excellent) avian vet's advice. Sadly psittacosis is quite common among companion parrots, it's believed that one in eight here in Australia carry it though I am not sure what the ratios are for other countries. Some parrots live with it their whole lives and it causes no issue, but it can get very nasty with others so hopefully your 'tiel doesn't have it. And I certainly do hope some other members will be able to weigh in with their experience too

honestly I'm not even sure it's completely certain that it's a bacteria problem since I can't have any tests done... I've tried doing some research on psittacosis and it really does sound super scary, but thankfully he doesn't have any other symptoms. even then I continue to hope it's not that since I can't know for certain.. I'm not sure where he would get it since we don't have contact with other birds, but I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough on the matter to be sure. also I hope your Peachie is doing much better now!!!

if it's anything, Sunny's been as active and playful as ever and since the issue came back recently he hasn't actually had a full day of weird poop. it also seems to be worse when he holds it in which he tends to do in his cage, so I've been letting him out much earlier and for longer amounts of time during which it seems mostly fine... hopefully that's a good sign? I also started giving him the acv water today as per your advice. thank you once again for the help!!!

 

[SailBoat]

Great advice provided.

My background is with Amazons and our guy tends to be very healthy. It has been several years since I provided him an antibiotic. But had never had an Avian Vet suggest adding it to water. Commonly, a measured amount, directly in the mouth or as part of a treat.

Psittacosis, if I recall correctly is common in soil and not wearing outdoor shoes inside and changing clothing and washing hands prior to interaction with Parrots after working with soil provides a good safeguard for not infecting one's parrot.

 

[LaManuka]

honestly I'm not even sure it's completely certain that it's a bacteria problem since I can't have any tests done... I've tried doing some research on psittacosis and it really does sound super scary, but thankfully he doesn't have any other symptoms. even then I continue to hope it's not that since I can't know for certain.. I'm not sure where he would get it since we don't have contact with other birds, but I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough on the matter to be sure. also I hope your Peachie is doing much better now!!!

if it's anything, Sunny's been as active and playful as ever and since the issue came back recently he hasn't actually had a full day of weird poop. it also seems to be worse when he holds it in which he tends to do in his cage, so I've been letting him out much earlier and for longer amounts of time during which it seems mostly fine... hopefully that's a good sign? I also started giving him the acv water today as per your advice. thank you once again for the help!!!

Psittacosis is often transmitted from parent to chick in the nest/aviary. Your Sunny may not have it, or a difference bacteria strain, or no such infection at all with any luck! But it can lay dormant in a "carrier" state and not show any symptoms at all, like it did with the green cheek conure I had some years ago, or can be active like it was with Peachie, who exhibited lethargy and signs of respiratory/air sac infection when she kept closing one of her eyes. She is doing SO much better now, thank you for asking , and I hope your Sunny improves with the ACV treatment. Just keep an eye and make sure he does keep drinking, because the ACV will obviously change the taste and smell of his water. It didn't put any of mine off drinking, but individual results may vary so best keep an eye on yours just in case.

 

[im_nick]

Great advice provided.

My background is with Amazons and our guy tends to be very healthy. It has been several years since I provided him an antibiotic. But had never had an Avian Vet suggest adding it to water. Commonly, a measured amount, directly in the mouth or as part of a treat.

Psittacosis, if I recall correctly is common in soil and not wearing outdoor shoes inside and changing clothing and washing hands prior to interaction with Parrots after working with soil provides a good safeguard for not infecting one's parrot.

the measured amount directly in the mouth honestly does sound a lot more reliable, so I can see why your vets would never suggest it!
it seems I haven't done nearly enough reading on psittacosis, I actually was not aware of that. I do normally try to be cautious with washing my hands and changing clothes and I don't wear shoes inside but I'll be even more careful from now on. thank you for the information!!!

Psittacosis is often transmitted from parent to chick in the nest/aviary. Your Sunny may not have it, or a difference bacteria strain, or no such infection at all with any luck! But it can lay dormant in a "carrier" state and not show any symptoms at all, like it did with the green cheek conure I had some years ago, or can be active like it was with Peachie, who exhibited lethargy and signs of respiratory/air sac infection when she kept closing one of her eyes. She is doing SO much better now, thank you for asking , and I hope your Sunny improves with the ACV treatment. Just keep an eye and make sure he does keep drinking, because the ACV will obviously change the taste and smell of his water. It didn't put any of mine off drinking, but individual results may vary so best keep an eye on yours just in case.

i see, thank you for the insight! Hopefully we're lucky and there's no psittacosis either way, but I'll be keeping this in mind. it's great to hear Peachie is better also, that sounds like a terrifying state to see her in...
i have hope for the acv, thank you for the well wishes. I am doing my best to make sure Sunny is drinking and so far he's drinking great. I think he isn't a fan of the taste but he keeps drinking like normal, only with the occasional dissatisfied head shake haha

 

[im_nick]

i wanna add a little update. sunny has been off the acv for 5 days now, and at first it actually did help and he was doing great, but since Saturday he's been having the occasional odd dropping again and I noticed some of them have one or two tiny bubbles... I wonder if I should continue with acv or talk to a vet again ? he's otherwise normal and active so I'm kind of at a loss at this point :'D