Need a Hail Mary

[SilverSage]

Well I'm at the point of asking for suggestions on the internet. Any suggestions I use will be checked with my avian vet first to be sure they aren't harmful. Here is the back story as brief as I can make it.

On October 20th I took Kono, my Indian Ringneck (hatched this spring) to the vet because she seemed to be losing coordination and had abnormal feathers. I found out she had a minor yeast infection and a MAJOR bacterial infection. The doctor prescribed meds for both. She was a healthy weight at that time.

On her return visit, we found the yeast infection to be gone, and the bacterial infection was greatly reduced but still present. We switched to a new medication. She had lost 5 grams which was not unexpected with the meds.

She had not "perked up" by the time her meds were almost gone but I was leaving the island for my brother's wedding and needed to know if she should board at the vet. I took her back. The bacterial
Infection was gone completely. We did a CBC and tested for PBFD, Avian Polyoma, and Psittacosis; all tests came back clean and her blood work looked good. Respiratory system also looked good. She had lost 2 more grams. We discussed x-rays but the vet said in her state it would be high risk for little chance of getting any new info. By this time I was working with a team of 3 avian vets. They all agreed, take her home, discontinue meds, let her heal.


But she is still not recovering. She had lost an additional 2 grams. I have come up with my own "treatment" that my vet says "can't hurt" and is "the best we can do for now." At this point they don't have anything else to offer, so I'm coming to you all for any ideas you may have.

What I'm doing right now;

-I have replaced her water with an electrolyte solution for half of the day each day.

-she is getting her usual pellet food plus added seeds and along with her usual veggies she is getting high sugar fruits and frozen corn. Honestly anything I can get her to eat I'm feeding her. But even millet and peanuts, usually not part of her diet, don't spark much interest. At the moment the fresh papaya seems to be the only thing she even cares to look at, but she does brows more or less in the morning. I'm careful to keep it fresh.

She is getting as much direct sunlight as I can give her to boost her immune system. She is also kept nice and warm; it's hard to do anything else on a tropical island!

She is getting herbs that are known to boost avian health including cayenne, cinnamon, and oregano. She is also getting bee pollen.

She is getting enough sleep and is in a low stress area, but where I can keep an eye on her.

Usually I'm not one to ask for vet advice from anyone besides a vet, but my team of vets are out of ideas. Any idea that I decide to try I will ask my vet about BEFORE I use it, but I sure could use some advice.

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[plumsmum2005]

Hi very sorry to hear that Kono has not improved. Shame re the x-ray as would probably prove useful to know how her kidneys and liver are? I would poss add a Vit supplement but not with pellets. Try upping her Vit A foods if you can get her to eat some. Are you giving the electrolyte solution because she is runny? Probably wouldn't give it for long periods IMO.

Sending all good wishes to you and Kono.

PS Sure you already know this but on the off chance there may be something that pops out as significant to you? https://www.beautyofbirds.com/indianringneck.html

http://www.birdcareco.com/English/TheBirdCareCompany/ProductInformation/Guardian-Angel

Just on the off chance she hasn't had the opportunity to chew any metal has she?

 

[SilverSage]

The vet said that if something were the matter with kidneys or liver we would have seen it in the blood work.

The electrolyte solution is because of the extreme lack of energy and her tendency toward dehydration. She is only getting it for half of each day, and it has seemed to make a difference as she now is spending some time on perches instead of the floor.

The vets agree that most artificial vitamin supplements are unregulated and are actually a health RISK particularly to a bird already on pellets and fresh.

I read through the links, the first is a general overview of IRNs and all the possible health problems listed have been ruled out, the second is a vitamin supplement and like I said, my vets have advised against these.

As to metal, no, and metal poisoning has been ruled out (went down that road with two of my conures! Scary!).

Thanks so much for taking the time to brain storm with me!!


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[Kentuckienne]

I came across some "miracle" stories about Aloe Detox. I was interested because I saw how sick olivers antibiotics made him, and wondered if it could have helped so I researched it. I believe it's not much more than aloe juice. Everything I found said it was completely non toxic. The original story- someone had parrot with organ failure, she put it 50% solution in the water dish and mixed it into everything, the parrot recovered completely and the vet became a convert. I couldnt find proper research data so of course, it could have been coincidence, or made up sales sharking, or outright lie. But there is such a product and it is possible that something in it might flush out toxins. It's not totally unreasonable that it would work. It's not expensive and if the vet doesn't have any other suggestions.....don't know if it would help, don't think that it would hurt, but it's a Hail Mary chance. Good luck.

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww24eii.htm

 

[SilverSage]

I have heard that too! I hasn't really considered it in this case because those stories usually involve liver issues and her liver seems fine, but I'll ask my vet if it can do any harm! Thanks!


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[Kiwibird]

What a sweet looking baby!

Being a baby with an immature immune system and being on all those meds, she may never have developed a healthy balance of "good bacteria" in her gut and whatever she did have was likely wiped out by the antibiotics. They do say that health starts in the gut and scientists are just beginning to discover how important it is to the immune system and overall well being to have a proper balance of symbiotic gut bacteria. Is she getting any probiotic rich foods? I know she is weaned, but given her state, what about trying her on a little formula containing probiotics off a spoon every day?

Hope she recovers!

 

[SilverSage]

Thanks Kiwibird, actually with the gram stains we were able to see that she has quite an amazing array of good bacteria. The vet was surprised to see the variety and number of healthy bacteria present, even after the antibiotics and advised AGAINST a probiotic as it might upset the balance that had already been achieved. That was one of my first thoughts too.


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[Scott]

That is really a mystery and may be outside the normal boundaries of veterinary medicine.

Does Kono exhibit any of the original signs, such as feathering and coordination issues? Can you research a history of siblings to determine any potential genetic issues? If the infection is now clear, might there be some temporary "overhang" of medicinal effect that depresses appetite, ie. hypersensitivity to the antibiotics?

I have no doubt you have tried most every acceptable food to spur Kono's appetite? Are there any unique methods to deliver food? If Kono was spoon-fed, perhaps creating a nutritious "smoothie" may be a help?

 

[SilverSage]

Thanks Scott, I actually have been in contact with the breeder and she is the one who suggested the herbs. There is no history of this sort of thing in her flock. She is actually a close friend that I have known for years and I did ask her, but I would have known. I also have Kono's full brother and two half siblings.


I have tried hand feeding her, and she won't swallow more than a few drops at a time, such as for meds, and only when restrained so I feel the stress is doing more harm than good.


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[SilleIN]

You have probably tested already, but I was thinking about the phosphorus/calsium balance. If you have formerly only used pellets and have now added seeds, she might need more calsium. I know you probably have sepia shells in her cage, but if she generally doesn't like to eat, that probably might not get the attention it might need. May I ask the phosphorus/calsium ratio in the pellets? Some pellets have a good 1:2,5-3 ratio to account for fruit and veggie in the diet also. If the pellets are only 1:1,5 ratio, you might in general add more calsium in the diet

I have 3 very relatively active macaws and I need quite a high fat contents in their diet. They usually like coconut oil and salt-free peanutbutter. Just to say, that I have never had any experience with ringnecks, so don't know if that is harmful to them, just a way to add more calories with less effort

Mine also love dates (the ones with pits and not the romantic interaction with others, eventhoug I guess they would love that too ) and I feed a lot of nuts aswell to get a higher fat content Hope your baby gets better soon

 

[SilverSage]

Thank you

Her cal/phos levels were checked with the CBC and look perfect.

I will add coconut oil I think! That's a great way to increase calories, and I just called my vet and she said it would be perfectly safe. Peanut butter I will stay away from though as IRNs are quite sensitive to large amounts of protein. She has liked nuts in the past but now that her appetite is less I can't even get her to look at them.


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[EllenD]

A possibility concerning her feathers and loss of coordination combined with the eating and weight issues is always diabetes. I've seen many cases of similar symptoms that were suspected to be PBFD and actually turned out to be the bird being diabetic and needing insulin for the rest of their lives. They need to specifically check blood sugar amongst other things to figure this one out, but with the feathers combined with the weight and eating issues I'd mention it to your vet if it hasn't already been ruled out.

Also, how old is she? I know she's fully weaned, but do you think it's at all possible she regressed a bit because of the illnesses and may need some hand rearing formula? Just another thing I've seen.



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[SilverSage]

I will specifically ask about diabetes! Thank you!

She is about 10 months old, and I have even tried feedings again just to get calories into her but she rejects all attempts at hand feeding.

Thank you EVERYONE! You all have different insight and experience than I do, and each thing ruled out is HELPFUL!!


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[gracebowen]

I was going to suggest coconut oil too. Are there other nut butters that have less protein? Maybe try honey?

 

[SilverSage]

Ok I talked to the vet and he said that while the blood work wouldn't just be a clear sign of diabetes, there would be some key indicators that she doesn't have.


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[plumsmum2005]

Morning, just an odd thing popped into my head reading your thread again.

Allergy? Thinking low level, rather than full blown but enough to subdue her immune system which could be struggling with this invader and as such lets in something else?

What Are Parrots Allergic To? | Petcha

Any credence to this then Piasa, has a fair amount of knowledge in this area?

 

[SilleIN]

I don't know if active charcoal could be an idea. If there are any toxins in her gut, that should be able to pick that up, but if I remember correctly, there's a down side to it aswell. As you are asking the vet everything, I thought to suggest it. The vet will know if it's a good idea to try

Can't stop thinking about your beautiful little bird. I really hope she gets better soon

 

[SilverSage]

I'll ask him! Thanks again everyone!

Usually I hate it when people ask for med advice online, for humans or pets, but I've already been to the vet and in keeping in contact with them, so you don't have to worry that I'll do anything you suggest without checking


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[SilverSage]

I have an update nothing official but Kono pigged out like a true IRN on her veggies this morning!


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[Nicky76]

That's great news [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3][emoji3]


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