My wits end, big macaw trouble, gahhhhhhhhhh

[Kissed82]

I haven't been on in a long time, life has been crazy!

To clip or not......?

Nero is about 2.5 years old, he is a B&G macaw. Lately he has really REALLY been testing my rules. He is fully flighted and has been the whole time with me, which me and my family loves that, he is so much fun flying the house.

He has his own bird perches on opposite sides of the house and if able to fly to each of them and does all day long. When we first got him he would fly to the table, counters, chairs, doors.... Nothing was off limits in his mind. We taught him "return" so he would fly somewhere he shouldn't be, we would tell him to return, if he did he would get a treat, if he didn't he would go to his cage. This worked wonders! This would be done 100% of the time and Nero responded well to it.

As of lately he is back to his old self of acting like there are no rules, and then some. He can't be left alone long enough for me to pee before he is doing something crazy or busting something (including a $1500 camera that cost almost $500 to repair) then to top it off he is dive bombing my conure and picking fights with him. I still follow the same routine 100% of the time.

He has plenty to do, tear apart, play with, chew.. He also gets outside almost daily on his harness or in his outdoor cage. He spends 8-12 hours out of his cage daily. Lots of one on one time with him, his routine is predicable and has always worked before. He does get his afternoon shout in as well...

I'm just at a lost and to top it off I'm (the main caregiver) having major abdominal surgery in 3 weeks.

Would it be worth it to clip his wings to aid in training him and to aid in me in healing from surgery? Today I swear he spent most of the day in his cage. He would come out and within 5 minutes dive bomb my conure then go back to his cage for a few minutes, then come out and it happened all over again.

I have an appointment for my vet to clip him tomorrow afternoon .... I'm just scared doing it will cause more harm than good or change my Nero's personality ...on the other hand he has been very hard headed as macaws are. I'm so torn I want to scream!!!!!

 

[Kissed82]

When I say things like "rules" they are not rules.... Just phrased that way for easy reading I guess.

I know he is a bird, I know there are things he doesn't understand. But I also know he fully understands more than people give them credit for. I just wrote it that way for the lack of better words.

Just thought I would add that bit. Thanks

 

[NightProwess]

Good luck, I hope someone can answer your questions. I'm still learning as I go along with River as far as temperment and moods, but, I work in health care.
And if you're fixing to have abdominal surgery.... you need to be taking it easy. To tear something open on a major surgery like that could prove life threatening if you were chasing Nero around the house all day.

Granted, I dont know how clipping his wings will effect him emotionally... hopefully someone here will be able to help you there.

But for your own personal health risk... Regardless of which decision you choose, you need to take care of yourself also.

Good luck!

 

[MacawLoverOf3]

Your Conure is in danger, with your surgery coming up and him not responding to his training to 'return' he needs that wing adjustment tomorrow. Hopefully things will return to a more relaxed time in your home and eventually they will be moulted out and life will be better.

 

[Kissed82]

I guess I was hoping to read a no, dont there is another way. I think deep down I know I have to but I am crying as I type this.... I love him and his wings... he IS a BIRD and I love that. gah! Tomorrow will be painful for me and rude for him. Not to mention my Jenday, he wont miss the harassment im sure. ~sigh~

As far as my surgery, fingers crossed. I do have teenage and pre teen daughters that Nero responds to well. But Nero is a Macaw and they are kids, nuff said there I suppose. Thank you for the Happy healing thoughts ) I have always loved reading about your River, that is one pretty birdie!

 

[javi]

Sounds like a hormonal issue tied with the terrible twos.

 

[Kissed82]

I haven't heard of hormonal issues at his age. He is a jealous bird, which I have read is the normal for most macaws. I will chat about hormones with his Vet today.

 

[JerseyWendy]

No, this is in NO way hormonal. He is MUCH too young for that. Jealousy? Absolutely a possibility.

As for clipping him, I will say this: It's a HIGHLY controversial topic. IMHO you should do what feels right for YOU. Remember, the wing feathers will grow back. Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to give him a trim, just enough so he can't be flying all over the place, and then you will probably have an easier time training him.

I'll duck now. :54:

 

[Pinkbirdy]

My flock is being IMPOSSIBLE with this change of season [I think It has something to do with that] and that's all of them hormonal or not . About half my birds I got as babies [and the terrible twos are real also]. It sounds like hes gotten a big head from being able to do what he wants . I myself wouldn't clip him . But revamp his out of his cage schedule. Have him out and when hes being impossible put him back in . Don't let him out with your conure. Good Luck

 

[Kiwibird]

There is a "terrible twos" parrots go through, and he is right about that age to test, test his flock's patience with him that is As a very young bird, he probably responded to training because that was literally all he knew. Now he is branching out and see where his limits are. Being he's a bird, it is going to take some work on your part to establish that lifelong set of boundaries, and figure out what he responds to as a individual (positive reinforcement, time outs, distraction techniques ect...)You are doing the *right* thing with being consistent and persistent with his routine (IMO), but it might help to research other training styles that address the specific behaviors (being destructive, not staying where he should ect...) and give them a try. It can't hurt And none of this will happen overnight.

All I will say on clipping it is a PERSONAL decision. Kiwi is clipped, and is a happy, healthy, active bird. He is well behaved now too, but thats due to training, not clipping. He was clipped when we got him, and he was basically a *flightless* feral bird with a bad attitude. Clipping is NOT a behavioral fix-all. It can be a tool to make a bird pay attention a bit better, but it does no good if theres not other tools being applied to correct the behavior along with it. And there is always a risk to it. While some birds respond very well to being clipped and it does wonders to help train them and get them on the right track behaviorally, others become much, much worse due to frustration or depression. It's a craps shoot which one it will be.... Do your due research because you know your bird and have the BEST chance of predicting the behavioral outcome of any clipping, training, techniques whatever.

 

[Anansi]

You were asking if there might be a psychological effect from clipping your bird's wings. As Wendy pointed out, the "To Clip or Not To Clip" topic has been very hotly debated, with passionate opinions on both sides.

Some feel that having a bird clipped from the beginning will severely impact its psyche and potentially lead to psychological/behavioral issues such as plucking, depression, or a loss of confidence. Others feel that clipping a bird's wings from the beginning is a necessity for its safety and that the psychological effects are negligible.

But many from both camps would agree that there will very likely be a psychological effect when clipping the wings of a bird who is already accustomed to flying and for whom flight has already become second nature.

I tend to agree with Pinkbirdy's take. I would continue using a return to the cage as a deterrent rather than clipping. Nero has proven before that he can comprehend the training. It probably just needs some reinforcement at this point. Perhaps you'll have to tweak your approach a bit, but sometimes discouraging a behavior in parrots just takes persistence and consistency. They can be quite headstrong.

That said, if you find that you MUST clip, as Wendy said they will grow back. But make sure it is not too severe a clip, and watch for any potential changes in his demeanor that might result.

And all the best for your surgery!

 

[javi]

Something I have noticed with clipping moody birds is that it may calm them down but if there is no training that takes place to take the edge off is that when the wings grow out again ya may have the same issue. I keep all my birds flighted and dont normally have muh attitude even though they are all mature. If you must clip work on some behaviors that will help should he get too "out of control". There is also that argument that clipping is a form of negative reinforcement so if you are working on positive reinforcement training, this may cause a hinderance. Good luck

 

[MikeyTN]

Clipping doesn't not hinder anything! I have clipped Willie at one point and it didn't bother him one bit doing it. Willie have been with me for 10 years. What your lacking in training is boundaries, where he should and shouldn't be. Sticking him in the cage isn't going to solve the issue unless you get the boundary training done properly. The ignore part does work, especially with a bird that is pretty bonded to you. If Lola did something naughty, I ignore her, she doesn't like it. I bring out the training perch when they're out of order. They straighten out real quick when they see the training perch. It is what I use to block them or make them step up onto when I needed them to. Macaws are super smart 2 year olds that never grows up, they will always test their boundaries. But with the proper training, they can be taken care of.

 

[Anansi]

Hey, Michael. I'm not saying that a bird can't adjust to a clipping, especially given the amount of experience you have working with them. The truth is, I don't know for certain the long-term psychological effects. We all have to go with our instincts and best intentions when it comes to what is best for our fids.

BUT, that said, Kissed82 was asking about any possible adverse effects of clipping Nero's wings. And you have to admit, clipping the wings of a bird that is used to flight and obviously enjoys it has a strong chance of affecting him both psychologically and emotionally. Whether the effect on his personality would be permanent or not would likely depend on both him as an individual and the nature of his bond with Kissed82.
At least, that's my take.

I definitely agree about the boundaries, however. I'm interested to hear more about how you go about enforcing them.

 

[GW.Joe]

Remember, the wing feathers will grow back. Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to give him a trim, just enough so he can't be flying all over the place, and then you will probably have an easier time training him.

I agree with Wendy

For me personally I use trimming as a way to control the bird for their own safety

It is also a very good way to "reset" the birds training, it will get his attention, it will lessen him wanting to test you, he will feel dependent on you for his movements

Just clip a small amount and test his flight ability, then clip again till you get him to the point of not being able to "reach" certain points in your home

You will see an immediate attitude change for the better

And they grow back Very fast, in like 2-3 weeks you may see him flying again

Hope this helps you!!

Joe

 

[yann]

clipping is a personal decision really life is easier i guess if the fella is clipped but it won't solve the problem in the long run.

one thing that worked for me…and hopefully may work for ya~ is to cover whatever you don't want him getting to with a slippery sheet of plastic or a foreign scary looking cloth, basically something that he won't want to land on. after some time, it seems that the fids end up losing their interest in it and won't bother messing the stuff up

 

[MikeyTN]

It's a learning process for any animal! When a animal looses a limb they keep on. They have the will to live and go on. But a clipped wing will grow back during molt. It's a personal decision to be made. As in psychological effect IMO I have to say not really. All my can fly but none of them really flies around except to either fly to me or look for me if I leave the room. But mostly just craw around most of the time. I rarely have birds flying all over, mainly small birds. Even the wild birds I've cared for in the past, samething, although they couldn't fly but they still go about their daily routine of eating, drinking, chirp, preen, bathe, etc. I just never talk about these stuffs because everyone sees it differently but this is how I observed them.

 

[Kissed82]

I want to thank everyone for each and every personal thought. I know it is a touchy subject. Nero has been clipped as of yesterday. After long chat at the clinic, me being newer with birds (2 years and only 9 months or so with a large bird) my lack of knowledge, my up coming surgery, the things Nero is doing.... a clip seemed best THIS time. I have to re work the training I was advised to do and try somethings differently. This is a learning curve for both of us. I only want what is best for Nero and my other loved ones.

I will be doing as much reading and researching as I can. I will be open ears to more choices and methods. I hope to never have to clip him again.

It has only been a day and he SEEMS to be rather unaffected so far. like I said SEEMS. I imagined that I would have noticed something right away. I guess time will tell.

I will also be checking back for training suggestions.
Thank you

 

[RavensGryf]

I don't know for certain the long-term psychological effects. We all have to go with our instincts and best intentions when it comes to what is best for our fids.

I think a lot of it has to do with whether or not the individual is already USED TO flying or not.
For Robin, (and other birds I know of) can't fly because either they never have, or have a permanent injury, or if the owner just has always kept them clipped for safety and it doesn't know anything else, or for whatever the reason, those birds can still have a psychologically healthy existence, and a fulfilling life just as well.

On the other hand, if the particular bird KNOWS and enjoys flight, and it is therefore second nature to them, I think they may to some extent feel at least a little disappointed if not unhappy as they adjust to the difference. Then again, other birds will be okay with it and not too upset. It all depends on the individual.

But, ultimately you have to do what you feel will be best for the situation. If Nero SEEMS like he isn't too bugged by the change, my bet is he's fine with it. I think it's YOU who feels worse about it Good luck with the training, and your surgery.

 

[Freespin]

Keep in mind that clipping can be a temporary thing which could help keep him manageable for others while you have your surgery and recover. His flight feathers WILL grow back so dont stress and as they are growing back you can use the time to do some extra training and a bit more bird proofing =D