Multi-zon households?

[ravvlet]

I feel a little crazy just posting this thread title, but I know there are some multi-zon households here on PF, and some who aren’t, and I’d like some feedback. After our ‘tiel passed away, we were all really heartbroken. We gave away his cage & carrier and things to other local parrot owners, and decided we were just going to be a single birb household. We resisted the cute conures, the sad looking tiels, the oft-overlooked budgies… And of course, Kirby does a good job racking up vet bills, which is it’s own special brand of deterrent, heh.

Today however, someone local put up an ad looking to rehome their 45 year old yellow nape, and I caved a little bit. I reached out for info and he sounds a lot like Kirby did before we got him - barking, engaging with kids, says his own name etc, but is cage-bound because the current owner is often out of town for work and her family is afraid of him. (Kirby was, I kid you not, described as a mean old bird or some such in his ad?! I swear I might get one bite annually from him!) I really feel for the little guy (his name is Sammy) but a 45 year old, confirmed overweight, halfway through transitioning to pellets ‘zon when we’ve just gotten ours stable might be a bad idea? Probably?

Sammy has seen a vet, but hasn’t had bloodwork done, so I’d be willing to wager at his age and diet/housing conditions he’s probably going to have liver and heart issues not unlike Kirby. Also, perhaps more importantly, he has NEVER been around other parrots. This is a boon health-wise as it means he likely isn’t carrying any psittacine diseases (but we would quarantine anyway), but it also means he’s a big “unknown” when it comes to how he’d tolerate being in the same room as another bird. Kirby on the other hand used to be “roommates” with a BFA at a previous home, who he took to immediately, so while I am concerned about his reaction, I am *less* concerned as he’s had a history of doing well with parrots of various sizes and species.

Am I typing this up whilst Kirby obliviously munches on a pepper and talks to me sweetly, not knowing I am plotting betrayal? Yep. Sammy’s owner offered to let us come visit him and see if he likes us first, as that’s obviously the most important thing (apparently he prefers women in hoodies, which is my signature look, haha). I remember being this reluctant about Kirby initially too, and that has really worked out wonderfully for the most part in spite of all my misgivings and concerns.

So- after all that, if you’re still with me, what is your experience with multiple-amazon households? I know the cardinal rules of multi-parrot households is “expect the unexpected”. They could get along famously, they could hate each other; they could get along famously and hate ME, and all sorts of things in between. In the end, is it better for the parrots -especially two elderly fellows - to fly solo, or might we be able to work out a bachelor-pad situation for them?

(also, if you are in my area, I’d be happy to connect you with this person if you think you’d be a better fit!)

 

[SailBoat]

It helps to be crazy to be an Amazon household. One is Certifiable Nuts when they become a multiple-amazon household. Just Ask Wes!

That all said. IF you have the financial ability to place your Avian Vet's kids thru college. Taking on another Amazon with known or highly-likely medical issues should be a known path for you! Just remember that there are no assurances that they will like each other or they will bond and the Humans will be the odd-ones out.

IF the above is understood! Have at it!!

 

[texsize]

As you already stated there is no way to know ahead of time if two birds will get along or not.

That said I have enjoyed multiple amazons since 1985.
Even when they don't get along and have to be kept separately they play off each other. Vocalizing back and forth. Imitating each other.

My current pair of Amazons (the twins) Green cheek amazon's .
Merlin is much more active and playful than Luna is and he can get carried away when he fight's with his toys.
I have a very special set up for the Twins.
I have 2 cages connected to each other but with a small pass through hole. When Merlin gets up to dickens Luna makes a dash for the other portion of the cage to "sit it out" in safety.

I have had an Orange Wing (my first parrot) and still have a Yellow nape.
I don't trust Bingo (yellow nape) not to all out attack my other amazon parrots but he has shown outward signs of friendship with Merlin.
So far I have been to afraid to try letting them get together.

Wes.

 

[ravvlet]

As you already stated there is no way to know ahead of time if two birds will get along or not.

That said I have enjoyed multiple amazons since 1985.
Even when they don't get along and have to be kept separately they play off each other. Vocalizing back and forth. Imitating each other.

My current pair of Amazons (the twins) Green cheek amazon's .
Merlin is much more active and playful than Luna is and he can get carried away when he fight's with his toys.
I have a very special set up for the Twins.
I have 2 cages connected to each other but with a small pass through hole. When Merlin gets up to dickens Luna makes a dash for the other portion of the cage to "sit it out" in safety.

I have had an Orange Wing (my first parrot) and still have a Yellow nape.
I don't trust Bingo (yellow nape) not to all out attack my other amazon parrots but he has shown outward signs of friendship with Merlin.
So far I have been to afraid to try letting them get together.

Wes.

This is really great info. That is honestly my biggest fear; if Sammy really dislikes Kirby or turns out to be very bird aggressive. I don’t want to put Kirby into a situation where his quality of life suffers at all! The current owner doesn’t know if he’s ever been around another bird, although he’s been around other pets. I can budget for vet bills just fine; but budgeting my time is harder, and this is Kirby’s house first.

 

[ravvlet]

Actually - would it be a health risk to Kirby to take him to meet Sammy? We have tentatively scheduled to meet him at his home (an hour away; isn’t that how it always goes?) Sunday afternoon. It would be insightful to bring Kirby along and see how both parties react; but I also don’t want to risk Kirby’s health in any way. Our current plan was, if we went through on adopting Sam, to quarantine him in the master bedroom for a month.

 

[Laurasea]

as a solo bird for so long, I agree in thinking low risk of contagious diseases.

I hope this does work out. You sound like a great home for him.

 

[ravvlet]

Ah, bummer. I had spoken to a vet tech before about costs/etc, but our actual vet got back to me - she made the same point Texsize did; she was very concerned that given Kirby’s size/health a yellow-nape could do some serious damage in a short time if he had a mind to; and this bird’s history is a big unknown when it comes to other birds!

Her advice was, if we decide to adopt a second parrot (but especially an amazon), to choose a subspecies that is the same size or smaller than Kirby. While it would be very possible to house both birds separately even if they did not get along, I know I am a busy mom and I worry they wouldn’t both get the amount of attention they deserve. Even if my house is a significant step up from his current situation, I think it’s important to consider that I don’t want to sacrifice Kirby’s quality of life…

They did however give me a list of local rescues who are their clients to check out! So maybe if we decide we’d like to welcome a second bird into our flock, we will go that route.

Again; if anyone here is in the Seattle area & wants to give this parrot a chance I’m happy to connect you.

 

[ravvlet]

as a solo bird for so long, I agree in thinking low risk of contagious diseases.

I hope this does work out. You sound like a great home for him.

This is what I was thinking too; but the vet seemed to think it would not be safe. Of course I didn’t give her the full run down; she just knew the other birds species.

 

[Laurasea]

most of the bad but long time to show viruses would have already showed by 45 years...like the PVD of PBFD.
One or the other can always be a long time carrier of chlamydia...but that's always a risk and would not likely show during a month quarantine, its just if one ever got immune suppressed and was a carrier and started to shed.... but is treatable. And also very low possibility after all this time.
Ofcourse I always default to a avian veterinarian. And there stuff I don't know

 

[ravvlet]

most of the bad but long time to show viruses would have already showed by 45 years...like the PVD of PBFD.
One or the other can always be a long time carrier of chlamydia...but that's always a risk and would not likely show during a month quarantine, its just if one ever got immune suppressed and was a carrier and started to shed....
Ofcourse I always default to a avian veterinarian. And there stuff I don't know

We would definitely be doing a full work up with a vet with any new bird.

Augh, I told them we weren’t sure it was a great idea anymore after feedback from our vet and they re-advertised him for $100 less (150). Im terribly concerned about what might happen to him, but I’m also deeply concerned about the risk to Kirby. I’ve never had parrots fight but I’ve had aggressive male quail and it wasn’t pretty.

 

[Laurasea]

well Wrench introduced his Salty to tge blue front Amy both were boys..
I think it really depends on these two individuals and what they think of each other?
I really don't know how male Amazon are? How do they flock and behavior in the wild? I turn to that a lot when trying think on behavior

 

[wrench13]

Yeah, Salty is 1/2 the size of Amy, who is a BFA. It was love at first site for those two, with Amy jealously guarding Salty, even after lots of play dates. Both males, BTW. I suspect that I would eventually be the odd man out, if I had adopted Amy.
It really comes down to the chemistry between the 2 parrots.

 

[ravvlet]

Yeah! I have no idea what they’re like in the wild.

Yeah, Salty is 1/2 the size of Amy, who is a BFA. It was love at first site for those two, with Amy jealously guarding Salty, even after lots of play dates. Both males, BTW. I suspect that I would eventually be the odd man out, if I had adopted Amy.
It really comes down to the chemistry between the 2 parrots.

In Kirby's previous home, they had a female BFA, and Kirby bonded to the BFA over the humans. I don't necessarily have an issue with this though; as long as it won't result in breeding and both birds are happy. He mostly just lets me pet him; he's not a very hands-on guy, so while I'd miss him being sociable with me as long as he's happy I am happy.

My concern is really mostly if he was at risk of getting hurt!

 

[Laurasea]

Link of wild Amazon parrot behavior
Post in thread 'Ornithology: Share and discuss scientific articles on parrots!' https://www.parrotforums.com/thread...entific-articles-on-parrots.82369/post-987413

 

[SailBoat]

Size does matter, but more an issue of the chemistry between the two Amazons. I am not as sold on your Vets opinion regarding it being a 'serious' issue.

In they're natural settings, different Amazon Species can and do live near each other. Issues only develop when one group want to steal the other group's nests.

 

[ravvlet]

Yeah, that’s the idea I am getting now having read that article. The vet whose opinion we got wasn’t our regular vet, but another avian vet at her practice, so maybe she’s not as experienced (or has a very specific negative experience in mind)…

 

[texsize]

How does Kirby act/respond when shown a video of other Amazon parrots?

This and how Luna was responding towards Bingo were my primary reasons for getting a companion for Luna.
Luna was a rescue bird and was found on the sidewalk of San Diego. I don't have a lot to go on for back story but she was owned by someone who taught her to talk a little. There is also a wild flock of parrots of her species in the area.
I think because she is such a screamer the owner let her loose to join the wild flock. But as a caged bird she could not keep up with the wild flock.
Anyway it's all guess work but she had a strong reaction to Amazon parrot videos and I was sure she wanted company.

Bingo thinks of himself as a person not a parrot and I never considered him as a friend/companion for Luna.

Luna is slightly friendly but very afraid of hands.
Merlin (her companion) is very good with step up and can be handled but is still mostly a hands off bird.

try showing Kirby some YT videos from "Tico and the man" and see how he reacts.

wes

 

[ravvlet]

How does Kirby act/respond when shown a video of other Amazon parrots?

This and how Luna was responding towards Bingo were my primary reasons for getting a companion for Luna.
Luna was a rescue bird and was found on the sidewalk of San Diego. I don't have a lot to go on for back story but she was owned by someone who taught her to talk a little. There is also a wild flock of parrots of her species in the area.
I think because she is such a screamer the owner let her loose to join the wild flock. But as a caged bird she could not keep up with the wild flock.
Anyway it's all guess work but she had a strong reaction to Amazon parrot videos and I was sure she wanted company.

Bingo thinks of himself as a person not a parrot and I never considered him as a friend/companion for Luna.

Luna is slightly friendly but very afraid of hands.
Merlin (her companion) is very good with step up and can be handled but is still mostly a hands off bird.

try showing Kirby some YT videos from "Tico and the man" and see how he reacts.

wes

Oh, that’s clever!

I know when he lived in his last house with a blue fronted Amazon named Rico, he bonded STRONGLY to Rico. He loved preening her (and being preened) and they were best buds, to the exclusion of the humans (but, the humans were really not good with parrots - see previous post where they described Kirby as mean!)

Even with Cricket the cockatiel, he’d sometimes let Cricket sit on his back and preen him (I was so freaked out the first time he tried that, but Cricket wouldn’t give up and Kirby didn’t seem to mind).

I’ll try the video thing too though!

 

[ravvlet]

I found a video of a yellow nape making noises (along with some conure buddies) and Kirby definitely knew it was another bird - his head feathers went up and his tail fanned out, and he grumbled to himself some, but kept on chowing down on his pellets so I don’t know that he was too bothered.

Well, we won’t know anything for another week because the person’s family got a stomach bug so we postponed meeting Sammy till next weekend! I hate getting those, so I’m grateful they didn’t try to muscle through a meeting with us…

 

[ravvlet]

Heh, well, we went from deciding that this was crazy to deciding to just do it - so of course we aven’t heard from Sammy’s owner since they called to reschedule Saturday. Trying not to be too worried. Hoping everything is ok on their end & that they haven’t changed their mind. I guess we will see.