Moluccan x Major Mitchell Cockatoo hybrid (?)

[MeowMeow]

Can this be done?
Has this been done?
I want this to be done
I'm curious.

 

[BirdSquawk]

I wouldn't recommend cross-breeding different species. Moluccans are known to be aggressive to mates and could easily hurt or kill one, even if it's the same species.
Also, both species of cockatoo are threatened in the wild, so tainting the bloodlines would lessen the pure populations, which I don't think is responsible bird keeping.
Parrots are difficult to breed in the first place, you can't just throw two together and see what happens.
Sorry to burst your bubble!
(I don't know if genetically/scientifically/hypothetically it COULD happen, you'll have to ask someone else about that.)

 

[SailBoat]

A very interesting way to start on Parrot Forums!

Not sure if you are just stirring a pot or playing mind games.

Why not just start all over with a proper introduction!

 

[SilverSage]

Probably COULD be done but it would certainly be irresponsible


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MeowMeow]

There's nothing irresponsible about it, life comes in many shades and comes about in many ways. The variation you see in the Cockatoo family is evident of that. If nature were to allow the breeding, simply the possibility is enough to warrant the experiment. There would be no likelihood of such a remote breeding affecting general populations.

Who are the foremost experts in Cockatoo breeding?

 

[SilverSage]

It is not responsible to pollute our limited captive bloodlines in threatened and endangered species.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Scott]

Can this be done?
Has this been done?
I want this to be done
I'm curious.

There's nothing irresponsible about it, life comes in many shades and comes about in many ways. The variation you see in the Cockatoo family is evident of that. If nature were to allow the breeding, simply the possibility is enough to warrant the experiment. There would be no likelihood of such a remote breeding affecting general populations.

Who are the foremost experts in Cockatoo breeding?

Perhaps the two species have intermixed, either the result of a breeding accident or willful tinkering. The dearth of searchable examples argues against the perpetuation of interbreeding as suggested. Frankly, I would prefer to see creative energies devoted to preserving the genetic purity and vitality of aviculture. Global pressures and constraints on habitat suggest we focus on preserving the many unique flavors of cockatoo by respecting natural barriers!

I am curious to have many edgy experiences. It would be fascinating to experience death, only to instantly reconstitute as my unique self. Standing on the surface of the planet Mercury would be uber cool. Imagine witnessing a volcanic explosion at ground zero? If I knew I had one hour to live, my chocolate intake would ensure a blissful sugar and caffeine high. None of these things are particularly wise nor attainable. I have the ability to acquire a Moluccan + Major Mitchell and attempt to facilitate breeding. I do not want this to be done!

I do not know who if anybody is considered an expert cockatoo breeder, particularly from the POV of assessing the genetic roll of the dice. Are you willing to underwrite the experiment?

 

[EllenD]

There's nothing irresponsible about it, life comes in many shades and comes about in many ways. The variation you see in the Cockatoo family is evident of that. If nature were to allow the breeding, simply the possibility is enough to warrant the experiment. There would be no likelihood of such a remote breeding affecting general populations.

Who are the foremost experts in Cockatoo breeding?

It's not irresponsible for those two species of Cockatoos to breed with each other only if they do it on their own in the wild, same with any hybrid bird, animal, reptile, etc. species. Hybrid species breeding becomes completely irresponsible when human beings start messing with nature and purposely exuding our influence and/or our force onto other species in order to create a hybrid species that we think would be ideal for us.

If animals, birds, reptiles, etc. don't voluntarily and purposely breed outside of their own species naturally while in their native habitats, then you need to ask yourself why that is. If there is no breeding between Moluccan Cockatoos and Major Mitchell Cockatoos in their natural habitats and without us "Intelligent Human Beings" trying to influence them to do so, then you need to realize that there is a very good reason why. The birds inherently know it's not a good idea and that's why they don't do it. Maybe the two species crossed causes a horrible gene mutation to result, maybe it results in horrible physical or mental deficiencies, we as human beings just don't know until we forcefully try to make it happen. But the birds know. And human beings are so intelligent, and like you said that trying to create hybrid avian species "Isn't at all irresponsible", that when we can't get the two species to breed on their own, we then try to show how smart we are by crossing the two in a laboratory. That doesn't sound irresponsible to you?

Listen, I'm all for diversity and pushing boundaries, but when we start playing Dr. Moreau it is almost always the poor birds that suffer. Do your research, find out if the hybrid species of these two Cockatoos exists in nature, without human intervention, and go from there. And if it doesn't exist and the birds don't interbreed on their own in nature, then realize that there is a very good reason why.

"Dance like nobody's watching..."

 

[itzjbean]

There's quite a bit of controversy surrounding breeding different species of parrots together. There are hybrid cockatoos out there, but I have yet to see a Major Mitchell x Moluccan mix. I do love hybrid macaws. Major Mitchell babies can go for $3500-$5000 range, and Moluccans I see going for around $2000, so if breeding the two together, you would most likely end up losing money than if you were to breed two Mitchells.

The same can be said if a Hyacinth macaw was bred ($10,000+ value) to a, say, Blue and Gold, which is only around $1500-$1800 range. As a breeder, you lose the value if you breed different species. But of course this is all the business aspect. It is extremely difficult to breed cockatoos, moreso than macaws I think, so to try to put different species together that is hard enough to breed already, you're just asking for trouble...

 

[SilverSage]

And dead birds. Don't forget the tendency for Cockatoos to kill their mates if anything is even slightly "wrong" with them; like being a different species.

Macaw hybrids are quite popular. Do I love that fact? No. But I'm thankful that so far breeders have pretty much stuck to hybridizing the species we have a good healthy large population of. No one is hybridizing our hyacinths or blue throats thank God.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MeowMeow]

And dead birds. Don't forget the tendency for Cockatoos to kill their mates if anything is even slightly "wrong" with them; like being a different species.

Macaw hybrids are quite popular. Do I love that fact? No. But I'm thankful that so far breeders have pretty much stuck to hybridizing the species we have a good healthy large population of. No one is hybridizing our hyacinths or blue throats thank God.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've experienced this before and had to separate a pair that I rescued from a terrible situation. Of course, supervision would be necessary to avoid

It is not responsible to pollute our limited captive bloodlines in threatened and endangered species.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Neither species is listed as vulnerable

Many would say it's not responsible to have a parrot as a pet - highlighting the subjective nature of what we perceive to be responsible

I would also be interested in a Major Mitchell x Rose Breasted

There's quite a bit of controversy surrounding breeding different species of parrots together. There are hybrid cockatoos out there, but I have yet to see a Major Mitchell x Moluccan mix. I do love hybrid macaws. Major Mitchell babies can go for $3500-$5000 range, and Moluccans I see going for around $2000, so if breeding the two together, you would most likely end up losing money than if you were to breed two Mitchells.

The same can be said if a Hyacinth macaw was bred ($10,000+ value) to a, say, Blue and Gold, which is only around $1500-$1800 range. As a breeder, you lose the value if you breed different species. But of course this is all the business aspect. It is extremely difficult to breed cockatoos, moreso than macaws I think, so to try to put different species together that is hard enough to breed already, you're just asking for trouble...

Thank you for the insights.

 

[Scott]

Neither species is listed as vulnerable

Moluccan: Vulnerable
Cacatua moluccensis (Moluccan Cockatoo, Salmon-crested Cockatoo)

Major Mitchell: Least concern
Cacatua leadbeateri (Leadbeater's Cockatoo, Major Mitchell's Cockatoo, Pink Cockatoo)

 

[MeowMeow]

Neither species is listed as vulnerable

Moluccan: Vulnerable
Cacatua moluccensis (Moluccan Cockatoo, Salmon-crested Cockatoo)

Major Mitchell: Least concern
Cacatua leadbeateri (Leadbeater's Cockatoo, Major Mitchell's Cockatoo, Pink Cockatoo)

Still, one breeding isn't going to change that nor is the breeding exclusive. The bird can produce many offspring.

All I'm saying is - to have a preference for the bird to breed with it's own kind is one thing, to be vehemently opposed to a single breeding is another thing.

 

[SilverSage]

And all we are saying is; why take the risk? What BENEFIT is there to the birds involved?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MeowMeow]

And all we are saying is; why take the risk? What BENEFIT is there to the birds involved?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There shouldn't be any risk involved if the birds are properly tended to

 

[Scott]

And all we are saying is; why take the risk? What BENEFIT is there to the birds involved?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There shouldn't be any risk involved if the birds are properly tended to

Very well, but what is the benefit? Satisfaction of curiosity? Betterment of one or both species?

 

[SilverSage]

And all we are saying is; why take the risk? What BENEFIT is there to the birds involved?





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There shouldn't be any risk involved if the birds are properly tended to

There is ALWAYS risk in breeding any species, no matter how well tended to. These risk are multiplied greatly when mixing two species. You still haven't said how hybridization would benefit the birds, or aviculture as a whole.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kentuckienne]

One of the primary arguments advanced in favor of keeping parrots as captive pets - which so often ends in years of bitter suffering for the parrots - is that captive breeding maintains a genetic reservoir in case the bird becomes extinct in the wild. Leaving aside the fact that some parrots are endangered solely because of the "pet" trade, the argument is only valid as far as it applies to ethical breeding: selection of proper stock, not propagating birds with genetic weaknesses, proper training so babies don't die if they must be hand fed, proper medical care and pleasant living conditions for the birds.

Do I care if you mix a poodle and a collie? Not at all. In the first place, they aren't separate species, just cosmetic variants of a single one. Domestic dogs aren't going extinct in the wild because they don't exist in the wild. But if you breed a poodle and a wolf i begin to feel uneasy. If it's an interesting mix it will happen again, and the chances are some poodle lover will wind up with adult woodle that he can't manage, and it gets put on a chain in a backyard, or sold to a "good home" that is really a dog fighting ring. If there is a move to reestablish breeding wolves into a prior range in the wild where they are now extinct, these hybrids could be a source of gene pollution.

With parrots, the ONLY advantage of a hybrid is human pleasure - to satisfy curiosity, to possess something unique as a source of pride, or for the pleasure of looking at them. Are any of these intrinsically wrong? Let's not say wrong or right....but the human tendency to chase after novelty, pride and pleasure does not always work out well. We must have he newest shiny thing, and when it becomes worn as all things do it goes in the trash. Which often means polluting the land, the ocean, or poisoning the people who recycle the valuable parts. Plus it takes fuel to extract the raw materials and to make the thing in the first place, hence Dakota Access Pioeline, oil sand devastation in Canada, drilling in the arctic refuge, you get the picture. Indulging our desire for pleasure does not usually benefit the earth. Or us either. Who becomes more patient, more loving, more compassionate from getting a new iPhone every six months? How does it help us become more mindful, more aware? Is it legal to chase after pleasure? Of course. Does it build character and wisdom? Maybe not so much.

Chasing pleasure is not the same as pursuing happiness, or as taking pleasure in life. I can enjoy a beautiful sunset, and get out of my chair to go to a better vantage point, and that doesn't hurt anybody much. If I drive to the top of the hill in the next county, that does cause a little more suffering - I need a car, and gas etc. and my actions in concert with a million other people doing the same thing has a real impact. If such a simple thing has complex repercussions...it's hard to keep thinking about it...no wonder we have so much TV/internet/booze/heroin/texting/etc to distract us.

So cross-breeding captive birds, yah, it has repercussions. Take African Grey parrots which are terribly endangered in their native habitats because of illegal trapping for the lucrative pet trade. Forget for now how many suffer and die in the wild, during capture, during transport, in being forced into unnatural environments with humans who don't know or don't care to treat them right. I'm not seeing any upside for an intelligent bird in this. Oh, but captive breeding to the rescue, it maintains the gene pool, keeps them from going extinct, no more horrific poaching and trafficking! Well, then maintain the gene pool...don't breed defective birds...don't sell them to unprepared or uneducated humans...keep a record of the lineage to prevent inbreeding. Which won't happen because it interferes with our right to make money on stupid birds, for crissake, I can't afford to do all that, I just got these two siblings and it's my right to breed them if I want to and if someone wants to buy them. Right? Who cares if I only got a CAG and a TAG, a gray bird is a gray bird. Right?

With an endangered species it becomes even more important to keep the captive gene pool as pure as possible. One hybrid of itself doesn't do any harm, other than reduce the size of the pool, but if it becomes popular and everybody starts to want one that's a problem. If it breeds back into the pure population it's a problem. Now you have introduced subtle and major genetic changes into the species which will be impossible to remove and make any future reintroduction of wild populations difficult.

Hence the arguments made against, hence the repeated asking "what's in it for the birds".

 

[SailBoat]

A very interesting way to start on Parrot Forums!

Not sure if you are just stirring a pot or playing mind games.

Why not just start all over with a proper introduction!

There is nothing like the cold reality of time to determine the reasoning: Playing Mind Games.

If this was simply you wanting to have such a Parrot. You would have found a Breeder to force the union, had the eggs mechanically brooded, Human weened and fledged the chick(s). Custom parrots are only a matter of something less than ten thousand US dollars, that's pocket change for you.

 

[SilverSage]

I just got such an image of a "woodle"!

And I HOPE we end up with stricter regulations as breeders! You know I breed birds and more restrictions would be a nightmare but the things you say about inbreeding and breeding in genetic issues are MAJOR PROBLEMS that are ignored for the exact reason you are specifying; the almighty dollar! It's appalling the things we are allowed to do with absolutely no one caring.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk