greatdan1
New member
Hello eckie parents,I'm thinking about getting a multi vitamins to add to their food.Any feed back on vitamins greatly appreciated,thank you.
Molly & Marshall
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Even though both Delfin and Mulawa have good diets I still give supplements to my birds once a week. I purchased these supplements from Rob Marshall, who is a world renown Eclectus specialist. It made a huge difference to Delfin's appearance and behaviour.
Healthy bird, happy bird
Healthy bird, happy bird
Eclectus are very different than other parrots in regard to their diet PLEASE do not give them any vitamin supplements they can not handle it and it will lead to toe-tapping and wing flapping. They should get all the vitamins and minerals they need from natural fresh foods.
Ask or go to any eclectus expert here in the USA The Land of Vos, Laurella Densbough they will all say the same thing. No fortified foods, no dyed foods, no supplements.
Ask or go to any eclectus expert here in the USA The Land of Vos, Laurella Densbough they will all say the same thing. No fortified foods, no dyed foods, no supplements.
- Dec 18, 2013
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- Maya (Female Solomon Island eclectus parrot), Jolly (Male Solomon Island eclectus parrot), Bixby (Male, red-sided eclectus. RIP), Suzie (Male cockatiel. RIP)
I'll cosign with Laura and Karen on this. Eclectus parrots extract far more nutrition from their foods than most parrots do, due to the greater lengths of their intestinal tracts. Because of this, supplements or enriched foods such as pellets constitute too much of a good thing. Such overdosing can lead to the health issues Laura mentioned.
Instead, just make sure to give them a healthy diet of 85-90% fruits, veggies, legumes and grains, with seeds and nuts rounding things out or being offered as treats. That's all they need.
Instead, just make sure to give them a healthy diet of 85-90% fruits, veggies, legumes and grains, with seeds and nuts rounding things out or being offered as treats. That's all they need.
Rob Marshall BVSc MACVSc who is a Specialist on Eclectus parrots and designed these supplements for the Eclectus parrot and if you care to check his qualifications I think you find he is more than qualified.
I looked up the people mention and had a really hard time to find their actual qualifications and it seems that they don't want people to know that are only breeders. Yes they are good breeders but still only breeders, not Qualified Avian Vets.
Rob Marshall has keep birds since 1960. Graduated Veterinary Science in 1975. established a practice 4 years later. He continued to study bird health in Germany, Holland and the USA. In 1988 was awarded the MACVSc (Avian Health). He has also given lectures, written books and articles internationally. Through his research has developed a range of nutritional supplements for pet and aviary birds.
I have noticed that people will say if you have any concerns with your birds health then see a vet preferably a avian vet over a breeder. The US is not the only country who has people who are experts in the Eclectus or anything else. Of course here in Australia I would take advice from a Specialist avian vet before an expert or a breeder.
I not saying to replace a healthy diet with supplements. but at such events like breeding and nesting time I would consider supplements has these events take a lot out of a bird and a normal healthy diet mightn't be able to supply all the needed nutrition. Supplements shouldn't be a permanent part of a animals diet. so I would see an specialist avian vet for advice.
To say that using supplements Will cause Toe tapping and wing flapping is simply not true. Toe tapping and wing flapping can be cause by many things, these can be over supplement or a deficiency of vitamins / minerals. It can be heavy metal poisoning. Spirulina is also a cause. Because there are many causes, a blood test would be needed to identify the cause, so the correct course of action can be taken.
when Delfin was growing up I arranged for a visit with Rob Marshall and even though Delfin was on a really good and healthy diet he was still missing vitamins and minerals. I was shown what the indictors were (beak surface & feather colours). When Delfin's appearance became what it should be I cut back the use of supplements to once a week.
I have also been told that a healthy and good diet doesn't guarantee your bird will receive all the require vitamins and minerals. Apparently the amount of vitamins and minerals in the food stuff depends on where it was grown. Like most living things if it's not fed well than it won't grow well. So if plants are grown in poor soil, than their produce is low in vitamins and minerals, therefore the animals that eat this produce can developed a deficiency of vitamins / minerals. Made sense to me and that's why I give supplements once a week. Delfin is looking really good and Mulawa is also starting to look better.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion so long has it's an opinion.
I looked up the people mention and had a really hard time to find their actual qualifications and it seems that they don't want people to know that are only breeders. Yes they are good breeders but still only breeders, not Qualified Avian Vets.
Rob Marshall has keep birds since 1960. Graduated Veterinary Science in 1975. established a practice 4 years later. He continued to study bird health in Germany, Holland and the USA. In 1988 was awarded the MACVSc (Avian Health). He has also given lectures, written books and articles internationally. Through his research has developed a range of nutritional supplements for pet and aviary birds.
I have noticed that people will say if you have any concerns with your birds health then see a vet preferably a avian vet over a breeder. The US is not the only country who has people who are experts in the Eclectus or anything else. Of course here in Australia I would take advice from a Specialist avian vet before an expert or a breeder.
I not saying to replace a healthy diet with supplements. but at such events like breeding and nesting time I would consider supplements has these events take a lot out of a bird and a normal healthy diet mightn't be able to supply all the needed nutrition. Supplements shouldn't be a permanent part of a animals diet. so I would see an specialist avian vet for advice.
To say that using supplements Will cause Toe tapping and wing flapping is simply not true. Toe tapping and wing flapping can be cause by many things, these can be over supplement or a deficiency of vitamins / minerals. It can be heavy metal poisoning. Spirulina is also a cause. Because there are many causes, a blood test would be needed to identify the cause, so the correct course of action can be taken.
when Delfin was growing up I arranged for a visit with Rob Marshall and even though Delfin was on a really good and healthy diet he was still missing vitamins and minerals. I was shown what the indictors were (beak surface & feather colours). When Delfin's appearance became what it should be I cut back the use of supplements to once a week.
I have also been told that a healthy and good diet doesn't guarantee your bird will receive all the require vitamins and minerals. Apparently the amount of vitamins and minerals in the food stuff depends on where it was grown. Like most living things if it's not fed well than it won't grow well. So if plants are grown in poor soil, than their produce is low in vitamins and minerals, therefore the animals that eat this produce can developed a deficiency of vitamins / minerals. Made sense to me and that's why I give supplements once a week. Delfin is looking really good and Mulawa is also starting to look better.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion so long has it's an opinion.
Yes... an opinion including yours about this subject and about Dr. Marshall. From what I understand he developed his seed and supplements for racing pigeons initially.
Here's another of my opinions... If you asked Science Diet who makes the best dog food I'd lay money down on what they will say and pretty much everyone knows the real truth about that food.
Dr Marshall has made a lot of money on his supplements and diets and eclectus owners that I have known of here in the US (breeder or not) did not have great experience with them. You keep speaking of your two parrots as if they are eclectus and the experience you have with them and the supplements usage is the same. It just isn't.
That is all I will say on it you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I am not a vet but I have loved and worked with this species for 25 years. I have done rehab, rescued, bred and did consults with many owners on their birds so I am confident in my experience with many eclectus over the years to be very confident in the advise I give out. Do I know everything there is to know about these unique creatures? No, but then I am confident no one does. I believe we should never stop looking for knowledge about subjects we are passionate about.
Here's another of my opinions... If you asked Science Diet who makes the best dog food I'd lay money down on what they will say and pretty much everyone knows the real truth about that food.
Dr Marshall has made a lot of money on his supplements and diets and eclectus owners that I have known of here in the US (breeder or not) did not have great experience with them. You keep speaking of your two parrots as if they are eclectus and the experience you have with them and the supplements usage is the same. It just isn't.
That is all I will say on it you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I am not a vet but I have loved and worked with this species for 25 years. I have done rehab, rescued, bred and did consults with many owners on their birds so I am confident in my experience with many eclectus over the years to be very confident in the advise I give out. Do I know everything there is to know about these unique creatures? No, but then I am confident no one does. I believe we should never stop looking for knowledge about subjects we are passionate about.
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thekarens
New member
- Sep 29, 2013
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I think if you research breeders and long term owners of ekkies they will tell you supplements are a no no. You can also read the bad experiences of those who have used supplements.
Personally I find it hard to trust the opinion of someone who has a financial interest in that opinion.
Personally I find it hard to trust the opinion of someone who has a financial interest in that opinion.
I couldn't find out any information about the founders of science diet apart they were parents. But it seems that they have no qualifications at all. just self proclaimed experts. I couldn't see how this related to using supplements, has Science diet is pet food. Seem like a change of the subject.
Science diet was good then it went bad, why I don't know. We don't use process pet food. Expect for a small amount of pellets for the birds. We use fresh produce and make our own food for the birds, cats and Dog. If you had read the last paragraph of my previous post, this explains to why I give supplements once week.
Rob Marshall developed seed and supplements for racing pigeons. which by the way are a speciality supplement for racing pigeons. Again I couldn't see how this related to the subject. just another change of the subject.
I have owned 2 Eclectus parrots and I know the different between previous and the current birds needs.
I also looked at reviews in regards to Rob Marshall Products and practice and couldn't find one bad or negative review, Only excellent reviews. Of course if you know of a bad or negative review, please, send it through on a link so I can read it.
There are people who go on about how specialised the Eclectus Parrot is and how sensitive it needs are, and you need to be special to own and care for one. It seems to me that the Eclectus is being put on a pedestal. Well I too know a few breeders and they are of the opinion that there are people out in the world perpetuate the myth that the Eclectus are a specialised bird. But that doesn't make them specialise. They are just have different requirement and needs that people need to be aware of, before taking on the commitment and responsibility of a Eclectus parrot. Of course This should apply to all animals.
My father bred birds until he was seventy and I grew up around birds and have done rescues of a number of birds. Has I said before, I would take advice from a Specialist avian vet before an expert or a breeder.
I believe that the problem is not the supplements themselves, but in how they are administered. I only give half of what is recommended and only once a week, less is best. But I could be certain that there are people out there who give their birds way too much and when the bird become ill. They blame the supplements when they should be blaming themselves for not following the instructions. Then they go onto social media and complain about the supplements.
Vets and Breeders all do what they do to make money and they all have a financial interest in that. I would say that there are a lot of things being recommended by Vets and Breeders and they would be getting a kick back (financial Interest by opinion)for that. Bit like science diet dog food, there was vets and breeders recommending it for years has a good diet. That was until the proverbial hit the fan. Then every vet and breeder who had been recommending science diet was ducking for cover.
but in all really you can't blame the Vets and Breeders at the time of recommendation it was good.
Science diet was good then it went bad, why I don't know. We don't use process pet food. Expect for a small amount of pellets for the birds. We use fresh produce and make our own food for the birds, cats and Dog. If you had read the last paragraph of my previous post, this explains to why I give supplements once week.
Rob Marshall developed seed and supplements for racing pigeons. which by the way are a speciality supplement for racing pigeons. Again I couldn't see how this related to the subject. just another change of the subject.
I have owned 2 Eclectus parrots and I know the different between previous and the current birds needs.
I also looked at reviews in regards to Rob Marshall Products and practice and couldn't find one bad or negative review, Only excellent reviews. Of course if you know of a bad or negative review, please, send it through on a link so I can read it.
There are people who go on about how specialised the Eclectus Parrot is and how sensitive it needs are, and you need to be special to own and care for one. It seems to me that the Eclectus is being put on a pedestal. Well I too know a few breeders and they are of the opinion that there are people out in the world perpetuate the myth that the Eclectus are a specialised bird. But that doesn't make them specialise. They are just have different requirement and needs that people need to be aware of, before taking on the commitment and responsibility of a Eclectus parrot. Of course This should apply to all animals.
My father bred birds until he was seventy and I grew up around birds and have done rescues of a number of birds. Has I said before, I would take advice from a Specialist avian vet before an expert or a breeder.
I believe that the problem is not the supplements themselves, but in how they are administered. I only give half of what is recommended and only once a week, less is best. But I could be certain that there are people out there who give their birds way too much and when the bird become ill. They blame the supplements when they should be blaming themselves for not following the instructions. Then they go onto social media and complain about the supplements.
Vets and Breeders all do what they do to make money and they all have a financial interest in that. I would say that there are a lot of things being recommended by Vets and Breeders and they would be getting a kick back (financial Interest by opinion)for that. Bit like science diet dog food, there was vets and breeders recommending it for years has a good diet. That was until the proverbial hit the fan. Then every vet and breeder who had been recommending science diet was ducking for cover.
but in all really you can't blame the Vets and Breeders at the time of recommendation it was good.
thekarens
New member
- Sep 29, 2013
- 4,022
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Molly & Marshall
Which is why I said good breeders. Read up on for tapping and wing flapping. It's a real eye opener.
However, I have known breeders to recommend products that they believed in without compensation because their animals did well on the product.
Which is why I said good breeders. Read up on for tapping and wing flapping. It's a real eye opener.
However, I have known breeders to recommend products that they believed in without compensation because their animals did well on the product.
JerseyWendy
New member
- Jul 20, 2012
- 20,995
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I'll leave this link (and there are MANY more links within this one) for your reading pleasure. (and the word 'supplement' can be found quite often - and most definitely not in a positive way)
Land of Vos - General Care and Information Articles/Talk/Weaning/Aloe/General/Entertainment
Land of Vos - General Care and Information Articles/Talk/Weaning/Aloe/General/Entertainment
Dinosrawr
New member
- Aug 15, 2013
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- Avery, a GCC born on March 5th, 2013 & Shiko, a blue IRN born on February 25th, 2014
I was reading the suggestions by Rob Marshall out of curiosity, and I've found his main reason (from what I've read) for supplementation is that seasonable availability of fruits makes it difficult to provide them with the necessary vitamins and nutrients required. That's reasonable.
The one thing though, is that he suggests supplementing Eclectus birds EVERY DAY with something - be it water cleaner, protein powder (which is essentially what his "energy powder" is), his water-based vitamins and minerals, and his water gel (which is another energy booster). There's already a discord with information, because Delfin, you admit to only supplementing Eclectus half of what is recommended, and only once a week... isn't that a sign that he's kind of telling you to do this to a crazy high extent and that it's mainly for profit? I just also want to add that nutritionists know that vitamin supplements actually aren't beneficial compared to the natural foods you can get them from - though how that translates to birds I'm not sure.
I think it's safe to agree that if you AREN'T keeping track of vitamin and mineral content of the food you feed, perhaps MINOR supplements may be required. But I think we all know that no Eclectus should be given the amount of supplements (his Energy powder daily?!) that Marshall recommends... it just seems like serious over kill...
The one thing though, is that he suggests supplementing Eclectus birds EVERY DAY with something - be it water cleaner, protein powder (which is essentially what his "energy powder" is), his water-based vitamins and minerals, and his water gel (which is another energy booster). There's already a discord with information, because Delfin, you admit to only supplementing Eclectus half of what is recommended, and only once a week... isn't that a sign that he's kind of telling you to do this to a crazy high extent and that it's mainly for profit? I just also want to add that nutritionists know that vitamin supplements actually aren't beneficial compared to the natural foods you can get them from - though how that translates to birds I'm not sure.
I think it's safe to agree that if you AREN'T keeping track of vitamin and mineral content of the food you feed, perhaps MINOR supplements may be required. But I think we all know that no Eclectus should be given the amount of supplements (his Energy powder daily?!) that Marshall recommends... it just seems like serious over kill...
Human fruits, vegetables and agricultural grains may satisfy the Eclectus parrots foraging requirements, However they do not provide a complete nutritional balance diet for the Eclectus parrot. The pulp and seeds of rainforest fruits are needed as they are part of the Eclectus Parrot's staple diet . Such has the fruit and nuts of Pandanus palms, Parinari nonda and Moreton Bay Chestnut, which I haven't found any of, in my local super market.... Therefore to provide the correct Balance of nutrients that is required for the vitality and longevity of captive Eclectus parrots kept as pets or breeding pairs , supplements are given in addition to fruits, vegetables and seeds, has part of a Health programme. In other words, there are certain foods which provide certain vitamins and minerals required by the Eclectus parrot that just can't be brought from a shop. This was discovered over a number of years by field researchers who went into the Rain forest to observed and recorded the Behaviours of the wild Eclectus Parrot. This data was then used by Rob Marshall to develop and achieved his health programme. This is called being scientific and research isn't cheap.
First I don't have Eclectus parrots anymore. One managed to fly out of the aviary door and we never saw her again. So we had the other wing clipped. We believe that one died from a fall off a cage, He couldn't fly due to the really bad wing clipping job. This is why I don't like wing clipping. He had all the flying abilities of a rock afterwards.
Even through Delfin was receiving a good diet, on his first vet visit he was diagnose with a vitamin/ mineral deficiency. Delfin is the only one receiving supplements and while Delfin has a really good diet, he will not eat pellets. I made changes because Delfin is not an Eclectus. So I started at a lower level and slowly increase until I reached a level when Delfin is looking really good. Mulawa doesn't get any supplements because she has a good diet and eats pellets. This had nothing to with signs of crazy high extent or profit.
The Land of Vos
I saw a photo of a woman ( Carolyn Spicegood) wearing what look like a Airline pilot uniform with a caption "land of Vos flight academy" expert fledging instructions" Is that a sales pitch or what.
While supplement is mention so is OVERSUPPLEMENTED.
I have look at a number of sites and the one theme that is consistent is that people feed veggies, fruit, pellets and then supplements which is the serious overkill and you put the blame on the supplements. Who fed them to the bird? Surely they should take responsibility. But instead they blame others.
I use supplements because Delfin had a vitamin/ mineral deficiency and to prevent it from returning. The one thing about supplement is that you can control the amount. This can't be done with pellets, regardless if they are organic or not. Has I said before Supplements are not meant to be permanent. but to be used when required.
Has for breeder not receiving compensation. What a load of BS, all breeders have costs and if they can reduce their costs they will and I have no doubt if offered a discount on pet food for advising on the breeder website the breeders will take it. So is that for profit or financial interest
I observed that the Womach brothers (bird tricks) were criticised for not having any qualifications and a number of people saying I will only take my bird to a qualified Avian vet, not a back yard vet. Here we have a qualified Avian vet with at least 40 year experience, who specialised in the Eclectus parrot. has studied in four countries, written books and conducts scientific research. and I'm being told that a breeder with no avian vet qualifications, has not studied in four countries or conducted scientific research is more qualified. Go figure. I know who I would take advise from.
I have said my piece.
First I don't have Eclectus parrots anymore. One managed to fly out of the aviary door and we never saw her again. So we had the other wing clipped. We believe that one died from a fall off a cage, He couldn't fly due to the really bad wing clipping job. This is why I don't like wing clipping. He had all the flying abilities of a rock afterwards.
Even through Delfin was receiving a good diet, on his first vet visit he was diagnose with a vitamin/ mineral deficiency. Delfin is the only one receiving supplements and while Delfin has a really good diet, he will not eat pellets. I made changes because Delfin is not an Eclectus. So I started at a lower level and slowly increase until I reached a level when Delfin is looking really good. Mulawa doesn't get any supplements because she has a good diet and eats pellets. This had nothing to with signs of crazy high extent or profit.
The Land of Vos
I saw a photo of a woman ( Carolyn Spicegood) wearing what look like a Airline pilot uniform with a caption "land of Vos flight academy" expert fledging instructions" Is that a sales pitch or what.
While supplement is mention so is OVERSUPPLEMENTED.
I have look at a number of sites and the one theme that is consistent is that people feed veggies, fruit, pellets and then supplements which is the serious overkill and you put the blame on the supplements. Who fed them to the bird? Surely they should take responsibility. But instead they blame others.
I use supplements because Delfin had a vitamin/ mineral deficiency and to prevent it from returning. The one thing about supplement is that you can control the amount. This can't be done with pellets, regardless if they are organic or not. Has I said before Supplements are not meant to be permanent. but to be used when required.
Has for breeder not receiving compensation. What a load of BS, all breeders have costs and if they can reduce their costs they will and I have no doubt if offered a discount on pet food for advising on the breeder website the breeders will take it. So is that for profit or financial interest
I observed that the Womach brothers (bird tricks) were criticised for not having any qualifications and a number of people saying I will only take my bird to a qualified Avian vet, not a back yard vet. Here we have a qualified Avian vet with at least 40 year experience, who specialised in the Eclectus parrot. has studied in four countries, written books and conducts scientific research. and I'm being told that a breeder with no avian vet qualifications, has not studied in four countries or conducted scientific research is more qualified. Go figure. I know who I would take advise from.
I have said my piece.
Let me speak a little slower... I. Do. Not. Feed. Pellets. nor do I recommend them. I don't give a prickly pear about "Such has the fruit and nuts of Pandanus palms, Parinari nonda and Moreton Bay Chestnut" why because there are other foods that provide the same vitamins and minerals as these. What we must strive for is a healthy balance. I don't eat meat except fish does that mean I don't get enough protein, no, because there are many foods that actually contain more protein than meat.
I SEE my eclectus daily, they SHINE. I spend a small fortune on exotic as well as the more common organic fruits and veggies. Dried organic flowers. Constantly providing them with living sprouted seeds and beans. I have no doubt in my mind nor my avian vets that I am in fact feeding them the correct diet for optimal health. I am offended and will have words with anyone who might suggest otherwise.
You can call BS all you want, breeders here do not get kick backs from food companies. Now if they are set up as an actual business and not hobby breeders then they can purchase some things at wholesale prices with a tax id and write off expenses at the end of the year but that is the extent of it.
One last thing about qualifications, a person can gain a lot of knowledge hands on, from life experience. To discredit a person by that criteria says quite a bit about you. If I had a health issue with my parrots I would go to my vet, if there was a behavior, breeding, food, question that I didn't know. I would contact someone like Laurella Densbough or Carolyn Spicegood breeders who have dealt exclusively with eclectus for many, many years. I have had the distinct pleasure of meeting and talking to Laurella. She is literally a fountain of information concerning eclectus.
As for the remark about the "sales pitch" of Carolyn wearing a pilot's jacket, did you happen to notice how BIG it is? It is a joke.. her husband is a pilot and that is his coat!
I SEE my eclectus daily, they SHINE. I spend a small fortune on exotic as well as the more common organic fruits and veggies. Dried organic flowers. Constantly providing them with living sprouted seeds and beans. I have no doubt in my mind nor my avian vets that I am in fact feeding them the correct diet for optimal health. I am offended and will have words with anyone who might suggest otherwise.
You can call BS all you want, breeders here do not get kick backs from food companies. Now if they are set up as an actual business and not hobby breeders then they can purchase some things at wholesale prices with a tax id and write off expenses at the end of the year but that is the extent of it.
One last thing about qualifications, a person can gain a lot of knowledge hands on, from life experience. To discredit a person by that criteria says quite a bit about you. If I had a health issue with my parrots I would go to my vet, if there was a behavior, breeding, food, question that I didn't know. I would contact someone like Laurella Densbough or Carolyn Spicegood breeders who have dealt exclusively with eclectus for many, many years. I have had the distinct pleasure of meeting and talking to Laurella. She is literally a fountain of information concerning eclectus.
As for the remark about the "sales pitch" of Carolyn wearing a pilot's jacket, did you happen to notice how BIG it is? It is a joke.. her husband is a pilot and that is his coat!
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When people start resorting to being patronising, condescending and a I don't care what your opinion is, in their replies. It shows quite a bit about them too. It seems that you have very little substance to what you are posting, nor have you addressed all the points I have raised. you have just keep repeating yourself, changing the subject, with the occasion point, and by the way you're are not speaking to me, so going s l o w e r, Just show the contempt that you have for the opinions of others which differ from yours. You seem to think that a hobby breeder of 25 years is more experience and better qualified to speak about behaviour, breeding and food than a Avian Vet. Rob Marshall started Breeding birds in 1960 and still is today. which means he has been breeding birds for 55 years and has been Avian vet for 40 years. which also includes scientific research into bird nutrition.
Actually I never discredited anyone's experience. I simply posted that Rob Marshall is more qualified and experience than a breeder to speak about birds health, nutrition and the correct use of supplements.
Here is another opinion of mine,
The good old U S of A is not the only country that has People who are knowledgeable and experienced in parrots or anything else for that matter, and Australia is not some 3rd world backwater country with a bunch of hicks residing there.
Actually I never discredited anyone's experience. I simply posted that Rob Marshall is more qualified and experience than a breeder to speak about birds health, nutrition and the correct use of supplements.
Here is another opinion of mine,
The good old U S of A is not the only country that has People who are knowledgeable and experienced in parrots or anything else for that matter, and Australia is not some 3rd world backwater country with a bunch of hicks residing there.
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