Major weight fluctuation with Ellie, my 6 month Tiel

[MichelleBeth]

Hi, I know I should go and make an intro post, but I wanted to get some opinions on this.

I have two cockatiels. Chester is six and my newest, Ellie, is around 6 months old. I believe they were born in late March (I am unsure of their gender).

I've had cockatiels for many years, but after recently losing my 21-22 year old extremely suddenly I've become very paranoid of the health of my new one. I guess it transferred over to them after I lost Charlie.

I took both to get a vet check about a week after I got Ellie. My avian vet said both were fine. I was worried and anxious that Ellie was underweight because their keel bone feels much more defined than Chester or my other Charlie's did.

When I got Ellie, they weighed 85 grams. In about 10 days, Ellie's weight shot up to 96. Then, it spiked again in a matter of days to a whopping 106.2 grams. I freaked out thinking that Ellie was a hen and started worrying about egg binding.. but their weight went down and hung around 102 for about a week. Then, it started to decline again 5 days ago and is currently at 94.0.

I plotted all this in an Excel chart where the weight fluctaition is really apparent. But, Chester's weight follows the same pattern, although not to the same extreme as Ellie's. I only became worried after noticing Ellie weighed only 93.4 around 4:40pm on the 15th.

Part of this could be due to me forgetting to weigh at the same time. The time of day is an average of 7PM, but I've weighed them anywhere from 4:00PM to 10:00 PM (I'm forgetful and often would remember right when I was covering them for the night that I had forgotten to weigh them earlier that day.)

I also would sometimes weigh an hour or so later when there was a light weight, because of paranoia.. so that gave less than clear results. Right now, I have excel taking an average of any days where I have multiple entries for weights. (yeah, I'm kind of tedious).

There was one entry where the night before dipped way down, the the day after shot way up (six gram difference).. I noticed this reflected in Chester's weight too.. although not to the extreme.

I've attached a picture of the graph I plotted so far. Any advice would be welcome. If their weight continues to decline over the next week I will probably be taking them back to the vet for a check up. Ellie is eating though.. but I have noticed there's not as many poops on the bottom of her/his cage.. verses when they were hovering in the 100 range. There was a lot more.

Maybe they're just settling in? I got Ellie on July 5th from a local shop that specializes in birds and fish. They were on a 40% pellet 40% seed ~20% veg diet at the store. I switched them over to 75% pellet (harrison's high potency) ~10% seed (nutriberry) and 15% veg. Chester is the same ratio, except he eats Zupreem pellets. Both are eating and show no signs of illness or being lethargic.

Below is the weight graph, you can see how extreme Ellie's weight appears to fluctuate.. but Chester's follows the same pattern.. so I'm thinking it's something on my end where I weighed at the wrong time or caught them before they pooped or something. Thanks for any advice.

 

[SailBoat]

Great that you are tracking your Parrots weight! However, you are making a very basic error in weighing them. The best way to have your numbers have real meaning is to weigh them first thing in the morning before they eat or drink and with luck have had a movement.

This sets a more stable weight base in place and worth charting. End of day or late day weighing is little more than a general weight and not worth charting.

 

[MichelleBeth]

Great that you are tracking your Parrots weight! However, you are making a very basic error in weighing them. The best way to have your numbers have real meaning is to weigh them first thing in the morning before they eat or drink and with luck have had a movement.

This sets a more stable weight base in place and worth charting. End of day or late day weighing is little more than a general weight and not worth charting.

Thank you so much for the response! I've read this before, but I leave for work at 6:40, and I hate to wake them at 6 in the morning. If it gives more accurate readings I'll adjust their sleep schedules though.

So you're saying the crazy weight fluctuations probably isn't something I should be extremely worried about, taking into consideration how varied my timing was when I weighed them?

 

[SailBoat]

Yup! Even with the variation in time, the biggest issues with late day weighing is what they and when they are eating, drinking and having movements! That will push the numbers all over the place and will drive you nuts trying to understand what's happening.

 

[plumsmum2005]

If everything else is fine with your birds then you could leave it till the weekend but as said be consistent when you weigh.

Feeding a high ratio of pellets will contain more fat than the veg.

 

[SilverSage]

Agreed; weighing at different times is going to radically change the results. And my birds are up long before that time of day, so don't feel bad also, a bit of weight change with a new home is to be expected. I suggest weighing every day only for one more week (and only for your own nerves) and then drop it down to once a week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MonicaMc]

Agree with the others.


I would also like to point out that cockatiels shouldn't eat more than 50% of their diet as pellets. A seed based diet can be just as bad as a pellet based diet. One can lead to malnutrition and liver failure, the other can lead to kidney failure.


Seeds are also an important part of a cockatiels diet. If you are not comfortable feeding seeds as a larger portion, then why not feed sprouted seeds?

And if you can, bump up the amount of fresh foods!

 

[Tropical]

You should always weigh first thing in the morning as tiels will weigh more towards end of day... but my tiel Rascal weighed 82 grams and then shot up to 101 grams in just about 5 days (he was pigging out on Coconut's new food mix) but then few short days later he was down to 86 grams. If your tiel kept losing weight for many days and is unable to MAINTAIN weight and just keeps losing significant weight then that is another story. What you are describing would not have me worried and are not drastic changes in weight at all... it is normal fluctuation.

EDIT: Today Rascal weighs 86 grams... but sometimes he weighs quite a bit less. Vet says not to freak out too much on what seems a like drastic change in weight but is just normal fluctuation.

 

[MichelleBeth]

Thank you so much to everyone that replied. I woke them both up at 6am this morning and although I don't know if it was all of it, Ellie did have a poo and I was able to weigh her/him after. Ellie weighed 92.3. Drastically lower than where they were a week ago (100).. but like others said, I'm hoping it's because my weigh times were all over the place so the 92.3 is probably Ellie's empty weight.

It still made me really nervous when I weighed Ellie again this afternoon at 4:30 (yeah I know, not accurate but I couldn't help it.) They only weighed 92.4... 0.1 gram more than what they weighed in the morning. There were poos on the cage floor though and some were fresh, so all of them together probably took 1-2 grams off the weight. After they ate in front of me though, it went up to 93.8.

The scale is also really sensitive. It's a bird scale (this one actually:
https://smile.amazon.com/ZIEIS-A42SS-NMTP-Accuracy-Capacity-Stainless/dp/B0040HQ5EO/) and while it's great I also think even a fan blowing can cause it to detect something's on it.

Tropical, thanks so much for saying what your Rascal weighs.. that sounds very similar to what Ellie fluctuated as.

Thank you also MonicaMc for the pellet tip. I had believed pellets should make up a larger portion of the diet because too many veggies gives Chester very watery droppings.. but I will try the sprouted seed idea. I also give them cooked organic quiona, a bit of chia seeds, crushed walnuts and a few times a week cooked egg. They get carrots, bell pepper or wheat grass everyday.

Maybe Ellie is just built more slender than Chester and Charlie. They are also still young. Both of my other tiels are/were quite beefy/muscular. They have free flight for 4 hours in a supervised room when I am home so they had a lot more exercise than my newest Ellie has so far. Ellie also was clipped when I got them.

I'll have to force myself to not latch onto this as something to micromanage and worry about. I'll just take into account what Ellie weighed this morning and compare that with what they weigh tomorrow at 6 in the morning after they poop.

Thank you again. I'll keep you all updated.

 

[Tropical]

Thank you so much to everyone that replied. I woke them both up at 6am this morning and although I don't know if it was all of it, Ellie did have a poo and I was able to weigh her/him after. Ellie weighed 92.3. Drastically lower than where they were a week ago (100).. but like others said, I'm hoping it's because my weigh times were all over the place so the 92.3 is probably Ellie's empty weight.

It still made me really nervous when I weighed Ellie again this afternoon at 4:30 (yeah I know, not accurate but I couldn't help it.) They only weighed 92.4... 0.1 gram more than what they weighed in the morning. There were poos on the cage floor though and some were fresh, so all of them together probably took 1-2 grams off the weight. After they ate in front of me though, it went up to 93.8.

The scale is also really sensitive. It's a bird scale (this one actually:
https://smile.amazon.com/ZIEIS-A42SS-NMTP-Accuracy-Capacity-Stainless/dp/B0040HQ5EO/) and while it's great I also think even a fan blowing can cause it to detect something's on it.

Tropical, thanks so much for saying what your Rascal weighs.. that sounds very similar to what Ellie fluctuated as.

Thank you also MonicaMc for the pellet tip. I had believed pellets should make up a larger portion of the diet because too many veggies gives Chester very watery droppings.. but I will try the sprouted seed idea. I also give them cooked organic quiona, a bit of chia seeds, crushed walnuts and a few times a week cooked egg. They get carrots, bell pepper or wheat grass everyday.

Maybe Ellie is just built more slender than Chester and Charlie. They are also still young. Both of my other tiels are/were quite beefy/muscular. They have free flight for 4 hours in a supervised room when I am home so they had a lot more exercise than my newest Ellie has so far. Ellie also was clipped when I got them.

I'll have to force myself to not latch onto this as something to micromanage and worry about. I'll just take into account what Ellie weighed this morning and compare that with what they weigh tomorrow at 6 in the morning after they poop.

Thank you again. I'll keep you all updated.

Don't worry... that weight is a perfectly normal and healthy weight for a tiel. When I got my new tiel "Coconut" he weighed 104 grams and in ONLY 3 short days he dropped down to 87 grams! (due to change in diet) I got freaked out! LOL (I've had Coconut now for 2 and a half months and of course he stopped dropping weight)... he's now averaging 94 grams

It's too funny that you said "I'll have to force myself to not latch onto this as something to micromanage and worry about" as that is EXACTLY what the vet told me followed by "you are worrying about a number on the scale that is a perfectly healthy weight for a cockatiel". Vet told me some people get too obsessed with the scale. When my tiel refuses to eat and is dropping CONTINUED significant weight and is unable to stop dropping the weight then I should be concerned she said... then she kicked me out and I got hit with an absurdly high bill. Welcome to the medical system.

EDIT: It's funny though because Coconut (my new tiel) LOVES the scale... he will jump on it and weigh himself every morning haha. He loves to see his reflection on the scale.

... but 92 grams is not drastically different form 100 grams... that is a very minor difference.

 

[MichelleBeth]

Don't worry... that weight is a perfectly normal and healthy weight for a tiel. When I got my new tiel "Coconut" he weighed 104 grams and in ONLY 3 short days he dropped down to 87 grams! (due to change in diet) I got freaked out! LOL (I've had Coconut now for 2 and a half months and of course he stopped dropping weight)... he's now averaging 94 grams

It's too funny that you said "I'll have to force myself to not latch onto this as something to micromanage and worry about" as that is EXACTLY what the vet told me followed by "you are worrying about a number on the scale that is a perfectly healthy weight for a cockatiel". Vet told me some people get too obsessed with the scale. When my tiel refuses to eat and is dropping CONTINUED significant weight and is unable to stop dropping the weight then I should be concerned she said... then she kicked me out and I got hit with an absurdly high bill. Welcome to the medical system.

EDIT: It's funny though because Coconut (my new tiel) LOVES the scale... he will jump on it and weigh himself every morning haha. He loves to see his reflection on the scale.

... but 92 grams is not drastically different form 100 grams... that is a very minor difference.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, the sad thing is I've had cockatiels for over 20 years.. it's just been the same dang bird so I never was shocked by some sudden change in weight or appearance. Well, I've had others, but none felt as 'bony' as Ellie does. But yeah, it is pretty silly because 92 is perfectly fine for a cockatiel.

I think it's just something easy to fixate on. Yes, I'm probably one of those 'scale people'.. it's too tempting to try and weigh them just to see if it went up a bit for your own personal comfort.

I've read on sites that anything more than 8% is cause for concern..which would be what dropping from 100 to 92 would be if I did my math right. One site was saying anything more than 1.5% but that's almost impossible unless you catch them when they have no water or food for absolute sure. I guess. Maybe they mean in the span of like.. two days or so.

I feel alarmed that her keel bone feels so sharp. I asked the vet straight up several times if she was underweight and they said no.. I even went and held her on her back and was like.. but look at her keel bone it looks so pointy! the Vet said that she could use a bit more muscle in her wing and chest area but didn't say she was actually underweight.. that's what I'm thinking is causing the keel bone to stick out more. She was clipped so she doesn't have the muscle mass built up from flying around.

It felt like she was getting a bit more around that area for a while.. but now it feels sharper again. :/ I know molting can cause weight loss and she should be around 6 months so starting cockatiel puberty (6-9ish months I believe)

I like your vet. I too have been hit by the big bills man. At least the yearly checkup isn't too bad. It's when anything hit the fans that things go through the roof.

Thanks again

 

[Tropical]

Don't worry... that weight is a perfectly normal and healthy weight for a tiel. When I got my new tiel "Coconut" he weighed 104 grams and in ONLY 3 short days he dropped down to 87 grams! (due to change in diet) I got freaked out! LOL (I've had Coconut now for 2 and a half months and of course he stopped dropping weight)... he's now averaging 94 grams

It's too funny that you said "I'll have to force myself to not latch onto this as something to micromanage and worry about" as that is EXACTLY what the vet told me followed by "you are worrying about a number on the scale that is a perfectly healthy weight for a cockatiel". Vet told me some people get too obsessed with the scale. When my tiel refuses to eat and is dropping CONTINUED significant weight and is unable to stop dropping the weight then I should be concerned she said... then she kicked me out and I got hit with an absurdly high bill. Welcome to the medical system.

EDIT: It's funny though because Coconut (my new tiel) LOVES the scale... he will jump on it and weigh himself every morning haha. He loves to see his reflection on the scale.

... but 92 grams is not drastically different form 100 grams... that is a very minor difference.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, the sad thing is I've had cockatiels for over 20 years.. it's just been the same dang bird so I never was shocked by some sudden change in weight or appearance. Well, I've had others, but none felt as 'bony' as Ellie does. But yeah, it is pretty silly because 92 is perfectly fine for a cockatiel.

I think it's just something easy to fixate on. Yes, I'm probably one of those 'scale people'.. it's too tempting to try and weigh them just to see if it went up a bit for your own personal comfort.

I've read on sites that anything more than 8% is cause for concern..which would be what dropping from 100 to 92 would be if I did my math right. One site was saying anything more than 1.5% but that's almost impossible unless you catch them when they have no water or food for absolute sure. I guess. Maybe they mean in the span of like.. two days or so.

I feel alarmed that her keel bone feels so sharp. I asked the vet straight up several times if she was underweight and they said no.. I even went and held her on her back and was like.. but look at her keel bone it looks so pointy! the Vet said that she could use a bit more muscle in her wing and chest area but didn't say she was actually underweight.. that's what I'm thinking is causing the keel bone to stick out more. She was clipped so she doesn't have the muscle mass built up from flying around.

It felt like she was getting a bit more around that area for a while.. but now it feels sharper again. :/ I know molting can cause weight loss and she should be around 6 months so starting cockatiel puberty (6-9ish months I believe)

I like your vet. I too have been hit by the big bills man. At least the yearly checkup isn't too bad. It's when anything hit the fans that things go through the roof.

Thanks again

Your tiel is not even close to being underweight at the weight she is. Some tiels are only 78 grams... that's what Rascal used to be until he as about a year old and he's really not much heavier now... he's averaging 80 or 83 grams in morning. The difference between 100 grams and 92 grams is ridiculously minor... there is a lot of misinformation on the internet... 1.5% loss should be of concern as that article claims? That is bologna! I would put down the scale and walk away from it slooooowly and take a deep breath your tiel's weight seems fine

PS: About 2 yrs ago the freakin avian vet hit me with a $5,100 bill and just recently last month (Coconut had an injury) and I got hit with a $1,000 bill for ONLY 24 hrs of treatment! (he lost 9 solid grams in 48 hrs hours from stress from being at the vet and the vet was trying to feed him ONLY nutriberries and NOTHING else which he has never eaten before in his life and hates!). He was stuck at clinic Sunday afternoon and overnight and then almost all next day. He was super scared/stressed out there and with food he HATES so he wasn't eating a darn thing. Vets are are as bad as attorneys they will rob you poor... not all of them... but at least 99.99999% of them tough to find a good one :22:

 

[MonicaMc]

Well, fruits and vegetables are "watery", so they can, and do, cause more urine. However, this *isn't* a bad thing, as long as everything else appears normal! In fact, some may believe that pellets are far too dry, and when you feed them to desert birds like cockatiels, it's the dryness that may cause kidney problems because they may not drink enough water to supplement how dry the pellets are. Water helps to flush the kidneys and keep them healthy.


This page has a great photo of the differences in poop based on diet!

Droppings -             International Cockatiel Resource                          Uniting the World!

 

[MichelleBeth]

Hi guys, I have a few minor updates. Thank you also for helping to assuage my anxiety over the weight thing. I'm trying to do what Tropical suggests and stop using it so often. It's too easy to obsess over if you're inclined to do something like that (I am).

I believe I now have both of their true empty weights. Oi.. I kept forgetting to get this number on the weekends. Ellie is 90.7 and Chester is 96.1. This was at 10:30 AM after both of them had their morning poops on the cage floor. I weighed them at 6 AM for consistency and both of them were 2 grams higher and there were no poos on the floor, so I don't think I'll be able to get their true empty weights on weekdays because my housemate wakes them up for me at around 10 because I leave for work at like 6:40. I'm going to weigh them each morn at 6 to keep things consistent.

For a while, Ellie was enthusiastically eating the Harrison's.. but it seems they're more apathetic towards it now. They still eat it, but not with as much zest it seems. I usually mix the Harrison's with half a nutriberry and a pinch of dried veggies. Chester gets the same, except he eats Zupreem. They get carrots or cooked green beans or bell pepper as a veggie and cooked quiona or oatmeal as well. I'm going to try the sprouted seed thing as well. They also get wheat grass.

They are both energetic, bright eyed, show no signs of illness. Chester is behaving exactly as he always does. They are both eating, although maybe the exuberance of Ellie's eating is a little down from before. Although, maybe that's just in my mind as I'm worried about their weight. Both of them eat in spurts rather than graze. (Usually in the mornings around 10 when they're uncovered my housemate says, and then around 5 and again around 8, an few hours before bedtime at 10.)

When I noticed Ellie seemed to be losing weight, I went back and added a higher seed ratio to the dry part of their food. They enjoy that more than the pellets (what else is new).

Tropical, I'm keeping your words your vet told you in my mind. This thing...

You are worrying about a number on the scale that is a perfectly healthy weight for a cockatiel. When my tiel refuses to eat and is dropping CONTINUED significant weight and is unable to stop dropping the weight then I should be concerned.

...because I tend to over-think, ruminate and latch onto something and worry over it until I drive the topic into the ground... Before digging it up and resurrecting it to think about it some more for good measure. Before this, I didn't have a scale for my birds. I know I should have, but it never occurred to me because none of them felt skinny. Before I had the scale, I was obsessed with how Ellie's keel bone felt. I still don't like how it feels but I saw a vet that was certified in avian medicine and they told me Ellie was fine and just needed to build up their wing muscles.. so I tell my brain that if the avian certified vet says it's fine.. it's fine!

Well, fruits and vegetables are "watery", so they can, and do, cause more urine. However, this *isn't* a bad thing, as long as everything else appears normal! In fact, some may believe that pellets are far too dry, and when you feed them to desert birds like cockatiels, it's the dryness that may cause kidney problems because they may not drink enough water to supplement how dry the pellets are. Water helps to flush the kidneys and keep them healthy.

This page has a great photo of the differences in poop based on diet!

Oh, thanks for that! They both seem to drink a lot, but I'll add more veggies into their diet. I ran into that site after searching for diagrams on keel bone weight.. They have a ton of useful info, even on sexing pied pearls. I can say both their droppings are normal. I did notice that sometimes Ellie's will get a dark green feces part but I know it's because they're chewing on toy that has dark green papery like material in color. The toy is made of all natural bird safe materials so I know it's not dangerous. (I take a long time picking out toys because of fear of zinc in the metal or cheap materials that could break off or have toxic chemicals.. as a result it takes me ages to pick out toys.. thank goodness I have a great bird shop that sells a ton of stuff within 20 mins of where I am).

And looking closer, that site is a different one from the one I found before. But it looks like it's run by the same person (Susanne Russo).

PS: About 2 yrs ago the freakin avian vet hit me with a $5,100 bill and just recently last month (Coconut had an injury) and I got hit with a $1,000 bill for ONLY 24 hrs of treatment! (he lost 9 solid grams in 48 hrs hours from stress from being at the vet and the vet was trying to feed him ONLY nutriberries and NOTHING else which he has never eaten before in his life and hates!). He was stuck at clinic Sunday afternoon and overnight and then almost all next day. He was super scared/stressed out there and with food he HATES so he wasn't eating a darn thing. Vets are are as bad as attorneys they will rob you poor... not all of them... but at least 99.99999% of them tough to find a good one :22:

Oh dear, that's terrible! I'm so glad Coconut was okay though. This was an avian vet too? There's a site I love called Cockatiel Cottage that has a page about putting together a bird emergency kit. One of the things they suggest is a bag of their food that you switch out with fresh every six months. All the stuff they suggest you put it in it seems like a lot.. but I think it's a great idea.

I had a 900 dollar bill after my tiel Dolly was seizing one morning. I rushed him to my vet and later found out 600 of that was for 4 hours in an oxygen tank. It was his time to go in the end..

It is really frustrating trying to find a good avian vet. The one I go to now is okay, but if there's an emergency I would take them to this one that has excellent reviews but they are like 60 miles from my place and an hour and a half one way. They also aren't open on weekends or during emergency hours... so that kind of negates the emergency thing unless it happens during nice convenient business hours..

Thanks again to all the nice people that replied and helped me chill out a bit with the whole weight thing. I'll probably be starting a new thread as well on advice for trimming cockatiel nails that are black. All the guys before this have or had light colored nails that made the quick super easy to see. I'm a bit worried about trimming Ellie's because I can't see the quick unless I shine a light up against the nail and that makes trying to trim them really really awkward.

Thanks again! I'll be back with updates.

 

[MichelleBeth]

Weight appears to have stabilized

Hi guys,
So I said i'd post an update and it's been about a week so I have enough data to chart again,

I took the advice and weighed at 6AM starting on August 20th so that's five straight days at least. I filtered all my data by time weighed and found a few days back in July when I also had weighed at 6am so I included those as well as reference points. (I love excel at times..) anyways..

Technically, it was between 6 and 6:30 am. I tried to wait until they had their morning movement to get a more accurate picture of things.

There's a weird dip on July 14, but they both follow the same pattern so I'm not paying it much concern.

Thank you again for the help!

 

[Tropical]

Re: Weight appears to have stabilized

Hi guys,
So I said i'd post an update and it's been about a week so I have enough data to chart again,

I took the advice and weighed at 6AM starting on August 20th so that's five straight days at least. I filtered all my data by time weighed and found a few days back in July when I also had weighed at 6am so I included those as well as reference points. (I love excel at times..) anyways..

Technically, it was between 6 and 6:30 am. I tried to wait until they had their morning movement to get a more accurate picture of things.

There's a weird dip on July 14, but they both follow the same pattern so I'm not paying it much concern.

Thank you again for the help!

That's great! The numbers you posted about initially are not major or drastic changes in weight... trust me I used to be the same and then more than one vet set me straight. I now weigh my tiels every couple of days or so.... and it's all good. Actually... Coconut weights himself all the time LOL He LOVES the scale (he likes to look at his reflection on it... he has the funniest look on his face when he does this) and when he jumps on the scale he turns it on by accident and basically weighs himself... all the time hehe

 

[Scott]

Greetings, MichelleBeth, thanks for joining ParrotForums!

Your thread exemplifies all the best of our community - terrific members eager to share their experiences, and learn something along the way! Monitoring our companion's weight is a simple and powerful diagnostic tool, provided the data points are consistent. Now yours are, and if you should notice a significant change, the vet will appreciate accurate data.