Luna & my dog - JRT

[TheNamesLuna]

Hi all

I need some advice from other Conure Parents.
I have my 7 year old JRT who I love dearly.
She has been alone with me for 18 months since I lost my old boy dog last year.
I got Luna about a month ago & I love her to bits.
But my JRT does not, and I am really trying to think of them both above my feelings.
I am feeling very torn - I want to keep Luna, but I am also very aware that my dog is very out of character. She has not been herself since Luna arrived and I was hoping it would ware off but it seems to be getting worse not better. Even other people are noticing it now.
How have other people coped with something like this?
What would you do if you were me?
Any comments will be listened to.
Thanks

 

[Laurasea]

Hello,! When I got my new quaker, one of my dogs, who had been fine with my GCCs for 4 years. Became extremely jelleous! She lunged and tried (to kill I think) to get to the quaker. This is a dog that was raised with 2 GCC since a puppy. So I headed tons of attention on her. Special attention before I got the parrots out, and after I put them back. I gave her a treat every time I held the parrots. She got over it. I sure hope you can make both happy, abd don't have to re-home the bird.

 

[StephenM]

In what way is she not herself? Is it just fixated on them (jrt are ratters after all so it may take a while for her to accept she’s not going to get them) or is actively depressed and upset by her presence? My jrt watched the conures for two days before giving up but he is an elderly dog used to birds, yours sounds like this is a whole new adventure

 

[T00tsyd]

I too would like more information as to how the dog is actually behaving. All terriers have a high chase instinct and anything that moves quickly will start them off. Moreover the dog will pick up on your 'fears' and therefore go into protection mode thus triggering chase/kill instincts.
Initially I would separate the two until you can get to work on your dog. He needs to learn what behaviour is expected around your bird so you need to go back to basics with him. If you were to instil calmness before introducing them again, perhaps giving the dog items that the bird has used/been on so he can gain the scent etc and then you can make sure he retains his calm attitude first. If he is generally excitable then there will be quite a lot of training involved but it is worth it and JRT's are very trainable.

I am currently going through a similar situation with my daughter's Labrador 6 month puppy who I 'babysit' 3 days a week and he is very intrigued by Syd, but I am working with him so that he learns to ignore the bird but expect it to be some months till before the job is done. I never have both out free at the same time though and probably never will.

 

[TheNamesLuna]

My Beth (dog) is scared of Luna. She is very nervous of her.
There has not been any negative interaction between them, she is just scared!
In fact there hasn’t been any interaction between them, Beth is just watching me with Luna,and refusing to come near.

I am disabled & home most of the time so I am trying to give Luna at least 4-5 hours a day interaction out of her cage. Not all in one go, but broken up through the day.

I thought it was jealousy to begin with, and so have been doing overkill on treats etc. Even been sharing food between them, as my Beth loves fruit, but even that hasn’t helped.

Beth was fine with my budgie I use to have when she was a puppy, & she has probably forgotten about that (I know a conure is very different to a budgie, but to a dog they are the same - a bird). She hasn’t had any bad experiences with a bird.

I am keeping the upstairs of my house for Beth, and Luna is downstairs only. Beth is with me all the time, sleeps in my room, follows me everywhere etc. Always been that way.
There is nothing wrong with her health wise, I have had her checked by the vet this week as I thought she maybe ill.

I don’t want to give Luna up but I need to think of Beth & try something so ideas needed.
Beth doesn’t need or deserve punishment as she has not done anything wrong. She is just scared.

 

[StephenM]

If it’s just a case of Beth not wanting to be in the room with Luna then that’s something that time may solve. So long as Beth is otherwise ok in terms of eating etc then it’s a bit early to be considering giving up Luna. I personally prefer my pets to be wary of each other, I don’t ever try to encourage interaction at all, even my cats and dogs were never encouraged to be friends, they could all relax in a room together but hairy heaps never blended! If they plonk themselves down near the bird cage they’re told to move on.

I’d back off trying to encourage her to accept the bird, leave her to her own devices let her watch from afar, if you’re constantly acting worried and concerned then Beth may be taking the cue from you.

 

[T00tsyd]

I agree with StephenM. If your dog is acting scared then any type of reward while in that state of mind only increases that behaviour so stop treating unless she is in a calm relaxed state. Perhaps when she just ignores the bird.

If your dog is licking her lips she is trying to calm herself down so it may be that she is very aware that she should steer clear of it. I would continue to keep them apart mostly and gradually introduce the dog to the room when the bird is caged. Ignore any fear completely and stay calm and relaxed yourself so that she follows your lead. Then just be patient and give it time. Your dog needs time to understand what is acceptable behaviour. Having said all that it may be more essential that you mind your bird. My GCC is more likely to attack than the other way around, particularly as it grows more confident with a doggy presence.

My own dog - passed just before last Christmas - was 100% obedient and it was Syd who was the problem.

 

[Jottlebot]

Is Beth ok with being left alone while you're with Luna? If she is then I don't see there is a problem, as said above I am also happy for my pets to be wary of each other as I have a cat, a dog, 2 snakes and 2 birds so there are all sorts of interesting predator-prey scenarios in this house!

I don't have any animals with any other animals lose in the same room at any time ever.

Your concern and worry is very understandable and says a lot about the sort of person you are. It sounds like Luna is pretty much not bothered by Beth so that's good. If Beth would rather not know Luna is in the house then go with that if you can. I wouldn't try and show Beth Luna is not dangerous, I would just let her ignore her and avoid her. In time she is likely to tolerate her.

 

[TheNamesLuna]

Im not trying to get Beth to interact with Luna. I know that’s a bad idea.
I only have a small house & 1room downstairs so we are all in the same room. I can’t shut Beth out as that would be punishment for doing nothing wrong.
Beth is just very nervous when Luna is around. I don’t want to leave Luna in her cage all the time as a result of this.
I do give Luna attention when Beth is in the garden but that’s never for long.
Beth is always with me. Sits on the sofa with me, etc. She is now very nervous when Luna is out the cage.

 

[Jottlebot]

Oh sorry, I thought you said you were keeping upstairs for Beth and downstairs for Luna. I understand that shutting Beth out of the downstairs room would seem like punishment. Could you move Luna upstairs then? So Beth will be able to lie on the sofa and use the garden (assuming it's downstairs access?) and she won't feel she's being punished, you'll just be upstairs without her?

I know what you mean about Beth feeling punished, but as you explain things at the moment she's scared a lot of the time, I'm not sure this is any better for her than learning to tolerate being away from you for a while?

 

[T00tsyd]

In that case there is not a lot you can actively do other than to ignore your dog's behaviour in the expectation that she will calm down when she sees that you too are calm. Any concerns you have will pass on to the dog - they have terrific empathy.

I would still be inclined to go back a step or six in an effort to get her more accustomed to the bird's presence without maybe sharing the same sofa etc. in some way. It's possible that the status quo won't be the way to go for the moment and some extra training maybe to a bed or cushion on the floor while you play bird time would work until your dog is comfortable.

 

[TheNamesLuna]

Hi All
I wanted to give an update to how Luna & Beth are getting on.

So much better!
Beth no longer runs away from Luna & is now even sitting with Luna on the sofa.
Luna has nibbled Beth's nails (Luna loves nails!) & Beth has let her.
I have not left them alone at all, and have been keeping a close eye on them together.
One thing that has helped is Luna feeding Beth!!! Luna keeps throwing fruit, veg, seeds and other nice things to Beth, who is more than happy to eat them!

Thanks for the advice folks, its all good now.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Welllll... the Queen of Paranoia raises her head...

I respectfully and urgently advise that a dog or cat (or any other potential "predator" animal NEVER be allowed near or on or aside a bird, even if closely supervised. There's just so much hard wiring there. A momentary snap could mean a horrible disaster. As a long time member (and now Moderator) I have heard so many heartbreaking stories about one beloved family pet attacking another. I have a dog... a small one, and she is never alone with the bird even when he's caged. Even a small dog can jump at a cage and knock it over, possibly injuring or even freeing and then attacking the bird. She is such a great little jumper that I think she might even be able to jump/climb on top of it. Cats are a similar concern. It takes only a small, single puncture from a claw to induce sepsis and likely death in a bird.

So that's my heartfelt plea. Thanks for reading.

And I'm so happy that your little darling JRT is feeling more at home!!!!! She's precious. My little mutt has some JRT in her!

 

[wrench13]

Sorry, but my experience with JRT's is that their natural instinct to hunt is almost impossible to train out of them. Ours knew dozens of tricks and commands, but could never get her to leave birds alone. SO the only time our parrot was out of his cage was when JRT was outside. The JRT would constantly jump up next to the cage to see the bird, and it drove our parrot crazy. Had to separate them completely.

Sorry to say but I think your going to have problems until one of them passes away or is adopted out.

 

[LaManuka]

I’m sure your dog is very well mannered and trained but sometimes instincts do get the better of them and it only takes a split second for something terrible to happen and you’d never forgive yourself. Please do try to keep them separate for everyone’s sake

 

[T00tsyd]

Just a simple warning. It may not be aggressive. Imagine this - both are on the sofa, little bird hops up to dog who is almost asleep. In surprise dog moves and bird ends up under a paw, or worse, under the body of beloved dog.

I have said before - my last dog was trained to within an inch of his life, he was 100% trustworthy, but I still didn't let them together. An accident will be just as bad as intent. If your dog gives your little one a friendly lick the saliva is fatal. Please don't take the risk.

 

[Laurasea]

I’m sure your dog is very well mannered and trained but sometimes instincts do get the better of them and it only takes a split second for something terrible to happen and you’d never forgive yourself. Please do try to keep them separate for everyone’s sake

I agree with caution! Especially if your dog has a bone or treats. My dogs grew up as puppies with the parrots, and I never have them play it touch each other. I think I mentioned a while back that jealousy caused my dog to lunge st my parrot, I caught her, but I have no doubt she mentioned to give a killing bite and she is a ****zu that had never Chase's s squirrel. I think the number one cause if death in parrots is death by another pet. But I'm glad your house is becoming more harmonious.

 

[EllenD]

I'm glad that things are improving between Beth and Luna...I was going to tell you that there is something about Green Cheek Conures, I swear there is. I have a female Australian Cattle Dog, Lola, who is just turning 5 now and who has been with me since she was about 10 weeks old. Cattle Dogs/Heelers are extremely loyal, one-person or one-family dogs, and extremely clingy, to the point that it's almost annoying...She's my second Cattle Dog, my first was also a female who lived with birds, and who lived to be just shy of 14. I got Lola first, at a time when I had no "pet" birds, only breeders, and then an elderly pug. After the pug passed-away, I stopped breeding birds and rehomed most of my breeders, and decided to again add a parrot to my family, as I hadn't had one since I was in college. So I brought home Duff, a female Cockatiel. No issues at all. Then I brought home Lita, a blue Quaker. No issues at all. Then I brought home Bowie, a male Yellow-Sided Green Cheek Conure...and then the extreme jealousy and the "scared" behavior from Lola started...Then I brought home Kane, a male Senegal parrot...no issues at all...Only with the Green Cheek!

Bowie has been a part of our family now for over 2 years, and still to this very day, Lola is not only obviously extremely jealous of him whenever he's on me, but she too acts as though she's afraid of Bowie, just as you describe Beth is of Luna (even if Bowie is just sitting on my shoulder minding his own business and Lola has her head on my lap getting scratched/petted, doesn't matter, she's still jealous of him)...Lola will back away from me when Bowie is with me, but she doesn't want to back away from me, so she does this thing where it's like she's "fighting with herself", that's the only way I can describe it. She tries to come to me, but she'll get near me and then her lips will curl-up in almost a snarl, she'll make a weird whimpering/whining sound, and then start backing away from me, but then usually she'll flop down on her back and start rolling around on the floor, as if she doesn't know whether to run away from Bowie or lay on my lap for attention. Though Lola hasn't ever snapped at Bowie or any of the other birds, or anyone for that matter, I certainly cannot allow them to be alone with each other...in fact, I don't even let Bowie go anywhere near her, even when I'm sitting right there with them...

****Before you posted your update about Beth improving and getting along better with Luna, I was going to tell you that you'd only had Luna in your home for a month, and that it was still a very new situation, and that it was just going to take time. A lot of the time in these types of situation, people "jump-the-gun" and make rash decisions that are unnecessary and that they'll regret, simply because they only want what is best and fair to both animals, when the reality of the situation is usually that it's just a very new situation and that it will resolve itself to a livable situation in time. Beth was the only other family member in your home and she had you all to herself since the day you brought her home. And dogs are creatures of habit, and they tend to get very upset with change, especially when that change is having to share both their home and their "person" with another family member (which can be another pet, or even another person, such as a new significant other, a new baby, etc.).

And that's the most-common situation where this occurs with a dog, when a couple has their first child. It's very common for a young couple to first get a puppy together as a couple, and that puppy/dog grows-up in the household with it's people alone, with no "competition" for attention or affection, and they typically have the run of the house, sleep in the bed of their people, go everywhere with their people, etc. And then suddenly, just one day out of nowhere, the couple bring home a new human baby that demands pretty much ALL of the people's time and attention, and the dog is lucky if they get a walk or a pet during the day. And in addition there are usually new rules in the house for the dog, such as certain rooms that are off-limits to them, they suddenly aren't going anywhere at all with their people because now they have to take the baby and they leave the dog at home alone, and the dog pretty much gets lost...And unfortunately, if you look at Craigslist at any given time, you're bound to find multiple ads in any location about a young-adult dog, usually between 2-4 years old, needing to be re-homed, due to "not getting along well with the new baby", or "we no longer have time for him after having our new baby", etc. I see it all the time, and honestly it makes me sad for everyone involved, but it also makes me angry...maybe that's me being selfish on the side of the dog, but it just doesn't seem right to me...Something else that really bothers me is that there are a few couples that I know that have done just this, re-homed a pet due to having a new baby, and in the case of each couple, they all ended-up going out and buying a new puppy within a year or two of re-homing their first dog, because "they wanted to get a puppy that their child can grow-up with"...Uhg.

The point that I'm trying to make (the long way round, lol) is that there is bound to be jealousy on the part of your dog due to your new bird, but it's still a very new situation, and as long as you can figure out a way for both of them to get the attention they need, it typically works itself out in time, once the dog realizes that the new bird is not going to "take their place" in the home. So you must have been doing a good job of proving this to Beth, because she's already started to come around.

****One point that needs to be stressed, even though things are improving over time, is that you need to make sure that you never become over-confident in Beth's behavior and attitude towards Luna, as the second you let your guard down might be the second that Beth decides to take a bite out of Luna. All dogs are "predators" of birds, and they all act on their natural instincts, sometimes without any control. And terriers are natural hunters, so you can never be too careful about making sure that Luna is never out in the house with Beth alone or unsupervised, as this likely would not end well.