Kermit VS Vet, Round 2

[IndySE]

It seems to be the season for vet visits in the conure section... I opted to take her in 4 months early. Lately I've been having a funny feeling about her health. Sometimes I worry she's not active enough, or the occasional bubble in her poop, and in light of the seizures in January I'm feeling extra paranoid. She even had an event a few days ago that was either a post-flight panic attack (from a misaligned feather-- she really freaks out over those) or a small seizure and I just need to put my mind at ease.

So in she'll go this Thursday. I can already feel her hatred. Fingers crossed I'm just anxious and paranoid and all is well ! My dream is for Kermit to live even half her 30 year lifespan. So far I'm 2/30 in.

 

[ChristaNL]

Fingers crossed here as well

 

[EllenD]

I'm so sorry, I didn't realize that Kermit was having actual "seizure" episodes. It's a very good idea to stay ahead of her Avian Vet visits for sure, and good for you for doing so....Is your vet either a Certified Avian Vet or an Avian Specialist Vet (not just an "Exotic's Vet" I hope)? Have you had full, routine blood-work done on her yet? If not, I highly suggest that you get it done ASAP, as very often the causes of seizure-activity in birds is either metabolic in nature, or due to a toxin, both of which normal blood-work will pick up. Plus, it would be a very good idea to have a set of baseline blood levels on Kermit for comparison each year (maybe every 6 months in Kermit's case, if you can afford to do it). You'll also get her Liver and Kidney functions, as well as be able to rule-out any infection, anemia, etc. that may also be the cause of her issues. And if her WBC's come back elevated (along with other levels) then that would warrant some cultures to try to find the infection. Long-term infections also cause everything you're describing. A regular, plain film x-ray isn't a bad idea either, just to completely rule-out any growths/masses/tumors on say her pituitary gland, her thyroid, etc., as well as any enlarged organs such as her liver, kidney, pancreas, etc., and any issues with her respiratory system, most importantly her air sacs, as birds have such a complex respiratory system that it can be responsible for tons of different medical problems, namely heavy breathing or what looks to be anxiety attacks, or more often a lack of oxygen due to pressure on their air sacs, which can commonly result in seizure-like activity. I've seen more than a few birds with enlarged livers or kidneys, or with a growth/mass/tumor, in which the enlarged organ or the growth had been putting pressure on one or more of the bird's air sacs, and this was causing the bird to have seizure-like activity, shortness of breath after little activity and even at rest, and what were described as being "anxiety" or "panic" attacks, all of which was due to the bird not getting enough oxygen and the bird panicking because they could not get enough "air". Enlarged livers in bird are one of the number one causes of air sac compression, with growths/tumors being second, and the number of different issues this can cause is tremendous. So a regular, plain film x-ray will either confirm or rule-out a ton of differential diagnoses that could be causing Kermit's issues....A regular x-ray can even tell you whether or not Kermit is suffering from certain nutritional deficiencies as well, based on her bone health.

I always tell people who have a bird with a "mystery" health issue, whether chronic or sporadic like Kermit's, that the two tests they need to get done immediately are a full blood-work panel (routine, no special blood tests until you get these results back) and a plain old full-body x-ray. Usually it's a combination of these two tests that solve the mystery.

There's no reason why Kermit can't live a full, healthy, and happy life that lasts for 30-40 years, not at all based on what you're describing. It's all going to depend upon finding an experienced CAV or Avian Specialist Vet, if you haven't already, and then, if necessary, you have to force the issue of doing the blood work and the x-ray to start things off. And these two tests aren't even expensive, at most a full exam, routine blood work, and an x-ray should cost $200 or less, and they will most-likely give you a really good idea of what is going on, if not an actual diagnosis....And if nothing else, they will tell the CAV what tests they need to do next.

And regardless, ALL BIRDS, and I emphasize ALL of them, even the "completely healthy" ones, should be getting a full wellness-exam that includes routine blood work and a Fecal Culture once every year anyway! I hate it when people say "No, I've never had my bird to a vet before because he's always been healthy"...They don't realize how counter-intuitive that way of thinking is...

***Uhg, end of mini-rant. Anyway, I hope that Kermit does really well at the vet, keep us updated, and again, if you haven't already had these simple, basic tests done yet, I highly, highly recommend that you get them done ASAP and start the process of figuring out what is going on with her. For whatever reason, and after years and years of experience I still can't tell you why, but it's extremely common, actually it's almost "the norm", for a pet parrot to have a long-time, chronic health problem, or a sporadic health problem that pops-up from time to time, and for them to have these issues for years and years, and NEVER have had even the most basic diagnostic testing done, such as routine blood-work and a regular x-ray...I can't tell you how many hundreds, yes hundreds of birds that have been surrendered to the Avian Rescue that I volunteer at, and that when I'm going over the surrender paperwork with the bird's owners they list a long-time health problem (I'm the medical liaison) such as sporadic seizure activity, fainting spells, labored breathing after little exertion, etc., and they write that the bird has had these health problems for years and years, sometimes for decades, and when I ask them what medical tests they've had done and what conditions have been ruled-out, they tell me that the bird has NEVER had a single x-ray, never had even the most basic blood work done, never had a Fecal Culture done, nothing. ****And the really disturbing thing is that most of the time the owners HAVE TAKEN the bird to a vet, even to a CAV or Avian Specialist Vet, sometimes several times or on a bi-yearly basis, and even though the vet was aware for years if not decades that the bird has been having these health issues for years and years, the vet still never ran a single diagnostic test! And when I start probing a little bit, they often also tell me that they had asked their Avian Vet several times if they should have blood work done, or an x-ray, sometimes the owners have even been willing to pay for really expensive testing like a CT Scan or an MRI, and every time they had asked about running tests to try to figure out what their bird's problem was, their Avian Vet told them something to the effect of "Well, the seizures haven't killed him, he's had several of them and he's had no lasting issues from them, so why put the bird through a needle-stick for blood work?" That's always what they tell me their vet has said to them, something to that effect, and not only is it untrue, as a simple, routine blood draw from a bird's neck takes 10 seconds and is actually less-stressful for them than a toenail clipping or a beak-filing is by far, it's irresponsible...It's almost like a lot of the vets that these people are taking their birds to are either afraid to handle birds or to do a blood draw on a bird, or to set a bird up for an x-ray, or they just don't want to bother....So I've come to the conclusion that you as the bird's owner must absolutely force the issue of at least doing the most basic diagnostic testing to figure out what in the world is going on with your bird...And if your vet STILL refuses to run blood work or take an x-ray to start the diagnostic process, then you need to find a new Avian Vet who will. Our birds can't advocate for themselves, so it's up to us to advocate for them.

 

[IndySE]

EllenD;;

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes, my avian vet did a basic blood test & gram stain last winter when I brought her in for seizures. They didn't find anything conclusive, but at the time I didn't have a baseline blood test either. Funny enough, shortly thereafter she did have an xray because we thought she might have eaten a staple. It was not a very clear one however, as the vet put in a plastic tube to do it so he wouldn't have to resort to drugs to incapacitate her since some birds react poorly to those. I'm not too sure if you could see general organ health from those well or if he even looked but I do have one. What I did learn is she's apparently eating sand off the couch because she had grit in her stomach tract (bad bird, bird is better supervised on the couch now).

Again, nothing conclusive and since then I've done research on various potential causes for mystery seizures that have otherwise no symptoms. I'm pretty sure they were proper "seizure" episodes, or at the very least neurological in nature. There was no convulsing, but there's no other explanation for why a bird would spread their wings and tail like that and loose all sense of balance.

I really like my vet a lot. He's very personable and always takes the time to explain things to me. His information always tends to line up with what my personal research has revealed.

 

[Laurasea]

I hope you find answers. And share them with us so we can be better informed in case we ever gave these issues.

 

[Laurasea]

A thought, any risks if s. Airborne toxin, you know the usual a perfume, cleaning products ect. .I had the unfortunate episode if a bit if plastic slip onto a burner a few years ago. I put on the stove air vent then went to rush the conures outside. They were both wobbly!!!! Loosing balance. I got them outside in seconds, and both survived. I know you don't have something acute like that, but maybe a trace of something that is the air.. anyway I hope your avian vet helps you!!

 

[IndySE]

Thank you all. I'm not sure I'll find answers, but I will at least know what it's not and covering the basics of infection/basic blood chemistry at least is a pretty hefty base.

Laura;; It's not a bad thought and one I've considered. We've recently had a lot of construction. I did my best to put her outside anytime things with fumes were used, but we also discovered some mold in our walls that no doubt was in the air once the walls were opened. It's something that a gram stain can at least rule out.

 

[Laurasea]

IndyS,
In the case of construction i would change out all AC/heat air filtes to the highest filtration, sbd change them twice a month for the next couple if months. Give the cage a through cleaning, top to bottom, each bar. If you don't already give your conure only bottle water, a switch if you were useing filtered, abd use the bottled for baths too. If you don't have a carbon monoxide detector, install one. I did and it kept briefly going off. So I had my house professionaly checked (after a second detector did the same) turns out my house is too air tight!!! Had to have a special outside air intake thing added. I felt so much better after that!! Lol didn't Know I was feeling increase c02 before, but sure felt better! And all birds need unfiltered sunlight not through a window. My avian vet recommend this for my rescue. So I started taking all my butds outside, in s travel cage never left one for a second, and move from sun to shade, watch out for mosquito and biting midges they carry diseases. Anyway it is utterly remarkable the luster of their featheres now!!! If your conure didn't come with a virus, congenital problem, or developed a bacterial it yeast issue. Well then 90 of captive pets issues are improper diet nutrition, or husbandry, environmental. Like with sunlight, I thought having my birds near a bright east window, that was capable of growing plants was good enough, until vet informed me otherwise. So after your vet rules out, and works to find your birds health issues. I definitely would fo some snooping for household issues. Especially with construction and mold. I hope your conure has the best long life possible!!

 

[IndySE]

Kermit back from the vet, tired, fluffy and angry.

I'm a little worried. Maybe a few hours after she had blood drawn, one of her nostrils got a little bloody. Not gushing, it honestly looks like she scratched her nose too hard. I'm guessing (hoping) the AC in the car dried out her nares and made her scratch it too much. I googled around and I'm a little concerned it's some horrific consequence of a blood draw. I'll keep an eye on her. I hope I wasn't excessive in my paranoia and caused her harm