Just laid an egg and not sitting, is this ok?

[hucker]

My African Grey girl just laid an egg (which may have been fertilised by the boy, although she did lay 2 blanks a few years ago) and she isn't sitting on it. She laid it on the floor of the lounge when she was out playing. I moved the egg into a nestbox in her aviary, then put her into the nestbox with it. She shuffled the egg about for a few seconds then came back out. 10 minutes later she went back into the nestbox of her own accord, moved the egg further back, then came back out. But for the last half hour she's not been in there. I can't find much information on the first days of eggs on Google. Only one webpage said anything - that she will wait until the 2nd egg is laid before sitting. Is this correct? Will the first one not die if it's not kept at body temperature? Also, how old does the egg have to be before I can candle it?

I have bred Greys (and conures and Amazons) years ago, but the other birds always knew what they were doing. This one doesn't seem to. Please give me some advice so I know if she's doing it right.

 

[Jolene7136]

I have no experience with breeding African Grey's but hens can generally lay a few eggs before starting to sit on any of them.

Does her abdomen look swollen like she may be preparing to lay another egg?

 

[hucker]

Thanks. She is actually now in the nestbox a fair bit, mainly adjusting the sawdust to her liking, but not doing much sitting yet, just looking after it. I'm fairly sure it's an infertile egg (the only boy in the aviary is in love with the other girl, although it's got a good weight to it which her previous infertile eggs didn't, they were just hollow - and she kicked them out of the nestbox, this one she's trying to look after), but either way I'll leave her to get on with it so I don't upset her. I've heard that if you take an infertile egg away they can keep on laying too many and deprive themselves of calcium. The three pairs I've bred from in the past (Greys, Conures, Amazons) have all been excellent parents - I hand reared the chicks only to make them tame, and only started doing so once their eyes opened (I figured that was the time they'd see me and think of humans as friendly, and it's easier to feed older chicks!) I did check her abdomen yesterday after she laid the first egg and I wasn't sure if it was swollen or not, but then aren't eggs 3 days apart so I wouldn't see the swelling yet?

 

[itzjbean]

I've only bred cockatiels but generally parrots do not sit on the eggs until the entire clutch is laid. For a grey that will be around 3 eggs. Until around that many are laid, if they are fertile, they will still be viable until the other eggs are laid, and then the development is jumpstarted when the hen sits and provides heat.

That or if she's never had experience hatching eggs she may not know what to do. This does happen and as a breeder, you just pull the eggs and incubate in an incubator. Then when they hatch you hand-feed until weaning and need all the supplies and such to do so. Brooder, digital thermometer, gram scale, syringes, cleaning supplies, formula, measuring utensils and dishes, etc.

 

[hucker]

Well I hope she knows what to do because I've tried hand-rearing before and before the age of their eyes opening, they're not easy to look after - feeding blind chicks that can't see you is quite difficult! She is paying more and more attention to the single egg and is on it about 50% of the time now. No sign of a bulge in her to indicate another egg.

 

[itzjbean]

Well I hope she knows what to do because I've tried hand-rearing before and before the age of their eyes opening, they're not easy to look after - feeding blind chicks that can't see you is quite difficult! She is paying more and more attention to the single egg and is on it about 50% of the time now. No sign of a bulge in her to indicate another egg.

Difficult, time consuming, stressful, you betcha. But as a breeder it is your responsibility to be prepared for that should the chick need you to intervene to save it from an inexperienced mother. She may be done laying, it's hard to say. You could wait to see what she does though no guarantees it will hatch.

 

[hucker]

I've tried handfeeding at a young age, I gave up and handed them back to the parents. They know best how to do it, it comes naturally! I could never get the really young blind ones to take much food. I guess feeding something half the size of your finger requires the dexterity of a watchmaker, and I don't have that!

Anyway this one does seem to know what she's doing, it was just me worrying for no reason. I didn't realise eggs could survive below body temperature for 3 days.

She's normally obsessive about me, she wants to spend 24 hours a day sat on my shoulder or flying around the house, but now, even though the aviary (it's inside my living room) door is wide open, she's inside almost all the time, and most of that time is in the box. It may be infertile (if it's true that Greys are monogamous, as the boy is attached to the other girl), but if it is fertile, it looks like she'll bring it up correctly.

 

[itzjbean]

I've tried handfeeding at a young age, I gave up and handed them back to the parents. They know best how to do it, it comes naturally! I could never get the really young blind ones to take much food. I guess feeding something half the size of your finger requires the dexterity of a watchmaker, and I don't have that!

Anyway this one does seem to know what she's doing, it was just me worrying for no reason. I didn't realise eggs could survive below body temperature for 3 days.

She's normally obsessive about me, she wants to spend 24 hours a day sat on my shoulder or flying around the house, but now, even though the aviary (it's inside my living room) door is wide open, she's inside almost all the time, and most of that time is in the box. It may be infertile (if it's true that Greys are monogamous, as the boy is attached to the other girl), but if it is fertile, it looks like she'll bring it up correctly.

I am glad the parents of the ones you handfed were able to take the babies back so easily. Sometimes, that's not always the case and in a circumstance like that, the babies may have perished. While difficult to get right, it should not be impossible. Usually breeders will use droppers and the formula (kept at 104-106 degrees) will be watered down some at that point in their development. What were to have happen if your babies parents did not take them back?

Breeding birds, while the miracle of life is amazing and beautiful, also will have heartbreak sometimes. Just this year I lost my female to liver and kidney failure WHILE she was sitting on eggs. I had my supplies all ready and took the eggs out of the nestbox and incubated them, but they did not survive (I later learned they were note fertile) but should they have hatched, I was all ready with my hand-feeding equipment and ready to take work off to help them survive, ready for the overnight feedings, but it was not meant to be.

Just because birds SHOULD know what to do, doesn't mean they do! Often times pet parrots lack the knowledge of what to do since they are around humans basically from 2 weeks old on. Sometimes they just don't know what to do.

 

[hucker]

All my birds are cuddly tame or semi tame, which makes it a lot easier when they breed. They don't mind me feeding the babies or removing eggs for inspection, in fact I show them the incubator so they can see they're being looked after. Some people say pet birds won't breed, well that's wrong, mine do!

Believe me I've tried handfeeding from birth, with the special baby parrot food to precisely the right temperature in a dropper. But they always just let it dribble back out. Is there some technique to making them swallow? Do you have to tilt their heads back? I didn't want to make them choke. Once they have their eyes open, they seem more capable of swallowing by themselves and I just drop in some food each time they open their beak and ask for more.

I wish parrots were as easy to breed as cats. My pet cats bring up kittens all by themselves, and they're naturally cuddly, I don't have to hand feed at all!

 

[EllenD]

All my birds are cuddly tame or semi tame, which makes it a lot easier when they breed. They don't mind me feeding the babies or removing eggs for inspection, in fact I show them the incubator so they can see they're being looked after. Some people say pet birds won't breed, well that's wrong, mine do!

Believe me I've tried handfeeding from birth, with the special baby parrot food to precisely the right temperature in a dropper. But they always just let it dribble back out. Is there some technique to making them swallow? Do you have to tilt their heads back? I didn't want to make them choke. Once they have their eyes open, they seem more capable of swallowing by themselves and I just drop in some food each time they open their beak and ask for more.

I wish parrots were as easy to breed as cats. My pet cats bring up kittens all by themselves, and they're naturally cuddly, I don't have to hand feed at all!

First of all, as Itzjbean already told you, ANY TIME you allow your birds to breed, any time, regardless of the situation or any past situations and how they went, you MUST be ready to take-over hand-feeding the babies, and be ready with either a proper Brooder or a homemade Brooder that you can control and monitor the temperature in, as they must be kept in a temperature-controlled environment until ALL of their feathers have come in...Not just because they'll get physically chilled, but more-importantly because if they are physically too-cold, they will not properly digest anything that they eat, their crops will not empty between feedings, and they usually develop yeast infections in their crops and throughout their GI Tracts. So even if you don't have a proper Brooder (not an egg-incubator, a Brooder for the baby chicks), then you must have something set-up and ready to go BEFORE THE EGGS HATCH!!!

Here's a hand-feeding Primer I wrote, it's a 2-part, or 2-post Primer
Have you candled the single egg that was laid yet to see if it's fertile? Very easy to do, just hold it up in front of a flashlight and look for ANY veins. If you see even one red vein, it's a fertile egg. If within a week or so after the egg is laid you candle it and you see not one vein, only a yolk, then it's not a fertile egg, and you should put it in the freezer overnight, then you can take it out and put it back in the nest box and allow her to lay on it until she realizes that it's not going to hatch, and she gets bored with it and leaves it alone. At that point you can pitch it. Leaving an infertile egg in the nest box, if it's the only egg that has been laid, will keep your Grey from laying more eggs. OR, you can actually buy/order fake Grey eggs online or in pet shops, and swap the real, infertile egg out for the fake one, and then freeze the real one overnight and pitch it, then leave the fake one in the nest box to keep her from laying anymore until she gets bored with it and stops laying on it, then remove it from the nest box, AND THEN REMOVE THE NEST BOX SO SHE STOPS LAYING ANYMORE EGGS...

If you don't have a proper Brooder, the you must get a homemade one ready ASAP if you candle the egg and it's fertile, and you decide to allow it to hatch, as if your Grey decides to not lay on the chick, or to kick the chick out of the nest box, or to start hurting the chick, or to not feed the chick, you'll absolutely need to remove it immediately and put it in a Brooder of some type that is around 95 degrees F until the chick develops all of it's down undercoat, and then that is around 80-85 degrees F after their complete down is grown in and until all of their outer feathers are grown in, basically until they are ready to go into their weaning cage.

You can set-up a pretty basic Brooder by finding an adequately-sized cardboard box for a Grey chick, and then a large heating pad that has adjustable heating levels, an ambient thermometer, like the kind you use to tell the temperature outside and that you can hang in the back-half or affix to the side in the back-half of the cardboard box. Then you place the back-half of the cardboard box on top of the heating pad, and allow the front half of the box to be off of the heating pad. Then you'll cover the back-half of the box with a dark sheet, towel, or blanket, and this will create a warm zone and a cool zone for the chick to choose, along with providing the warm zone to be dark, as is necessary for young chicks. Then decide what bedding you want to use and put it in the bottom of the box, at least an inch of it. This not only helps with heat and comfort, but MOST IMPORTANTLY IT PREVENTS THE CHICK FROM DEVELOPING SPLAYED-LEGS...Get the Brooder to 95 degrees F in the back-half as read on the ambient thermometer, and mark down what temperature setting you have the heating pad on to get there, then turn it off. Then your emergency Brooder is all ready to go if necessary. THIS MUST BE DONE ANY TIME YOU ARE GOING TO ALLOW A FERTILE EGG TO HATCH, AND MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE FERTILE EGG IS SET TO HATCH SO YOU'RE READY IF YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE CHICK FROM THE NEST BOX...Just because your Grey took care of chicks during her prior clutch or clutches means NOTHING AT ALL.

BE READY, BE RESPONSIBLE, BE TOTALLY PREPARED BEFORE ANY EGG HATCHES. LONG BEFORE.

As far as being able to hand-feed/hand-raise a parrot chick, it's something that takes practice and is learned easiest from watching an experienced breeder/mentor, HOWEVER, once again, just like having a Brooder set-up and ready to go BEFORE any eggs hatch, IF YOU ARE GOING TO ALLOW ANY FERTILE EGGS TO HATCH, YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST BE PREPARED TO TAKE OVER HAND-FEEDING ANY CHICKS IN THE EVENT THAT YOUR GREY, FOR WHATEVER OF THE MANY REASONS SHE DECIDES NOT TO FEED THEM OR TO KICK THEM OUT OF THE BOX, OR STARTS HURTING THEM. THIS ISN'T OPTIONAL, YOU MUST AT LEAST HAVE ALL THE NECESSARY SUPPLIES AND BE READY TO GO!

You'll need to have a container of parrot hand-feeding formula on-hand, which you can buy at any Petco or Petsmart, and most independent pet shops that sell parrot supplies. Kaytee Exact hand-feeding formula is the most commonly sold formula, and does just fine. So always have a container of this on-hand BEFORE any eggs are allowed to hatch.

In addition to having the hand-feeding formula on-hand BEFORE any eggs hatch, you also must have a candy or cooking thermometer on-hand, which can be purchased for under $10 at any Walmart. You want one that has a probe that you can place into the formula, usually a metal rod-like probe. Digital cooking thermometers are best, I just recently bought a new one at Walmart for $9.97, it's a Taylor brand, is digital, and has a metal probe that folds-out. The formula that you feed a baby chick must be between 110 degrees F and 104 degrees F, THIS IS NOT OPTIONAL!!! ANY HOTTER THAN 110 DEGREES F AND YOU CAN BURN THE CHICK'S CROP AND CAUSE INFECTIONS, AND COLDER THAN 104 DEGREES F AND THE CHICK WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PROPERLY DIGEST THE FORMULA, THEIR CROPS WILL NOT EMPTY, AND THEY WILL DEVELOP FUNGAL (YEAST) INFECTIONS IN THEIR CROPS AND THROUGHOUT THEIR GI TRACTS...

****Another side-effect of feeding a chick hand-feeding formula that is not the correct temperature is that the chicks will literally refuse the formula and not eat it, often spitting it out or allowing it to dribble out of their mouths and down their chests (usually in this situation the formula is under 104 degrees F and is too cold). So this could have been one of your issues that was causing your chicks to not eat the formula properly...Either way, you must have a proper cooking thermometer and it must be in the bowl of formula the entire time you are feeding the chicks. Instead of reheating the formula constantly in the microwave, which can create "hot spots/pockets" in the formula that will burn the chick's, it's best to heat the water/unflavored Pedialyte in the microwave in a Pyrex measuring cup, and then adding the hot liquid to the hand-feeding formula. Then USING A WHISK, which is the best thing to use to mix the formula fully, vigorously mix the formula and then place the cooking thermometer in it.

 

[EllenD]

Part 2 of the Hand-Feeding Primer

It is also a very good idea if you are feeding more than one or two chicks, to put the bowl of formula (best if that bowl is ceramic, like a little ceramic crock) into a larger bowl of regular hot water, to act like a hot water bath, that way the formula will not cool below 104 degrees F while you're feeding the chicks, and you'll have to keep reheating it throughout the feeding session. If you are only feeding one or two chicks then this shouldn't be necessary, but any more and you'll want to do the hot water bath.

***The other issue that often prevents chicks from eating the formula is that you mix the formula up too thick. As a rule, the younger the chick, the thinner you want the formula to be. I find that if you mix the formula up to the point that it's runny, but not at all "watery", then you're good. They don't like it to be really thick, or paste-like, or even as thick as pudding or yogurt. It must be liquid/runny enough to drip in droplets, but should not be watery-looking, it must not be see-through. So like watery yogurt is a good description. As they get older you can make the formula a bit thicker as time goes on, but never "paste-like" as I've heard it described here before, as in "I mixed the formula up into a paste"...no good at all, this will not only cause dehydration but can cause slow-crop and even crop-stasis, which will require the addition of Apple Cider Vinegar and possibly Digestive Enzymes to the formula...

****As far as your hand-feeding technique, no, it doesn't require extreme dexterity, lol, but it does require a specific technique and routine that you follow each time you feed the chick. I find that using a glass eye-dropper when I first pull my chicks is easiest, as their beaks are very small, and a lot of hand-feeding syringes or luer-slip syringes have a large tip. So I typically start-out using a regular old, straight eye-dropper for the first 2 weeks, and then switch over to a regular hand-feeding syringe, both of which you can buy at any Walmart cheaply. Now for an African Grey chick, a hand-feeding syringe should work just fine right from the start, as they are much larger even at 2 weeks old than the smaller parrots I used to breed.

***Here's what you have to do in a nutshell, and if you follow this procedure every time you put the syringe in a chick's mouth, the hand-feeding process should be easy and elicit a strong feeding-response from the chick every time (assuming that the formula is within the correct temperature range, is not too thick, and that the chick's crop is empty or very near empty and they are ready for another feeding), AND you should not EVER have to worry about Aspirating any formula into the chick's lungs, which is the main reason you must follow this method...

-Place the chick down on a clean paper towel directly in front of you, with the chick facing you, so that "your right" side is actually the chick's "left side". This directional instruction is crucial, as the entrance hole to the chick's crop is on the back of the chick's throat, on the "chick's right side", meaning "your left side" if the chick is in front of you and facing you.
-Always approach the chick's beak with the very tip of the syringe/eye-dropper entering on the chick's left side of their beak, or your right side.
-You ALWAYS must aim the tip of the syringe OVER THE CHICK'S TONGUE, AND ALWAYS GO ACROSS THE CHICK'S MOUTH AT A DIAGONAL, towards the right side of the back of the chick's throat, towards the crop entrance.
***So essentially, if the chick is directly in front of you and facing you, and you have the syringe in your right hand, you're going to insert the tip of the syringe or eyedropper into the left side of the chick's beak (your right side), and aim it at a diagonal across the chicks mouth, OVER IT'S TONGUE, and towards the right side of the chick's throat (towards your left side). SO WHILE YOUR ARE STARTING FROM THE CHICK'S LEFT SIDE AND GOING AT A DIAGONAL TOWARDS IT'S RIGHT SIDE...you are starting from your right side, the same side the syringe is in your hand, and going toward your left side...IF YOU CAN REMEMBER THIS DIRECTIONAL INSTRUCTION, AND TO ALWAYS GO OVER THE TONGUE AND NEVER UNDER IT, THEN YOU'RE GOOD TO GO...
****Once you have the tip of the syringe/eyedropper inserted into the left side of the chick's beak and pointed at a diagonal towards the chick's right side of the back of it's throat, then gently push a little, tiny drop of formula into it's mouth, which should start the chick's Feeding-Response, if the chick doesn't just start it's Feeding-Response the second the tip is inserted into it's mouth, which they often do. The Feeding-Response is simply the chick rapidly moving it's head at a certain rhythm, the same rhythm that it is swallowing. Once the chick starts it's Feeding-Response, you then start pushing the formula into the chick's mouth AT THE SAME SPEED/RHYTHM THAT THE CHICK IS MAKING IT'S FEEDING-RESPONSE. This is difficult to explain in-writing, but you'll understand what I mean immediately once it starts. Whenever the chick stops it's Feeding-Response, you stop pushing in formula, so that you don't Aspirate any formula down it's Trachea. If you simply follow the chick's lead, you should never have any Aspiration issues. It's very common for the chick's to stop in the middle of you pushing formula into their mouth, usually they stop because they need to swallow what's already inside their mouth/beak, or they need to stop and take a breath, or they are suddenly feeling full and need a bit of a break. Just always follow the lead of the chick, never try to lead the chick yourself, and you'll be fine. Once you do this several times it becomes easier and easier, and once the chick eats from the syringe several times they get the hang of what you are doing as well...As most breeders pull chicks between 2 and 3 weeks old and that's it, the chick has already been fed by their mother or father for 2 to 3 weeks, so it's different for them too.

Don't rely on a certain amount of formula, as stated by the packaging of the formula, to be correct. YOU ALWAYS NEED TO FEEL THE CHICK'S CROP TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE CHICK HAS EATEN ENOUGH OR STILL NEEDS MORE FORMULA. YOU CANNOT RELY UPON THE CHICK TO STOP EATING AT THE CORRECT TIME, YOU MUST FEEL IT'S CROP THROUGHOUT THE FEEDING SESSION TO DETECT WHEN THEY ARE FULL. Their crop should look very large and rounded, like a big balloon, and it should feel tight like a balloon, but still have just a little bit of give. Once you get the chick's crop to the point that it looks large and rounded, and feels like a tight balloon with just a little bit of give left in it, the chick is full. Always wipe any wet formula off of the chicks beak, mouth, face, head, crop/chest, belly, legs, wings, feet, etc., especially off of any feathers it gets on, as once it dries in their feathers it will start to "cake" and basically has to literally grow-out, as you will not be able to wash it out/off once it is dried in their feathers. So always wipe them down with a wet paper towel once they're done eating.
-Make sure you are feeding the chick(s) several times a day, based on their age in weeks. There will be a chart on the hand-feeding formula packaging to follow...JUST MAKE SURE BEFORE YOU FEED A CHICK THAT IT'S CROP IS EITHER EMPTY OR VERY NEAR EMPTY FROM IT'S LAST FEEDING!!! It's okay if the crop is not totally empty between feeding during the day, usually the only time their crops totally empty is once they are old enough to go overnight without a feeding for 6-8 hours (around 4 weeks old), so it's okay if there is a bit of formula left in their crop between daytime feedings. However, never feed a chick more formula if their crop is not ALMOST EMPTY. This will result in spoiled formula laying inside their crops, which will cause a host of health issues, including fungal and/or bacterial infections.

Hopefully this will help you prepare if and when you decide to allow any fertile eggs to hatch. Always be ready, and never assume that it will all just be okay...

As Itzjbean pointed out to you, she lost her hen this past year...So you must ask yourself, "What will I do if my Grey hen dies after a chick has already hatched?"...And yes, this can happen and often does happen from any number of issues, from sudden and unexpected or undetected egg-binding (just because you don't feel an egg in her belly doesn't mean that one isn't there, or that one hasn't actually ruptured inside of her causing Peritonitis), to Bacterial and/or Fungal infections, to being attacked by the male parrot, etc. Happens all the time. So be prepared BEFOREHAND!

 

[hucker]

Oh for crying out loud. I don't listen to lectures, especially when someone starts yelling at me in capital letters. I have told you already, I cannot hand rear chicks until their eyes open. I've tried it and I'm not able to. It's simply a skill I do not have. Birds know what they're doing, they keep them until they're old enough. I hand rear when the eyes are open and that's enough to make them cuddly tame. I've brought up about 20 babies and never had to intervene.

I did candle the egg and it appeared evenly coloured and opaque. I assumed perhaps the veins were not visible, or not easily visible, for a while. I've read on websites you need to wait for 3 days of her sitting.

 

[EllenD]

Not to flood your post, but something else that I picked-out while reading your posts is that you have an "Aviary" inside your house, and that it contains multiple African Greys inside it. Something that is extremely worrisome and that I do have personal experience with, unfortunately, is what can and does USUALLY happen from what is called "COMMUNITY BREEDING", which means that you allow a pair of birds to breed inside of a cage/aviary where the pair is not alone, but is living with at least one other bird. You mentioned that you didn't know whether or not your female Grey who laid the egg was mating with the male or not, because the male "is bonded to the other female in the aviary"...So I take this to mean that you have at least 3 African Greys in this one Aviary, living together? And that there are at least 2 females and one male? IS THIS CORRECT?

If you have more than 2 Greys living inside the same cage/aviary and at least 2 of them are bonded and mating/breeding, this can create a HUGE PROBLEM and can and often does end in tragedy and horrible, awful, violent, gory endings. And it doesn't matter whether we are talking about 2 males and one female or 2 females and one male, any way you put it, when you allow a bonded-pair of parrots to breed inside an enclosed environment that also includes at least one other parrot, and they are ALL able to access the nest box or boxes, this is very, very bad idea. What usually happens in this situation, whether or not the pair has eggs or the eggs hatch and they have chicks, is that one of the parrots that is not a part of the bonded pair, USUALLY THIS IS A FEMALE PARROT THAT IS NOT A PART OF THE BONDED PAIR, out of jealousy, or hormonal rage, whatever the reason, will at some point try to gain access to the nest box where the eggs or the chicks are, and of course this results in the mother hen of the eggs/chicks, and sometimes also the father of the eggs/chicks as well, but always the mother, defending her eggs/chicks, and she will do this TO THE DEATH. Usually the result of Community-Breeding when a tragedy like this happens is either 1 or 2 dead or seriously injured females, along with dead or seriously injured eggs/chicks. Sometimes the male is involved as well, or if there are even more than 3 parrots in the aviary/cage then it can involve many adult parrots. But it's typically the mother of the eggs/chicks and one other female that are directly involved and end-up dead or very badly hurt. This is why Community-Breeding is very much frowned upon, considered inhumane, and is widely discouraged.

If you have a bonded-pair of Greys, a male and a female, as you seem to indicate that you do (but not one that involves the female who laid the egg, so that egg is most-likely not fertile anyway, as most parrots do not just mate, they first must bond with another parrot of the opposite sex before they actually mate, making it highly unlikely that the egg laid by the outsider-hen is in-fact fertile), and that bonded-pair is actively mating, then I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you put the bonded-pair that is mating into their own, separate cage, and if you want them to actually breed baby birds then you put a nest box for just them in this cage that is totally separate from any other Greys/parrots.

Just to give you an idea of what I'm talking about, I had 2 bonded-pairs of English Budgies in a HUGE INDOOR AVIARY in the lower floor of my house, both of which were breeding at the time. I had bred them this way many times before, for at least 3 or 4 years prior, with not a single issue. There were 4 nest boxes in the aviary for the 2 pairs to choose from, and everything was fine...I came home from work one day to find both of my hens dead, one laying on the bottom of the aviary below her nest box, and the other dead inside her nest box. In the nest box with the dead hen laying on the floor below it were 2 dead babies that were almost 2 weeks old and ready to be pulled by me to hand-raise, one was completely decapitated with it's head laying in a corner of the nest box, the other with it's stomach ripped open. In the other nest box lay my other hen, dead and ripped apart limb from limb, but all 3 of her babies were fine, laying there beside her dead and dismembered body. I have no idea exactly what happened, but someone decided to attack the babies, or to try to anyway, and of course the mothers are going to die trying to defend their chicks. It was a terrible sight to see, and upon doing some online research I found that this happens in over 70% of community breeding situations, with most large bird-mills housing hundreds if not thousands of parrots together in large warehouses and/or sheds, with dozens and dozens of nest boxes lining the walls, and these type of mass-breeding operations losing both parents and chicks on a daily basis. However, they breed in such large quantities and sell so many babies that they don't care if they lose breeders or chicks, they just come in once a day, clean up the bodies, feed the rest, and move on. But it doesn't matter whether you're housing 3 parrots or 300 parrots together who are breeding, if you have a bonded-pair that is actively mating they need to be housed ALONE!

It's just not worth risking the lives of your adult Greys. Even if this only happened in 1% of Community-Breeding situations, that's 1% too much risk for me and my flock, and the fact is that the percentage is 70x higher than 1%...

 

[hucker]

I think the chances of that are pretty remote for me. The Greys get on well. In fact I often hear people refer to a "flock or community of Greys" in their aviaries - they naturally live together. Perhaps in a confined space or with a shortage of boxes there could be a problem, but I have enough boxes to stop fighting and they all love each other. I think it would be more cruel to seperate them as they all get on well as a group. The only time I've ever had fighting is when I've had different sizes of bird in one room. But Greys and Blue fronted Amazons are fine together.

 

[EllenD]

It wasn't a lecture "for crying out loud", it's called a "Primer" which gives complete, step by step instructions and information on a topic just in case you must hand-feed a chick...Sorry for taking the time to try to help you out...

If you "can't" hand-feed a chick, then you need to freeze all laid eggs immediately...

And if you think that you won't have that problem with Community Breeding in your aviary, for whatever reason, then you know secrets that no other parrot-owner/breeder does...I have been breeding and hand-raising parrots for over 20 years and I grew-up in a house with a family that did the same for decades, and it happened to me suddenly, out of nowhere, with 2 bonded pairs of Budgies that I had bred that way multiple times.

You need to think about how much you are willing to risk the lives of your Greys on how much you "don't think that will happen to you"...I hope for your sake and the sake of your parrots that you never suddenly have this happen to you, as it's a horrible sight to see and a terribly guilty feeling you'll carry around, knowing that you knew it was a possibility, I speak from experience..

 

[hucker]

Ok fine, but you just sounded angry the way you were using capital letters and telling me I "must" do things. We all bring up our birds differently, there's no "must" about it. I do what I can to help them, but I can't do what I'm not skilled enough to do! My birds would have brought their chicks up fine in the wild, so they'll do at least as well here, and I'll nudge them in the right direction where possible. But I cannot and will not try to hand rear a newborn chick. Feeding something half the size of my finger that can't see what I'm feeding it is a skill I don't have. As for the community breeding, I know several breeders of cockatiels, lovebirds, Greys, Amazons, etc, and they all community breed. The birds are happier with more friends to play with. My cats are the same, I've even got kittens feeding off whichever mother is closest, they share!

 

[SailBoat]

This Thread had been moderated and as a result several Posts have be cut as they had moved from a constructive discussion and strayed away from the topic, sadly moved into the realm of an argument spinning wildly away from that original discussion.

Parrot Forums is first and foremost about the Proper Caring of our beloved Parrots! As the knowledge base expands there will be changes as that knowledge provides a better, safer, healthier existence for our feathered companions. To assure that our interaction support this core belief, we request that going forward, all Posts be confined to the topic(s) at hand and discussed respectfully.

Steven (SailBoat, member, Mod Team)

 

[SailBoat]

With this Post, I am bumping this Thread back up onto the Board.

 

[Jolene7136]

Thank you for the great write up and returning this post. I am about to pull my green cheek conure babies out of the nest tomorrow and appreciate the refresher. I always find it helpful to read and reread to make sure I am not forgetting anything.