just being a caique?

[mrs.pants]

so our lil 5 month old troublemaker does this thing - roughly since we got him - that i'm curious about. i'm less familiar with caiques than other birds so its been an interesting adventure and i'd like to hear from other parronts if this is normal.

so anytime he's super excited or super spooked he does this thing where he'll suddenly lunge away flapping like crazy!

like he'll be playing with his favorite shreddy toy and then suddenly bolt in another direction and flap before jumping back on it like nothing happened.

or if he’s startled - loud noise, sudden lights etc - or if he's just unhappy about a situation (ie not using the perch he's used to for morning poops) he'll do the same thing: lunge suddenly away and flap. sometimes he'll give a few huffs afterwards.

only once has he ever tried to actually take off - from the top of his cage - but every other time he just grips whatever he's on and does it.

curious how normal this is? i mean to me he just seems like a spaz lol and i know caiques are notorious clowns but wanted to check cuz I’m not familiar with this behavior.

 

[clark_conure]

totally normal

/end thread


Sorry thats any species basic behavior. Fight or flight, BUT trusts in parront or toy or whatever....he's divided; but decides safer with you, toy, area etc....so it's a good thing.

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

I’ve never seen any of my birds flap in place unless they lose their balance.

Is your caique clipped? He could be trying to fly.

I don’t have a caique, so I don’t know their normal behavior.

 

[mrs.pants]

thanks for the responses! i figured it was fight/flight or him just being super excited and energetic, i'd just never expected it to be so absolutely abrupt. like he will literally lunge like someone just pushed him.

poor dude ended up getting spooked tonight because he thought his foot was stuck while he was hanging upside down and i had to rescue him. touched his foot to make sure he was fine and he flung himself away but fortunately he can glide so he landed without issue. after that me and mr pants passed him between us and gave him some of his favorite fruit and he seemed fine (fine enough to steal my glass of water right from under my mouth lol). perching fine and letting me touch him so i think he's just an easily spooked bird. plus we've only had him for a month and he's just a baby.

his wings are clipped and he does indeed try to fly regardless but he's figuring out that he can't really go far. he also holds onto his perch and flaps when we give him baths so i think its somewhat normal for them.

 

[Laurasea]

If he never got to fledge before he was clipped ,( which is very detrimental in my opinion) then he has a strong drive to excerise his wings as training for flight. My baby was clipped before he was fledged and he was obsessed with flapping his wings , I think hardwired instinct. Thankfully after a long three months he got his molted and can now fly. I hope you let your guy learn to fly once this clip is shed. It is normal to do some wing flaps excerise, but I think this is because he is young and hadn't mastered flying before clipped??

 

[mrs.pants]

i'm not 100% sure since we got him from a pet store and, having worked at a petstore myself, associates aren't given much if any information on the breeders besides "they are hand raised". my guess is he has always been clipped.

personally we are not a fan of letting him fly on his own and decided we'd rather keep him clipped (a friend who used to raise birds also encouraged this). its more of a safety issue for us. we'd rather not risk him escaping or flying into anything dangerous. where we live there are hawks, bears, literally a rogue band of cats lol, and woods woods woods. plus i've def heard horror stories of birds flying into fans from friends or smacking right into windows (he is obsessed with windows already) and seriously injuring themselves. for us its not worth the risk :\

 

[Laurasea]

Mrs pants everything you say has value and safety is very important, abd clipping is your choice. But it's important to the longterm health both physical and mental development and confidence of the bird to learn to fly and fledge. You could clip the feathers again after he had learned. If you do some if the old googling you can read people better than me explain the value of this. It helps their breast muscles development as well , really a strong psychologically components. So I value your choice and right to choose, but ask that you do a bit of research before making your final choice.

 

[Zettobi]

My sun conure flaps in place after landing when she's super excited. She'll suddenly bolt (fly) around the room then land on something or someone and keeps on flapping as if she's flying even though she landed! Lots of slaps in the face with her wings when she does it on my shoulder haha. I believe your caique could be letting out excess energy out of excitement or an attempt to calm down (tire themselves out so they can relax a little). Seems like normal behaviour to me.

As for wing clipping, a very personal choice but please be aware that clipped birds aren't completely useless at flying and in the right circumstances (like a gust of wind) they can take flight so just be careful still about making sure all windows and doors are closed when your caique is out~

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

Please do allow your bird to regrow his flight feathers and at least learn to fly. Learning to fly is very important for their development, and flight is by far the best exercise a bird can get. Flying is what birds are designed to do! Please do some research before deciding to keep your bird clipped. Birds that are allowed to fly are overall happier and healthier.

Wing clipping does not guarantee safety. They can still escape outdoors if a gust of wind carries them into a tree. Most will agree here to never take a bird outside without a harness. As for your concern about your caique flying into things, my birds never fly into things and are very well coordinated fliers. Once they learn, they start building up confidence and learn to fly with even more precision.

 

[mrs.pants]

yeah he's definitely caught us in the face with a few slaps lol which i dont mind at all

i'm definitely thankful for the advice! we waffled about wing clipping for a while before ultimately deciding to keep them clipped for now. i know its a very controversial issue and definitely appreciate the passion and intentions behind both sides and can see pros and cons of both based on information i've read & advice form others.

oooh yes windows/door are definitely closed when he's around lol! (windows are also closed because our landlord has fixed nothing so all the screens are broken and bugs would always get in :\...can't wait to move!)

 

[Laurasea]

It's the never having the chance to fledge , that has me so passionate, after learning and making this developmental step. Well then I'm very supportive of choice to clip. You could have signs at door parrot learning to fly, tape ceiling fan switches off, teach windows to the bird. The feathers aren't going to grow back overnight so you have time to read up on fledglings as a developmental milestone. To me this is different than the just to clip for not clip contraversy. I won't bug you again I love that we have a young caique to follow the journey with. I have done envey of your beautiful new friend!

 

[mrs.pants]

ooh youre not bugging me at all! trust me i definitely understand and always welcome hearing what people have to say and being given information on these topics. but i also appreciate your support and respect on the issue :3

i could also very well be wrong about when he was clipped, which i hope i am. and honestly its definitely something that could change when we are in a safer more stable environment and when we've bonded more with our lil boi. he's literally our child and we want him to be safe and happy. (those are good suggestions btw! i read about the tape method for teaching windows! and another article that focused on teaching them "fly away" and "fly to me" commands which was really interesting. we actually started working on a recall the other day lol)

also thank you for the compliments on his behalf! I shall tell him someone thinks he's beautiful in the morning when he wakes up lol

 

[Laurasea]

Ok great then read Sailboat post!
Re-Fledging an Adult Parrot
Author: EB Cravens – 2006
Provided by: Steven (SailBoat) with permission of the Author.


Re-fledging: The How’s and Why’s of Teaching Adult Parrots to Fly

For years in the World of Parrot keeping, there have been numerous unimaginative Parrot Breeders who insisted upon clipping the wings of their new Fledgling Parrots before the Parrots could develop true flight skills. Many of us own or have owned such Psittacines; and it is not difficult to observe the affects of such naïve treatment. Mentally and physically, these Parrots are forced to live under a handicap, some for the whole of their lives.

The re-fledging of adult Parrots is desirable in order that they may recoup at least a portion of the confidence, savvy, and athleticism denied them by a premature wing trim. Parrots that have satisfactory flying skill are safer, fitter, and happier than their untrained, grounded cohorts. Here then, is how we go about the challenging process of re-fledging…

An older Parrot that was never properly fledged will often be seen begging to be picked up by an Owner from a mere 12” (305 mm) away from the hand. He or she maybe terrified of taking flight because of a series of crash landing mishaps that caused bumps or bruises or other unnoticeable pains. It will most likely be overweight, under exercised, and weak of the strength in feet, legs, hips that is required to make abrupt, sure landings. In order to calm its fears, the Parrot must be taught the proper way to flap its wings and brake with all its bulk, throw-out its feet, look down to a precise spot, and touch down gently enough to avoid discomfort or hurt. Re-fledging Adult Parrots is all about Landing Training!

We begin by exercising the Parrot twice or thrice daily with a series of up and down motions while the Parrot is perched on the hand or a stick. Object here is to get the Psittacine to begin serious flapping with wings both to build-up chest muscles and to accustom it to feeling it’s own weight supported by wing flapping (uplift). Obviously a full set, or near full set of primary flight feathers is necessary for lengthy and powerful flight, but even when the Parrot is partially clipped (4 to 6 primary feathers on each wing) this flap training can begin. Make sure that the Parrot does not let go and take off in a flight that ends in a crash, as this will be a setback to confident progress.

Once a Parrot begins to recognize the moments when its wings start taking the weight of its bulk, we can move on to Landing Training. For this, we choose a very soft surface free from injury possibilities—the master bed is a good spot. The Psittacine is picked up gently and briskly from the surface of the bed with two hands on either side of its body, and dropped onto the bed from a height of about six to eight inches (150 - 205 mm). We shout ‘WHEEE’ to give the semblance of a fun game and to signal the Parrot when it is going to be released.

This procedure can be done from the finger or hand perch, but many Parrots tend to hold on tightly and will not attempt to fly the short inches (mm) to the bed. Larger Parrots or those reticent to throw-out their wings in proper landing technique will have to be Flap-Exercised on the finger even dropping the hand all the way to the bed surface to get them used to Wing Braking Form. Then pick them up and drop them from slightly higher, say 10 to 12 inches (255 – 305 mm) -- just enough to get them to throw out their wings, extend their feet and brake to a soft plop on the bed. Once they realize that there is no danger of bumps or bruises, it should become facile to get them to play the Landing Game. Proper form is the key here, not flying forward at all. Further practice leads to 24” (610 mm) drops, then three feet (1 meter), etc. When they get the hang of it, we are ready to move on to a more solid landing site.

At this point we do not try to fly to a perch or a hard object, as the Parrot is still clumsy and could miss and injure it self. A large soft blanket or towel on top of its cage, a soft couch back, or a large weighted basket with a handle, which can easily be grasped by toenails when landing are three possible choices. Baskets also have the advantage of being easily recognizable and can be placed around the room. (This is what we use with devil-may-care natural fledglings that have little fear of anything while learning to fly around!) Let the Parrot perch on them and explore them first. Then again cry ‘WHEEE’ and gently force the Parrot to fly to the new perch site.

After some weeks (or months with bulkier, out-of-shape Parrots) of experience, the Adult Psittacine should begin learning to make instantaneous airborne decisions about where it wishes to land, choosing the spot, braking and thrusting out its feet and coming to rest exactly where it wishes. Voila, we are on our way to changing the Parrot’s life forever. Full flying skill comes with the ability to change direction sharply, turn right and left, fly up from the floor, drop down from a high perch to the ground, come to the Owner’s hand on call, fly when bath wet or in the brisk wind of an outdoor aviary, and land amidst leafy branches and smaller bouncier twigs and ropes.

Owners will normally see a dramatic increase in the agility, confidence, stance and build of their Adult Parrots after six months or so of Re-fledging Training. Serious feather pickers have been known to give up the habit and regain their ‘youthful fledgling’ trust and self-assurance in their captive environments.

 

[mrs.pants]

oh wow thanks for going through the trouble to post all this! i read something similar to this a while ago written by a vet i believe too and touched on a lot of the same points minus the training.

reading this though i'm starting to wonder if our boi actually was allowed to fledge. he readily takes off and lands without any help, he just can't go far at all and mostly glides down. of course it could also just be the normal caique bold nature but the way he acts and the "risks" he takes sometimes i wonder if he could fly before getting his wings trimmed at the store.

either way thanks for this information! i appreciate it

 

[EllenD]

Let me add something to what Laura has been trying to emphasize, because the point she is trying to make is extremely important, yet unknown to most bird-owners unless they themselves are breeders and have hand-raising experience, or if they've been unfortunate enough to have to deal with the detrimental effects of bad-breeding practices...

There are two things that are more detrimental to a bird's psychological and physical health than anything else a breeder can do mistakenly, and those are #1 Force-Weaning a baby bird, and #2 Clipping a baby bird's wings before they fledge. Unfortunately these are two mistakes that can cause such horrible neurological trauma to a baby bird that they can and usually do effect them for the rest of their lives, both in their neurological behaviors and in their physical health. And unless you've experienced the effects of either of these things, then you have no way of understanding what you may be in-for if your bird was clipped before he fledged. It's easy at this point, when your bird is only 5 months-old, to just sum this "wing-flapping" behavior up as just "normal baby behavior", and then it may turn into "normal Caique behavior", but the fact of the matter is that you have no idea whether or not your bird has ever fully-fledged at 5 months-old. And if he hasn't, this could really end-up causing him some severe neurological issues, behavioral issues, and psychological issues after puberty and into his "adult" life, because when a baby bird doesn't go through the normal, natural growth and developmental stages that they are supposed to as baby birds, they tend to turn into "perpetual babies", like they are forever "stuck" and cannot develop further neurologically because they never went through that huge, natural stage. This is akin to a human-baby never learning to walk. It's exactly the same thing for a bird and flying. Imagine if you prevented a human child from ever learning to walk correctly, and suddenly they are 6-7 years old and they have literally never walked properly...not because their bodies weren't capable of doing-so, but just because their parents decided to simply "deprive them" of being able to do so...Imagine what psychological and more-so the behavioral issues that this would result in with a human child...This is exactly what happens to a bird who has their wings clipped before they fledge, and then their wings are continually clipped from that point forward, so they go into puberty at around 1 year-old and they've never learned to fly, and have actually never flown...

****So, as Laura already mentioned to you, this continual "flapping" behavior he's been exhibiting lately may very well be something that he's doing unconsciously, and he really isn't doing it purposely and he has no idea why he's doing it either...It's his body trying to do what his brain should naturally know how to do, but if he was clipped before he fledged and then clipped from that point forward, then his brain has not developed right along with his body, and this is the result...well, one of the physical results. Again, you may very well end-up with a "perpetual baby" in certain aspects of his behavior and psychological make-up, and this isn't a good thing most of the time. Birds that are never allowed to fledge and then are continually clipped usually end-up never mentally "growing-up", so they become extremely needy, clingy birds that often start to actually "regress" in other behaviors after puberty. For example, they often start crying/begging for "feedings", even though they've been fully-weaned and have not had any hand-feedings for months and months. They often act as if they are cold and "beg" to be "laid on", resulting in them needing to be constantly cuddled in a blanket. And in the most dramatic cases, they actually stop eating solid food completely and will only eat if they are hand-fed formula or warm, mushy foods such as oatmeal. And this is for the rest of their lives.

****My best advice to you, since you're lucky in that your bird is still only 5 months-old, is to allow both of his wings to grow-in fully to the point where he actually "fledges", and you have seen him fly with control, to the point he is able to fly around the house/through rooms, he's able to control his direction and is able to land wherever he wants to land. Let him fully-fledge and give him a week or so where he's allowed out-of-cage-time every day, inside of a safe room with a shut door, and allow him to fly around each day for a little bit...Then once you're certain that he is fully able to fly like a bird should be able to fly, THEN you can clip his wings again if that is what is best for your household/life...That's totally your decision. But you absolutely need to make sure that he is allowed to fledge, and at only 5 months-old you are very lucky to still have enough time to allow his wings to grow-in and allow him to fully-fledge before he hits puberty! That's the key...

 

[Laurasea]

Thank you Ellen, that is what I'm try to say. Because the gripping a perch and flapping is Classic fledgling behavior. And at five months old, you know he we t from the breeder to the pet store, he was not allowed to fly around at the pet store. It is also highly unlikely the breeder had him flying , unless he had them in an Avairy which is highly unlikely. If you have ever watched nature films of owls, birds of prey as they follow along a clutch, they all get out and hang on and flap the wings. As I just went through my baby fledgling everything you describe he did! U til he could fly, now he doesn't. Birds that don't fledge are fearful and startle easy, they also think something is wrong with themselves. It's hardwired into their development. He is at the right age we're this drive is strong. Yes he will eventually give up, but their can be lasting damage as his pectoral muscle won't develope, and his mental health. Ellen came up with a good compromised on the safety aspec I hope you and the others who read this thread take it to heart. Sailboat , and the author he quoted have a lot of experience.

 

[mrs.pants]

definitely want you both to know that i'm very grateful for the information given! i know this is a hugely controversial issue that can generate a lot of passion/anger/emotion. regardless of what we do just wanted to express that and thank you again for your responses!

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

I was young and dumb when Amy came home with me thirty years ago. He was four months old and clipped by the "broker" I got him from and never fledged and I just kept clipping him twice a year. Now,almost thirty years later,he has no clue on how to fly and is not interested. This has caused health issues! At his last wellness check his CAV stated that his chest muscles are under developed so now I do flapflapflap lessons just about every night to try and build them up.

When BB came home with me he was just 4.5 months old and was clipped by the breeder. I wasn't about to let the same thing happen to him so when Beebs molted I allowed his sleeves to get long and learn to fly. He's been zooming around the place now for almost two years and is very good at it!
Now that he KNOWS how to zoom about,I have been considering giving him a light trim,only because we live in a different location now,and the little so-and-so is too big for his britches and flys/lands in places he knows he isn't suppose to go!


jim