Is there such thing as too much time out of the cage?

[Cthebird]

I work from home, and happen to do all of my work in the same room as my macaw. He has a play gym next to his cage, and also loves to climb all over his cage, too. Of course I spend time with him playing on or around me, but he clocks a lot of hours out of the cage on the cage and play gym. He's almost always moving around or playing with something on the cage or play gym. He does occasionally go into his cage to eat his main food and water, but I suppose I should force him to eat even more of it. I put a reasonably healthful food and water on his play gym, but the most healthful (Harrison's) is in his cage.

Putting the eating issue aside, should I limit his time out of his cage? My husband thinks that being so extremely free is maybe indulging him too much. If so, how long is OK?

Note: I do have mats in front of his cage and play gym to catch any "accidents" that might happen. When we adopted him his wings were clipped so he doesn't really fly. We are planning on letting his flight feathers grown in. I'm guessing once he starts to fly being "too free" might become a real mess.

I'm thinking maybe I should keep him in his cage a bit more for a while because over Thanksgiving we're going away and he'll be staying with my brother in a smaller cage. I doubt if my brother will take him out much for that week. In fact, I'm not 100% sure my macaw will be completely friendly to my brother. He's still very young and seems prone to biting strangers.

 

[psychocircus91]

It is important that he is able to learn independence. It is good if he is entertaining himself on the stand.

Ultimately, you don't want to over indulge him, if he won't be able to have that much out of cage time in the future.

My Kalani has become a much more confident flyer recently. He is flying to me a lot. I am working on teaching him to stay put unless asked to fly to me.

 

[chris-md]

I’d agree and cast it this way: it’s only overindulging if he doesn’t tolerate well his time when he IS in the cage.

If he behaves badly when he IS in the cage, pouting to get out, it’s THEN that you know there might be such a thing as too much out of cage time. He needs to learn to be OK with being in a cage. Admittedly simply being in a cage more at this point will not be sufficient. Will need to be in partnership with independence training. What that looks like? I have no idea.

This is why I am afraid to modify parkers room. He has an entire room to himself. I could theoretically modify it so he doesn’t need a cage. Thing is He’s great in his cage now. I’m afraid that removing it quasi permenantly in favor of free roaming a room will create problems in the future, like when he has to stay at my moms for a week without coming out (cats). I need his good cage behavior to remain. *note: Parker is out of cage while we are home. But we work regular 9-5 jobs so are out of the house 11 hours a day.

Long winded lay saying: MY first indicator would be to let the in cage behavior be your guide to differentiate between being spoiled with tons of out of cage time or being ambivalent about it.

I’m sure there’s more to it than that but that’s all I’ve got for you. Its at least a start

 

[GaleriaGila]

Rbird... "No!"
Me... "YES!"

 

[LordTriggs]

I'd agree as long as he's not being a brat when he goes to be put in the cage then you're okay

it's when the brat appears you know you're over-indulging. I'd put my conure in and out of the cage a couple times a day when I wasn't at work and he seemed to enjoy both, naturally he preferred being out because I was there but his cage had the majority of his toys which he enjoyed

 

[clark_conure]

What chris-md and lordtriggs said...but with one caveat.....we stay up like 16-29 hours be cause we are just so busy we don't have time for sleep. Birds need a good 11-13 hours sleep, they didn't evolve with campfires and lightbulbs. Make sure he gets a full nights sleep everynight.

 

[Kiwibird]

The big thing with out of cage time when you aren't closely supervising their every move is if the bird is a trustworthy individual. Can the bird be trusted to stay in their area? Have they learned they aren't allowed to get on the floor (or fly wherever they please)? Are they an overly curious bird who likes to "explore" and could get into trouble if your back is turned? Are they a known chewer of household items they shouldn't chew? Are there any predatory animals at all in the house (dogs, cats, ferrets, large snakes etc...)? If so, no matter how "well trained" the predatory animal may appear, the bird needs to be locked up when not supervised for it's own safety.

Some birds just aren't suited to being out with little to no supervision. Just too naughty. For those birds, I'd say 'forced' cage time even when home is necessary so they remain used to it and do not become distressed when you lock them up to leave. Same for birds you don't feel comfortable leaving out all the time for whatever reason and become defiant about going up when it's time. Otherwise, if the bird is behaved, not leaving it's area and not causing any trouble when being put up, why would you lock the bird up? Especially if you're at home!

Not saying it is right for every bird or would work in every home, but Kiwi is never locked in his cage during waking hours anymore. He has always been clipped. He knows he's not allowed to get off his cage onto the floor either and is wholly reliant on humans to move anywhere he can't climb to. He's free all day long to be out or in, whichever he chooses. He's even trustworthy enough to leave uncaged when we run out to do errands (not that theres much choice, he can remove his side cage door and let himself out). After starting to let him be a more "free range" bird several years ago, his behavior and attitude markedly improved. Of his own choosing, spends several hours a day in his cage anyways (even closes his own door behind himself) but also seems to enjoy coming out as he pleases, going to his play tree, climbing on his boing etc... We keep his area filled with lots of fun stuff to do and keep him entertained. For him as an individual, I see no reason or need to cage him anymore, he's happier and no bad comes of it. On the opposite end of the spectrum, my dad has a cockatoo who could set the house on fire if you blinked too long. Definitely not a good candidate to be out unless someone (preferably 2 people) have eagle eyes trained on him at all times. This is one of those "common sense applies here" topics

 

[clark_conure]

I'm thinking maybe I should keep him in his cage a bit more for a while because over Thanksgiving we're going away and he'll be staying with my brother in a smaller cage.

The question I have is how are you going to fit your brother and a bird in the same cage, especially a smaller cage???? And where is your brother going to poop.



Also I 100% agree with what kiwibird posted, I trust Clark so when I go to work at night he sleeps in my headboard behind the pillows and sometimes I find him there or in his cage he has a ladder drawbridge to. When he has to be in his cage when I sleep he's very quiet, so long as he knows I'm not doing something exciting without him. I should mention my bedroom is completely birdproofed. me being asleep is the only danger I can come up with.

 

[dhraiden]

Depends, which is a great answer I know. Our fids are generally on us when we're home indoors. Because the the rest of the time, they're inside.

 

[LordTriggs]

where is your brother going to poop.

On the newspaper of course

 

[clark_conure]

oh silly me, of course!

 

[Teddscau]

I definitely agree with Kiwibird about how some little birdies can't be trusted unsupervised (i.e., ALL of my birds). For years, I kept my birds in their cage, never letting them out. But a year or two before we built the indoor aviary, I started letting them out to explore (I just had the eight budgies then). We'd put a curtain across the entrance to the living room to keep them from exploring the rest of the house. I swear, the trouble they got into! Samantha kept trying to throw things off the bookshelf, and she got herself wedged between books (on purpose!) three days in a row! And one time, Rumi went missing, and I started to get worried. Then, I heard some strange scurrying sounds, like a mouse or something. She somehow managed to fall behind the bookshelf . Despite their misadventures, they were never upset by them.

Anyways, I think it's a good idea to provide your birds with as much out of cage time as you can, but if they might get into trouble, they need to be supervised the entire time. However, your birds need to understand that sometimes they need to stay in their cage, and they need to learn to entertain themselves. Luckily for me, most of my birds were parent raised and identify as their respective species. They know how to entertain themselves, and they're more than happy spending time with each other. However, they still enjoy my company. Even Noah enjoys spending time with his friends in the aviary. He still likes to come out to be with me, but he's also excited when he gets to see his friends again (to sweeten the deal, I toss a few sunflower seeds in a food dish before I leave him).

To prepare him for Thanksgiving, I'd start taking him out of his cage for shorter periods of time, then stick him back in his cage (do this several times a day). Once in his cage, he should be greeted with special treats, toys to shred, some target training, and storytime with you. Just because he's in his cage, it doesn't mean you aren't going to spend time with him. If he doesn't want to go back in and tries to run away, don't force him. You have to make his cage a fun place that he looks forward to going after being out and about for a while. Unless it's an emergency situation, an animal should never be forced to do something they don't want to do. This can cause serious problems which can only be solved using painstaking desensitization.

 

[clark_conure]

How do we desensitize the brother to living in the cage?


.......OK I'm done I just thought the OP might want to print this out and give it to his brother as he babysits the bird..... a thanksgiving present.

 

[LordTriggs]

well Clark, humans actually respond quite well to negative reinforcement considering our nature, and certain members of our species can respond to positive reinforcement though negative does seem to keep us in line better. Just depends on whether the brother's happiness is a big worry?

 

[Kentuckienne]

Everything depends on what’s best for the bird in the long term.

In an environment where it’s safe to be out, and someone there all the time, why not let him be out? That’s the natural way of being for a bird. Being shut up in a cage isn’t natural.

In an environment where there isn’t constant supervision, or there are hazards, or where the bird needs to travel or be cared for elsewhere then maybe he would be happiest if he could learn to be in a cage without being distressed.

A bird playing with toys, foraging, experiencing an enriched environment inside a cage might be happier than a bird who just sits on top of it, or on a perch, with nothing to do. A bird who will cheerfully be in the cage is much easier for humans to care for, otherwise we wouldn’t be having this discussion. That’s why most birds, especially large parrots, shouldn’t have to live as pets. Their lives are usually dictated by the needs and wants of the human and not by their own desires. That’s just my opinion... parrots, and birds in general, aren’t genetically equipped to live in isolation, unflighted, in cages or not. Parrots in the wild don’t pluck out their own feathers.

But the parrot is here, and you couldn’t put him back in the rainforest if you wanted to, so use your intuition and powers of observation and knowledge of the greater world he lives in to design a life that’s as good as it can be for him. Don’t put him in a cage just because someone more experienced say to, don’t leave him out all the time just because someone says to - you are his guardian and companion and you’re best positioned to decide what’s best. You’ll find lots of support, advice, and encouragement to help fine-tune the effort.

 

[Cthebird]

I'm thinking maybe I should keep him in his cage a bit more for a while because over Thanksgiving we're going away and he'll be staying with my brother in a smaller cage.

The question I have is how are you going to fit your brother and a bird in the same cage, especially a smaller cage???? And where is your brother going to poop.

LOL! I worded that one incorrectly. No, my brother wouldn't fit in the cage, but when we were kids it would have been nice to put him in one.

 

[Cthebird]

Thanks so much for your responses, everyone. I have considered all of what you've said and thought about my bird's behavior.

My bird doesn't seem to mind being in his cage. When he is in it he's playing up a storm, but he clearly loves to be out. Actually, I think I mentioned that sometimes when he's out he'll even go into his cage for a bit to eat the food there (vs. the play gym) and to sit on his favorite perch.

Luckily my little guy seems well behaved when out and only ventures a short distance from his "set up". The only exception to this is that he doesn't always easily step up when he doesn't want to budge. Sometimes I really have to force him. He's getting better, especially when he gets treats to lure him. Twice I left him out very briefly to run an errand. Actually, I didn't mean to. When I realized it I felt horrible. But when I got home little guy was sitting on top of his cage like a good boy.

The cage he'll be in at my brother's house is smaller than his beautiful cage at home. We only really put him in that cage when we bring him outside to get sun. He's slowly gotten used to it (he used to hate it), but he is clearly not nearly as happy there as in his big cage. One thing about his small cage is that I've rarely seen him eat or drink while in it. I guess if he's hungry enough he eventually will. Hubby suggested we also bring along his play gym and give my brother the option to let him out on it. I would definitely want him supervised in such a case. I'm not too sure how easily it would be for my brother to get him back into the cage.

As mentioned, my little guy's wings are clipped. When the flight feathers grow in I might have to make some changes.

Well, I guess my little guy will continue to get a lot of out of cage time. In total, he gets about 8-10 hours out of cage daily. He goes to sleep around 9 pm and is uncovered again at about 9 am, though we do hear some rustling at about 8:30 am.

 

[Birdman666]

Mine are out 24/7...

When I go away they get caged, primarily cuz I don't know how well the person coming in and feeding them would do with having to handle them, and what could happen if I wasn't there...

Mine do fine with it. They get clingy when I get home, but that's about it.

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

I am working on teaching him to stay put unless asked to fly to me.

Why? Flying is great exercise for birds. I think birds should have the freedom to choose what they want to do while they're out of the cage, not just sit on a stand. That's the whole point of out of cage time, right? In this case, the stand simply becomes another cage. The bird cannot choose to fly somewhere else, or even if it can, it is encouraged to stay there. If the bird chooses to leave the stand, clearly it is bored and wants to do something else. Out of cage time should be quality time, spent with the owner (scratching, cuddling, training, playing), and exercising, not just sitting on a stand with its wings clipped. Of course, this does not mean the bird can do anything it wants (for example, destroy furniture or attack people) but it should have the freedom to choose where it wants to be. If the bird spends 10 hours on a stand doing nothing, it's the same as spending that time in the cage. Of course, it's different if the bird flies to the stand because it wants to be there. Keep in mind quantity vs quality when deciding how much out of cage time your bird needs.

 

[chris-md]

Because undesired movement can be deadly, and especially larger birds prefer to walk over flying. Our ekkie climbs down from his cage and seeks us out sometimes when we are in the kitchen. We don’t always hear him and there have been at least twice one of us had to body-check the other so they didn’t step on Parker.

Birds absolutely need to be taught when to stay and not wander offoff, just like dogs and kids.