Is spraying with water when an IRN bites cruel?

[Crayfish066]

My IRN still bites to try and get his own way, usually when I have something
he wants or when he decides to land on my keyboard and expects me to move
my hands.

I've tried a few options to stop him biting but nothing has really worked too well.

I've heard some people spray their birds with water to discourage them, is
this considered cruel and is it even effective?

I disagree with it if they're just being irritating e.g. being really loud, or chewing things they shouldn't but I'm unsure how to feel about it if they're
being violent.

Thoughts?

 

[Flboy]

Another way to look at it, bird being a jerk, so can I!

Give this a serious try!
http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57935-brainstorming-biting-parrots.html

 

[chris-md]

Violence in trying to get their way is more a training issue and falls under the “irritating” category. They won’t learn anything from that. My boy, a 9 year old rehome I got 2 years ago, can’t stand spray bottles, recoils at the sound of it. I think he might have been punished with it in a prior home. Anything tied to water should never be considered as “punishment” for husbandry reasons, it makes bathing them much more difficult. aside from the point that they don’t learn from that.

What exactly HAVE you tried? I can identify one issue already. If hes flying to you without you calling, and you let him stay and hang out, you’ve successfully rewarded this unwanted behavior. When he does that, you need to put him right back where he came from. Then reward him when he stays put. Station training.

 

[Terry57]

My Alex was punished by being squirted with water as a punishment in his previous home, and the first time I tried to mist him, he dropped right off his perch onto the bottom of the cage and just trembled all over. It took months of him watching the other bird get misted, and me just misting him as I walked by before he got used to being bathed and actually started liking it. He now loves to be misted, and will also bathe himself, which he wouldn't do before. I don't think it's fair to use something that most birds love to discourage them, positive reinforcement has much better results.

 

[Silverstone205]

Well. That’s what we get, taking an older bird in our home. ;-) My Lovebirds are more like water ducks. They can’t get enough. Our African Ringneck on the other hand is like a cat. Water? Ieeeaaah! Not that she gets sprayed from us. But in the last weeks we have her, she isn’t interested and actually scared like hell. Only one day, she said on the Lovebirds cage when they took a bath in the drink water, she looked at them and mimic the little ones. I took a bowl with water and she dived her head into it. Sneezed and that’s was it. Since then, no bath at all. No matter what I offer. Letting a water drop drip on her head gives me a look like: Are you serious right now?! I eat you for breakfast!!

And yes! Only with a thick sweater on I can “play” with her. She comes on my arm and bites my sleeve. If she finds my hands or feed - breakfast time. But she gets better week by week. Well. We are the 3rd home for her. I’m not giving up on her that is for sure.

Put some welding cloves on when you start typing! ;-)

 

[LordTriggs]

yes it is cruel is the simple answer

the way to stop biting is to find out why, then work on making it so they don't have a reason to bite. A bite is a last resort for a parrot, they tell us when stuff is wrong and we don't understand. Is there anything that is recurring whenever he bites? That's where you start with the biting

 

[clark_conure]

Yeah don't use something you want the bird to enjoy regularly and is healthy for them to want ....as a punishment.

Look up the time out method, basically when your bird bites instead of water, he gets put on the floor, like ten feet away. He is shunned by his flock for bad behavior. You putting your hands on your keyboard is no excuse for a bite. Make him walk back and apologise....the biting will ebb off pretty quick if he figures out biting equals I have to go on the floor, (and not the cage and not a playstand, someplace out in the open he won't like.)

 

[Crayfish066]

yes it is cruel is the simple answer

the way to stop biting is to find out why, then work on making
it so they don't have a reason to bite. A bite is a last resort for a parrot, they
tell us when stuff is wrong and we don't understand. Is there anything that is
recurring whenever he bites? That's where you start with the biting

He bites under two circumstances mainly, when he wants something I have
and I'm not letting go of it (he doesn't even give me chance to let go sometimes)
and sometimes when I offer him my hand and he
doesn't want to step up.

The only solution I can see to the former is to just give him whatever he wants
but I don't feel like I should be rewarding his bad behaviour either.

Violence in trying to get their way is more a training
issue and falls under the “irritating” category. They won’t learn anything from that.
My boy, a 9 year old rehome I got 2 years ago, can’t stand spray bottles, recoils at the sound of it.
I think he might have been punished with it in a prior home. Anything tied to water should never be considered
as “punishment” for husbandry reasons, it makes bathing them much more difficult. aside from
the point that they don’t learn from that.

What exactly HAVE you tried? I can identify one issue already. If hes flying to
you without you calling, and you let him stay and hang out, you’ve successfully rewarded
this unwanted behavior.
When he does that, you need to put him right back where he came from. Then reward him when
he stays put. Station training.

Him flying and landing on me isn't unwanted behaviour, I like when he does this.
To discourage biting I've tried removing him from my hand, blowing on him (this seems to confuse
him and stop him but he doesn't seem to learn from it) and
putting him on the floor, although I haven't tried the latter a lot and he actually seems comfortable
exploring on the floor these days anyway so I doubt it would be a good deterrent.

 

[Birdman666]

I wouldn't argue cruel. I disagree with the practice.

You want them to LIKE water, and bathing. (And since most of mine do, it would NOT be effective to deter biting.) Not to see it as a punishment.

It's not a particularly effective method to deter biting, and there are better ways to train a bird.

 

[Mindy]

Violence in trying to get their way is more a training issue and falls under the “irritating” category. They won’t learn anything from that. My boy, a 9 year old rehome I got 2 years ago, can’t stand spray bottles, recoils at the sound of it. I think he might have been punished with it in a prior home. Anything tied to water should never be considered as “punishment” for husbandry reasons, it makes bathing them much more difficult. aside from the point that they don’t learn from that.

What exactly HAVE you tried? I can identify one issue already. If hes flying to you without you calling, and you let him stay and hang out, you’ve successfully rewarded this unwanted behavior. When he does that, you need to put him right back where he came from. Then reward him when he stays put. Station training.

Really?! Another thing I did not know, your bird has to be called to you...that makes total sense now that I think about. I'm loving this forum ��

 

[Mindy]

Violence in trying to get their way is more a training issue and falls under the “irritating” category. They won’t learn anything from that. My boy, a 9 year old rehome I got 2 years ago, can’t stand spray bottles, recoils at the sound of it. I think he might have been punished with it in a prior home. Anything tied to water should never be considered as “punishment” for husbandry reasons, it makes bathing them much more difficult. aside from the point that they don’t learn from that.

What exactly HAVE you tried? I can identify one issue already. If hes flying to you without you calling, and you let him stay and hang out, you’ve successfully rewarded this unwanted behavior. When he does that, you need to put him right back where he came from. Then reward him when he stays put. Station training.

Really?! Another thing I did not know, your bird has to be called to you...that makes total sense now that I think about. I'm loving this forum ��

Those weird question marks are supposed to be a smiley face. I don't want you to think I'm being sarcastic.

 

[MonicaMc]

He bites under two circumstances mainly, when he wants something I have and I'm not letting go of it (he doesn't even give me chance to let go sometimes) and sometimes when I offer him my hand and he doesn't want to step up.

The only solution I can see to the former is to just give him whatever he wants but I don't feel like I should be rewarding his bad behaviour either.

To discourage biting I've tried removing him from my hand, blowing on him (this seems to confuse him and stop him but he doesn't seem to learn from it) and putting him on the floor, although I haven't tried the latter a lot and he actually seems comfortable exploring on the floor these days anyway so I doubt it would be a good deterrent.

If you have something he wants, you can try avoiding situations that result in you having something he wants... i.e. if you are eating with him out, don't eat with him out. If he bites when you handle your phone or talk on it, then don't talk on your phone.

Alternatively, before taking him out, you can give him something that he can engage in and with other than what you have.



I don't see where you mentioned about not getting bit as a way to discourage biting.... I know, easier said than done! But the only bite that can't be rewarded is the bite that never occurs. Biting can be self-rewarding.

This basically means learning to read their body language before a bit occurs and backing off, avoiding situations that you know will result in a bite, or even redirecting the bite into something more positive... i.e. chewing on a toy or foraging instead.

Trick training can also be a great way to help bond with birds and to stimulate their brains!

 

[Crayfish066]

He bites under two circumstances mainly, when he wants something I have and I'm not letting go of it (he doesn't even give me chance to let go sometimes) and sometimes when I offer him my hand and he doesn't want to step up.

The only solution I can see to the former is to just give him whatever he wants but I don't feel like I should be rewarding his bad behaviour either.

To discourage biting I've tried removing him from my hand, blowing on him (this seems to confuse him and stop him but he doesn't seem to learn from it) and putting him on the floor, although I haven't tried the latter a lot and he actually seems comfortable exploring on the floor these days anyway so I doubt it would be a good deterrent.

If you have something he wants, you can try avoiding situations that result in you having something he wants... i.e. if you are eating with him out, don't eat with him out. If he bites when you handle your phone or talk on it, then don't talk on your phone.

Alternatively, before taking him out, you can give him something that he can engage in and with other than what you have.



I don't see where you mentioned about not getting bit as a way to discourage biting.... I know, easier said than done! But the only bite that can't be rewarded is the bite that never occurs. Biting can be self-rewarding.

This basically means learning to read their body language before a bit occurs and backing off, avoiding situations that you know will result in a bite, or even redirecting the bite into something more positive... i.e. chewing on a toy or foraging instead.

Trick training can also be a great way to help bond with birds and to stimulate their brains!

I usually avoid eating while he's out anyway because he'll try and help himself, it's pretty hilarious though.

Ideally I'd like to teach him that biting isn't acceptable just because he doesn't get his own way. His bites aren't very painful so in that aspect
they're more of an annoyance than anything, what bothers me is that he
feels he should bite me for trivial things.

 

[MonicaMc]

Then it would help to figure out how to avoid the bites in the first place and redirect to more positive things.

Trick training can be a great way for both of you to learn to communicate and form a healthier relationship! Target training is great to start out with!