Is it to late for me and my birds?

[PF_Guest28045]

Hi everyone,

I have had my two love birds for 8 years now.
since i have had them my two birds have been affraid of me
when we first got the birds they were supposed to be hand reared and fed so they would be easy to hold etc but i think this was a lie.

Initially we would let them out and they had their wings clipped so we made a little ramp so they would climb down and run around etc. We would have to chase them around to pick them up to get them back in. We also tried the hold them in a towel and talk quietly to them but i think this made everything worse.

Anyway that was a long time ago. Ive tried so many things for them to like me, granted i have given up so many times.

It is starting to make me sad that i have these two birds that dont like me. I feel like i am a bad bird owner and maybe i should give them away. I really really really want to bond with them and have them be ok with sitting on me and my hands etc, but if i put my hand near them at all they are scared!

Is this a lost cause because of the time that has gone past?
I did get told previously to seperate them but i guess i am a softy and couldnt bare to seperate them, or is this my only solution.

The male does have missing feathers around his chest and head, and i belive it could be the female biting him ( she is the dominate one ) but the majority of the time they seem to get along.

Does anyone have any solid ideas to my problem? It would break my heart to give them away to someone else but if i am the problem i would do it.

Please any help would be great!

I have attached a picture of them aswell.

 

[BoomBoom]

They're beautiful birds and so in love with each other! I don't think you're the problem and you cared enough to ask for help, so that certainly does not make you a bad owner.

Some birds may never warm up to humans - and that's perfectly okay! They are happy in their own little world and you give them such great care, perhaps they have everything that they need. To give them away would turn their world upside down. I think they will be happier where they are - with you. You can give them ambient attention, that is, talking to them from outside the cage, singing to them, feeding them treats through the bars (or if they are afraid of hands, just drop the treat in their bowls). Introduce new toys, new veggies and fruits, anything that you think they'd enjoy. I'm sure you do all these things already. They may come around or maybe they won't. I think that's perfectly fine and that they appreciate you just the same.

Lastly, you are not soft for not separating them, you're considerate and kind.

 

[PF_Guest28045]

Thank you for your reply boom boom. I feel a bit better about them now.

The funny thing with these guys is everytime i get them new toys they dont really seem to care for them, ive tried all kinds but ive never found one they play with alot. The exception for this was a twirl perch thingy the female used to do this weird repetative thing on it (i think she was pleasing her self if u know what i mean/humping it) apologies if thats a little crude.
she seemed to do it alot and she tore away alot of the material on it. I bought a new one and she has never done it again?

Same with fresh fruits and veges ive thrown some in their seed bowls and they just dont touch it or throw it out.

 

[SailBoat]

It is never to late! The goal is that "only good things happen when you are around." Regarding new stuff showing-up, it may be better to allow those new toys to slowly appear and work their way to the cage over time. With some Parrots, stuff just showing-up can scare them. The same it true with Food.

Change your approach and you may see a real change. Remember, It is NEVER the fault of the Parrot! It is ALWAYS the fault of the Human. Change your vantage point and see it from their position will allow you to see what you are doing wrong and correct it.

 

[EllenD]

I agree with Sailboat fully, it's never too late...but it does and will require a daily commitment from you, every single day, and you can't give-up. You must realize that it sometimes takes months to even years to tame a wild bird, and with a pair of love birds it can even more difficult if they are closely bonded...

It doesn't sound at all like they were hand-raised/fed if you had to "chase them" and towel them as babies...Have you had them DNA sexed? Just checking, as it doesn't quite sound like they are a closely-bonded pair that are of the opposite sex to me at all, and if the breeder lied about hand-raising them then how do you know they are a male and a female? Have they ever mated in 8 years? Has the "female" ever laid an egg? That would explain any fighting between them...

Separating them is only an option if you plan to separately work on training them every single day. From experience I can tell you that trying to hand-tame a pair of birds together is much more difficult than separating them into 2 different cages and working with each bird alone, in a room with a shut-door and a carpeted floor...Also, I always recommend clipping their wings before you start training, as if the bird can simply fly away from you then it's nearly impossible for the taming to work, as you'll spend the entire time chasing the bird, which just makes them more scared of you. If you clip them and work with them on the floor, they must rely upon you for everything, and this is what will earn their trust the quickest, and earning their trust is always step #1 in trying to train them.

I think you need to make the decision on what you want to do with them, and then whatever that decision is you need to stick to it. If you want to just keep them as birds that you have but don't really interact with, then that's fine as long as they seem happy, healthy, and safe being together (and that they don't breed, although if that hasn't happened in 8 years it's probably not going to, which is why I'm suspicious that they are of the opposite sex). If you want to really commit to trying to hand-tame them then you need to put aside at least an hour a day for each bird, and stick to that. If you want to rehome them then realize that they may go from home to home to home, as they are not tame pets, and they also are not a "breeding-pair", so expectations of future owners will cause constant rehoming...so I don't suggest this as an option.

 

[wrench13]

Oh please dont rehome them. Since they arnot hand tame evey new owne with go thu that you have put them thru- expecting them to be hand frendly and tame. Ellen and'Boats have give you excellent info. Taming them is possible but will take long turm commitmet and time EVERYDAY and consistency to tame them. Good luck these are 2 beautiful bids. No chasing around and toweling them as this is a major tust busting action.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Such wonderful ideas above. I love our members' constant readiness to counsel and suggest and support.
As you make your decision and act on it, please keep us informed.
Good for you, for reaching out so frankly and bravely!

 

[PF_Guest28045]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
I got some advice in regards to clicker training and i am going to try tame them a little more.

I wont give them away, i do love having them i just felt i was a bad bird owner.

 

[wrench13]

Ryan, remember - the way to a birds heart is thru their belly ( like us men ). Find the treat that they love ( for my parrot its pine nuts) and now only use that treat to work your way into their hearts. Small slices of pine nut thru the bars at first ( a few weeks), and see if they will take it from your hand ,with hand right at the cage opening. If yes, do that for a few weeks. Next might be holding the treat just our of their reach and having to step on your finger to get it ( again right out side the cage). If none of this works, there are other approaches. Clicker training works better of the parrots aren;t scared S**TLESS of you or your hand. Me, I reward with the treat IMMEDIATELY when the action is done right. Good luck, and don't feel like a bad parront, these 2 look very happy. Now you are going to enrich their lives more. Try to set a specific time every day to do your training, and I mean every day, parrots love consistency.

 

[EllenD]

Agreed!!!! Wrench nailed it!

Please don't just start-off trying to "clicker-train" them, as that is only going to set you up for failure again. Clicker-Training is a great tool for a bird you can handle and is already used to you and not scared of you. However, if you try to just start Clicker-Training your lovebirds, who cannot be approached by you while inside their cage let along handled by you, you're going to give-up during the first 5 minutes of your first session. And that won't be your fault at all, it's just because Clicker-training is meant for already tame birds, or birds that you can already work with. It would be impossible to do so with your Lovebirds as you describe them.

**You need to approach your two Lovebirds just as we have already told you...Like they are non-tame baby Lovebirds that you just brought home from the breeder. You wouldn't start-out by trying to Clicker-Train them, and that's not how you need to approach your birds now. Whomever advised you to use Clicker-Training either didn't realize that your birds are not at all able to be handled/interacted with personally, or they don't know what they're talking about at all. And we're only afraid you're going to give-up again if you attempt to do the Clicker-Training with them to start off with, because it's not even going to get started....

So please, just start-out approaching your birds like parent-raised babies you just brought home, and you must hand-tame first, before you worry about actually trying to do any specific training with them. Once they are tamed and you're able to handle them without a problem, THEN you can use Clicker-Training to teach them to do specific things, or to curb a bad behavior...But being scared and not "hand-tame" is not a bad behavior that Clicker-Training will cure...

 

[PF_Guest28045]

Sorry for the slow replies.
I made a few videos to show the sort of responses i am getting from them if it helps at all.

Putting seed box and water bowl back in cage:
[ame="https://youtu.be/rFX05bgvUzA"]Putting seed box and water bowl back in cage - YouTube[/ame]

Hand towards them:
[ame="https://youtu.be/ei78XmZWiuo"]Hand towards them. - YouTube[/ame]

Let me know if the links dont work.

 

[Sunnyclover]

I really feel for you on this because they don't even seem like they will come close enough to you to take a treat from your hands. My suggestion is to put your hand in the cage with a millet spray in it for an hour a day or as much as you can up to an hour a day until they become less scared of it and eventually eat the millet.

 

[Wingnut]

Hey Ryan08!

I actually just bought a baby Lovebird about a week ago. She is EXTREMELY afraid of hands, yet once you grab her she seems to be really comfortable? She’s a weird bird....But the second video of you putting your hand in the cage is the exact reaction I get if not even more. I’ve been reading about what SunnyClover said to try with the millet and I think that might help. Honestly I’ve owned a few other birds that were excited to be on me, but never one that is so afraid of me.
Let us know how it goes! I’m in the same spot with my new bird. >.<

 

[PF_Guest28045]

I spent around an hour this morning and tonight sitting close to the cage with a millet spray in my hand and slowly moved and put the tip of it in the cage. After a little bit the blue bird moved a perch closer and the orange one started get closer awhile later.

They didnt eat the millet but they did seemed more ok with me being near them from when i first sat down there. (they were huddled in the corner at the start) so i guess thats some progress! they even tried to have sex so they cant be terrified of me lol.

And now my arm and shoulder is killing me from sitting there still with an arm out trying not to move haha.

 

[PF_Guest28045]

@wingnut they are interesting little things arnt they haha.
I hope you have more success then i have with birds lol

 

[EllenD]

You've got an obviously very closely-bonded pair of lovebirds there, meaning closely bonded to each other, and this is the majority, if not all of you problem.

Refresh my memory, is this a male and a female pair? If so, are they mating? (I forget their ages)

You're going to have an extremely difficult time earning their trust/getting them to bond with you, as they are bonded to each other. And if they are a male/female pair, then you need to make a decision as to whether or not you want them to be a breeding-pair of birds, as that is exactly what is going to happen if they are...

This is most-likely going to come down to you separating them into their own cages and working with each of them 1-on-1 on a daily basis if you want to tame them, as they aren't going to want to bond to you as long as they are bonded to each other. And if they are a male/female pair you're going to end-up with babies, and this isn't a situation you want to get into without any education or training on hand-feeding, having the correct equipment such as a Brooder, etc., as you must always be ready to take-over the care of the babies in the event that the parents reject a baby, or all of the babies...so if this is the case and they are a male/female pair, you need to separate them...OR

If you don't mind just having a bonded pair of birds that you cannot handle, then they can be that too, as long as you remove the eggs, freeze them overnight, and then put them back in the cage until the female loses interest in them when she realizes they aren't going to hatch. This keeps her from continually laying egg after egg, as she will if you simply remove the eggs and throw them out...This is a decision you're going to have to think about and them make, as it's extremely, extremely difficult to hand-tame multiple birds together, let alone a bonded-pair...This is why when people are selling a breeding-pair of birds, they advertise them as "Breeding-Pair of parrots..Not Pets"...

 

[PF_Guest28045]

Hello Ellen D,

I think your right, that and we had to chase them around when they were younger and catch them with hands to get them back into thier cage.

I think they are around 8 - 10ish ill have to look around to see if I can find a recipt. They have never had eggs and they are male and female from DNA testing.

I would much rather have them tammed I'm not interested in breeding as I have no idea what to do lol.

If I was to separate them, is there the chance they could die? I do have another smaller cage I can put next to the bigger one. If I some how managed to tame them to at least be comfortable near me and to touch them could they then be put back together?

Sorry for slow reply.

 

[EllenD]

Hi Ryan...

No, they won't die if you separate them. You can put their individual cages beside each other, but the idea here is that as long as they are bonded to one another, they are most-likely never going to accept you. You need to replace their bond that they have with each other, basically...That's the only way this is going to work...

And no, you cannot put them back together, first of all they may not bond again, they may be aggressive or violent with each other after being separated for a long time and bonding with a person, etc. However, they also might just go right back to the way they are now. You have to realize that any species of birds, when 2 are put together, can either hate each other, tolerate each other, or closely bond to each other. And when they closely bond with each other, then it's awfully difficult for them to also bond closely with people. But with lovebirds, it's a whole other level, someone else above said that lovebirds tend to not be friendly once they are put together, and that's very true...So they need to stay separated, and you must commit to interacting one-on-one with each of them every day in order to tame them...

And when I say interact one-on-one with them, I mean carrying one of their cages to a totally separate room with a door that shuts, and preferably a carpeted floor, and start from there. They can't be in the same room when you're working with them.

And if they are fully-flighted right now, I would highly, highly suggest that you clip both of them before you start working with them, as there is absolutely no way that you are going to be able to even start taming them or forming a bond with them if they are flying all over the room, and you have to be chasing them and toweling them constantly. That's not going to work at all. They must be clipped in this particular situation...the other thing that clipping their wings does is it makes the bird rely on you for things that it otherwise wouldn't have to, like getting back from the floor to it's cage that is up high during training-times...I've hand-tamed dozens and dozens of Budgies who were parent-raised and never interacted with, and the very first thing I do is clip their wings, as there is absolutely no way at all to work with a wild bird that is flying all over the room, landing on windows, and you're chasing them from place to place, yelling at them, getting frustrated, etc. You must be able to put the bird out on the floor, with their cage up high and away from them so they can't climb back in it, let them figure out they can no-longer fly away, and start from there....And don't worry, their wings will quickly grow back in a month or two, and it causes them no pain at all...hopefully, if you work with each of the alone every day during that period, by the time their wings grow-back they'll be 50% more tame than they were when you started, and you can allow them to stay flighted at that point and still continue to work with them daily...

Also, just a question, did you have them DNA tested, or did someone else tell you they were DNA tested? I'm asking because it wouldn't be the first time that a pair of lovebirds was called "male and female" by a breeder, pet shop, private party, etc. when they were not, lying about a DNA test...8-10 years is a long, long time for a female lovebird to not lay a single egg, even an unfertile egg...And as closely as those two birds of yours look to be, I don't think for a minute that they are a male and a female yet not breeding or egg-laying in 8-10 years...I really think either you were lied to, or the DNA test was wrong, because that would be a first, an extremely closely-bonded pair of Lovebirds who are male and female, yet they have never mated/bred in 8-10 years...