IRN Second year

[GigiDutreix]

Hi all!

I got my Baby Blue almost 2 years ago. She is a rehomed parrot, and the original owner didn't even give her a name. She used to be such a quiet and scared bird, but I feel like she's opened up a lot. There's a lot of good about her! But, there are still a lot of things I want to improve on with her.

- Baby Blue is extremely territorial. Her main cage and playground are next to each other, making a lot of space for her to play in. But with all this ground and the fact that I work in the same room her cage is in when I try to go near her cage to change her water, she will fly and bite as hard as she can on my head. I've tried being slow and quiet, but that doesn't do anything. So when I change her stuff, I have to give her something to distract her (like a treat or a phone.) And even if I'm just standing near there, she will full force fly and attack me with the intention of hurting me. I try really hard not to react, but just last week there was blood.

- I feel like I will never get her to trust me enough to even climb on my hands. I have to use jackets to do step up, and if she sees my fingers or hands-- even when they aren't moving, she will bite them so hard she draws blood. She is very jittery sometimes, which makes me fearful when she's on my shoulder. She has had instances where she's on my shoulder, and I have to have headphones on to protect my ears and face. Because otherwise, she will randomly attack my face or ears, like the idea of skin scares her at all. (I tried to remedy this with treats but anytime I try to take a treat from my fingers, she does a very defensive stance and will try to bite my fingers instead.)

-Sometimes when I'm getting dressed she will see that means I'm leaving and will fly and attack me, sometimes trying to claw my face. I've never tried to force her onto my face or skin, so it's possible she's just not used to it or my eyes creep her out.

- Even when I try to talk to her it seems like she even hates my voice. Maybe I'm too high-pitched?

-anytime I look at her (I don't look at her in the eyes) for too long she launches and tries to bite my face.

Maybe I'm just not training her enough, and its on me. I work from home all day every day (I'm an artist) with several jobs a day, so it's not like she sees me so little. I try to spend at least a decent amount of time talking to her, but I just wish that I could hold her while I'm working, or at least get her to stop attacking me unprompted.

Any suggestions to help her behavior would help.

 

[Laurasea]

Beautiful birdie @@ great cage.

Frustrating situation. Really seems like you have done great for working with a fearful pretty untame parrot.

I'm trying to think of articles or links that might help....

Target training comes to mind first, have you tried that?

Then there is bubble training , maybe it's called different things. But essentially you come towards you bird in calm relaxed way. Watch closely ( but sly like a spy) pause as soon as you see the slightest focus in you, do not go so far that the bird moves away or attacks that's going way to far. Hold the position, untill focus is off you and slightest relaxation. Say good birdie and back off. Wait a few minutes go do something else. Then repeat. Maybe you can move slightest closer this time or still the same distance . Keep doing off and on . The goal is for the bird to realize you respect her body language and comfort level . That she doesn't have to escalate things for you to pay attention . And also this should allow you to get closer and closer without big reactions.

Then hopefully you will eventually be able to walk up say hi hand a treat or put a treat in a special treat only dish and then walk away .
And progress to have them come towards you or a spot you indicates fot a treat.

Shaping behavior in small ways can lead to big gains. But it takes time and a fluid reading of your bird.

Doing foraging together can be hands off way to positively interact . And give her a different job to do than attack you. Maybe use a TV table or small side table even with the lower level of her play stand. Push it up next to the play stand. Get a treat a single seed works great, place on the table and out a few straps if cut up paper over it. Tell her get the treat, back up enough for her to be comfortable. Brag like crazy when she does. Repeat. Then give a break. Next time make it a little different or a little harder like lots if shredded paper in a big pile. Over time fast or slow depending on her you can make really elaborate . You can put a seed in a slightest waded up paper. Once she learns to unwrap these. You can start leaving them on her play stand or in her Cage for her to find. You can have lots of fun and be creative , and they can really get into it and expend mental energy figure stuff out.

 

[ctwo]

This is a hard one. Usually, I would lead with more patience. I would have lost all of that before two years I'm sure.

IRN seem to be a more difficult bird and they just need that much more attention. It took over a year and then a shelter in place order to get me and Mango as close as I think we can be. Mine was 5 years old when I got him and came bonded with a cockatiel. For a good part of the first year he bit me plenty and would lunge at me when I came around. At that point, I had him mostly used to me, but every so often he would still take a nip at me.

I will say that I observed that he was trained early on to step up from the back side, and I that is a good idea for IRN, who have a tendency to lead with their beak anyway.

Anyway, Mango would come around me a lot during the days when I was home and we would spend hours together, him on my shoulder, monitor, or back of my chair, or crawling around my hands. Sometimes he would give me sweet nibbles on my ear and bow, demanding scritches.

Well, then I had to return to work and my time with Mango is much more limited. I've observed this year that some of his aggression is returning and I've had a couple more occasions to bleed. He's still a sweet bird and often wants to be with me. I just have to be more observant.

And that was a key for me and Mango. I learned to recognize her looks and got better at avoiding conflict with him. Sometimes just noticing he does not want to step up right now and giving him just a couple minutes of space, or approaching it in another way was rewarded.

Look carefully at how her feathers puff or are pulled tight, the angle her head is cocked, her demeanor, and what she's been saying to you. I recognized at least 4 different inflections in Mango's basic whistle call, and those mean something, as subtle as they are.

I think it's good to make eye contact. I bet she's looking at you every time. I would often look with just one eye though since I read that two close eyes looking straight on appears like a typical predator to them.

I think Laura has good advise with target training. Some kind of challenge/reward activity.

 

[MissMac]

Beautiful birdie @@ great cage.

Frustrating situation. Really seems like you have done great for working with a fearful pretty untame parrot.

I'm trying to think of articles or links that might help....

Target training comes to mind first, have you tried that?

Then there is bubble training , maybe it's called different things. But essentially you come towards you bird in calm relaxed way. Watch closely ( but sly like a spy) pause as soon as you see the slightest focus in you, do not go so far that the bird moves away or attacks that's going way to far. Hold the position, untill focus is off you and slightest relaxation. Say good birdie and back off. Wait a few minutes go do something else. Then repeat. Maybe you can move slightest closer this time or still the same distance . Keep doing off and on . The goal is for the bird to realize you respect her body language and comfort level . That she doesn't have to escalate things for you to pay attention . And also this should allow you to get closer and closer without big reactions.

Then hopefully you will eventually be able to walk up say hi hand a treat or put a treat in a special treat only dish and then walk away .
And progress to have them come towards you or a spot you indicates fot a treat.

Shaping behavior in small ways can lead to big gains. But it takes time and a fluid reading of your bird.

Doing foraging together can be hands off way to positively interact . And give her a different job to do than attack you. Maybe use a TV table or small side table even with the lower level of her play stand. Push it up next to the play stand. Get a treat a single seed works great, place on the table and out a few straps if cut up paper over it. Tell her get the treat, back up enough for her to be comfortable. Brag like crazy when she does. Repeat. Then give a break. Next time make it a little different or a little harder like lots if shredded paper in a big pile. Over time fast or slow depending on her you can make really elaborate . You can put a seed in a slightest waded up paper. Once she learns to unwrap these. You can start leaving them on her play stand or in her Cage for her to find. You can have lots of fun and be creative , and they can really get into it and expend mental energy figure stuff out

Beautiful birdie @@ great cage.

Frustrating situation. Really seems like you have done great for working with a fearful pretty untame parrot.

I'm trying to think of articles or links that might help....

Target training comes to mind first, have you tried that?

Then there is bubble training , maybe it's called different things. But essentially you come towards you bird in calm relaxed way. Watch closely ( but sly like a spy) pause as soon as you see the slightest focus in you, do not go so far that the bird moves away or attacks that's going way to far. Hold the position, untill focus is off you and slightest relaxation. Say good birdie and back off. Wait a few minutes go do something else. Then repeat. Maybe you can move slightest closer this time or still the same distance . Keep doing off and on . The goal is for the bird to realize you respect her body language and comfort level . That she doesn't have to escalate things for you to pay attention . And also this should allow you to get closer and closer without big reactions.

Then hopefully you will eventually be able to walk up say hi hand a treat or put a treat in a special treat only dish and then walk away .
And progress to have them come towards you or a spot you indicates fot a treat.

Shaping behavior in small ways can lead to big gains. But it takes time and a fluid reading of your bird.

Doing foraging together can be hands off way to positively interact . And give her a different job to do than attack you. Maybe use a TV table or small side table even with the lower level of her play stand. Push it up next to the play stand. Get a treat a single seed works great, place on the table and out a few straps if cut up paper over it. Tell her get the treat, back up enough for her to be comfortable. Brag like crazy when she does. Repeat. Then give a break. Next time make it a little different or a little harder like lots if shredded paper in a big pile. Over time fast or slow depending on her you can make really elaborate . You can put a seed in a slightest waded up paper. Once she learns to unwrap these. You can start leaving them on her play stand or in her Cage for her to find. You can have lots of fun and be creative , and they can really get into it and expend mental energy figure stuff out.

Always such good advice. I like the bubble bit. Good to know.
.

 

[MissMac]

Sorry it is being so trying for you. I have Missy and Gracie, both 5 months old. I hand reared Missy but the breeder did Gracie, clipped her wings too so I am having to familiarise myself with Gracie and it's pretty hit and miss. I was wondering of there was anything in the cage/play gym area that could appear to Blue as a nest? I have only just combined my girls cage with their play gym and I wonder if they consider their cage as their nest and are therefore territorial over it? I haven't had any issues so far but I have only just today got all of it built, (Toys aren't even on it yet) even tho their cage as been within their new complex for three days now. Maybe try and see what would happen if you separated Blue's cage from her play area? Just a thought but I'm defo no expert.

 

[GigiDutreix]

Sorry it is being so trying for you. I have Missy and Gracie, both 5 months old. I hand reared Missy but the breeder did Gracie, clipped her wings too so I am having to familiarise myself with Gracie and it's pretty hit and miss. I was wondering of there was anything in the cage/play gym area that could appear to Blue as a nest? I have only just combined my girls cage with their play gym and I wonder if they consider their cage as their nest and are therefore territorial over it? I haven't had any issues so far but I have only just today got all of it built, (Toys aren't even on it yet) even tho their cage as been within their new complex for three days now. Maybe try and see what would happen if you separated Blue's cage from her play area? Just a thought but I'm defo no expert.

I will try that, thank you!!

 

[GigiDutreix]

Beautiful birdie @@ great cage.

Frustrating situation. Really seems like you have done great for working with a fearful pretty untame parrot.

I'm trying to think of articles or links that might help....

Target training comes to mind first, have you tried that?

Then there is bubble training , maybe it's called different things. But essentially you come towards you bird in calm relaxed way. Watch closely ( but sly like a spy) pause as soon as you see the slightest focus in you, do not go so far that the bird moves away or attacks that's going way to far. Hold the position, untill focus is off you and slightest relaxation. Say good birdie and back off. Wait a few minutes go do something else. Then repeat. Maybe you can move slightest closer this time or still the same distance . Keep doing off and on . The goal is for the bird to realize you respect her body language and comfort level . That she doesn't have to escalate things for you to pay attention . And also this should allow you to get closer and closer without big reactions.

Then hopefully you will eventually be able to walk up say hi hand a treat or put a treat in a special treat only dish and then walk away .
And progress to have them come towards you or a spot you indicates fot a treat.

Shaping behavior in small ways can lead to big gains. But it takes time and a fluid reading of your bird.

Doing foraging together can be hands off way to positively interact . And give her a different job to do than attack you. Maybe use a TV table or small side table even with the lower level of her play stand. Push it up next to the play stand. Get a treat a single seed works great, place on the table and out a few straps if cut up paper over it. Tell her get the treat, back up enough for her to be comfortable. Brag like crazy when she does. Repeat. Then give a break. Next time make it a little different or a little harder like lots if shredded paper in a big pile. Over time fast or slow depending on her you can make really elaborate . You can put a seed in a slightest waded up paper. Once she learns to unwrap these. You can start leaving them on her play stand or in her Cage for her to find. You can have lots of fun and be creative , and they can really get into it and expend mental energy figure stuff out.

I am gonna absolutely gonna try target training again. I got a parrot trainer clicker, and she is already kind of vibing with it.
I do wanna do some foraging together! That sounds like a lot of fun.

Thank you for the advice!!

 

[GigiDutreix]

This is a hard one. Usually, I would lead with more patience. I would have lost all of that before two years I'm sure.

IRN seem to be a more difficult bird and they just need that much more attention. It took over a year and then a shelter in place order to get me and Mango as close as I think we can be. Mine was 5 years old when I got him and came bonded with a cockatiel. For a good part of the first year he bit me plenty and would lunge at me when I came around. At that point, I had him mostly used to me, but every so often he would still take a nip at me.

I will say that I observed that he was trained early on to step up from the back side, and I that is a good idea for IRN, who have a tendency to lead with their beak anyway.

Anyway, Mango would come around me a lot during the days when I was home and we would spend hours together, him on my shoulder, monitor, or back of my chair, or crawling around my hands. Sometimes he would give me sweet nibbles on my ear and bow, demanding scritches.

Well, then I had to return to work and my time with Mango is much more limited. I've observed this year that some of his aggression is returning and I've had a couple more occasions to bleed. He's still a sweet bird and often wants to be with me. I just have to be more observant.

And that was a key for me and Mango. I learned to recognize her looks and got better at avoiding conflict with him. Sometimes just noticing he does not want to step up right now and giving him just a couple minutes of space, or approaching it in another way was rewarded.

Look carefully at how her feathers puff or are pulled tight, the angle her head is cocked, her demeanor, and what she's been saying to you. I recognized at least 4 different inflections in Mango's basic whistle call, and those mean something, as subtle as they are.

I think it's good to make eye contact. I bet she's looking at you every time. I would often look with just one eye though since I read that two close eyes looking straight on appears like a typical predator to them.

I think Laura has good advise with target training. Some kind of challenge/reward activity.

I hope I can get to the point where I don't get nipped ha ha.

Thank you for this advice!! I really appreciate it. This is extremely helpful <3

 

[GigiDutreix]

Sorry it is being so trying for you. I have Missy and Gracie, both 5 months old. I hand reared Missy but the breeder did Gracie, clipped her wings too so I am having to familiarise myself with Gracie and it's pretty hit and miss. I was wondering of there was anything in the cage/play gym area that could appear to Blue as a nest? I have only just combined my girls cage with their play gym and I wonder if they consider their cage as their nest and are therefore territorial over it? I haven't had any issues so far but I have only just today got all of it built, (Toys aren't even on it yet) even tho their cage as been within their new complex for three days now. Maybe try and see what would happen if you separated Blue's cage from her play area? Just a thought but I'm defo no expert.

This is pictures of her cage, if that helps? I don't think there's anything nesting?

(ignore the mess lol, her weekly cleaning is tomorrow ha ha)

 

[MissMac]

I will try that, thank you!!

Please let me know how it goes. I do wonder what happened with he former owner... like she wasn't even named.... one has to wonder.
Does she spend any time on the floor? Just seeing the loose paper there... my girls love paper... the bigger the better....
I'm sure you have been told to add more toys, more interactive toys like foraging toys... toys she can easily find pleasure in destroying. You sort of have to overload the toy department... at least that is what I have found with my two girls... their tree/cage complex looks like someone threw up toys all over it. Eye sore for me and yet Missy (the one I hand reared) still prefers to play with anything I am "playing with" than her toys. Yesterday I gave them both an uncooked pasta wheel.... they enjoyed making a mess of them. Sure they ate some of it and sure it might swell in the stomach, but the amount they ate wouldn't have been anything to worry about... they just loved destroying them and being a wheel shape meant that they could hold them easily.
I know this isn't territorial related but it could be her way of telling you she is bored and she might fear that you coming close to the cage might mean you taking away something she enjoys or something she feels she doesn't have enough of???
I'm just trying to think like a bird here.
I certainly am not any kind of IRN master. My girls are both still young, I've only had them for 5 months odd, (And I hand reared Missy)and they are the first IRN's I've ever had, so we are "winging it" excuse the pun.
I have found that they're not morning birds and both wake up cranky - on the wrong side of the perch if you will, so I tread carefully with them until they're ready to spend time with me. Some days they're fine to let me offer a friendly finger for them to step out onto and others... they go full throttle to bite said finger... I am slowly learning the cues and glues of their behaviour. Is there a set time of day you replace the water? Maybe there is a set time of day she will be happier to allow you to do that? Is there anyway you can access the water bowl thru the cage sides? My cage has these little gate like things you lift up to get to the food and water bowls so I don't have to go into it as such - until I do a cleaning but they aren't worried about me doing that so I am lucky there.
Do you know her birth date? Like maybe there is a behaviour that comes at a certain age with IRN's? Again, just guessing it.
I also emailed BirdTricks to ask for advice... [email protected] and I got some. Not from Jamie or Dave but from a lovely lady staffer. It helped... it really did. And I'm not dissing this forum but there are other forums out there... I think there is a website too, strictly for IRN's... found this one Indian Ringneck Forum
Lastly I just want to say she is your girl now so things that other IRN's or any parrot owners alike suggest to you or the rights and wrongs - beautiful Blue is your girl and she hasn't read the book on how to be... Blue... she is winging it too, so together, you will have to adapted any suggestions or advice to fit your collective team, as you learn... together, but you already know this. You've had her company for two years now and she's still fighting fit (lol, sorry) so you are no way at fault, so never think that... I admit I often think that for myself.
How does it go when you are working on your art? I too am an artist (retired) and Missy simply has to help... I can't work on anything with her around, she has to add her touch.... even finished displayed work gets the Missy treatment... my two fake Bonsai's for example.... she pruned them both...
Again please keep me informed.... even if you find out some little thing, some little "Blue" thing, as I need all the help I can get with these two.
All the best. x

 

[GigiDutreix]

Please let me know how it goes. I do wonder what happened with he former owner... like she wasn't even named.... one has to wonder.
Does she spend any time on the floor? Just seeing the loose paper there... my girls love paper... the bigger the better....
I'm sure you have been told to add more toys, more interactive toys like foraging toys... toys she can easily find pleasure in destroying. You sort of have to overload the toy department... at least that is what I have found with my two girls... their tree/cage complex looks like someone threw up toys all over it. Eye sore for me and yet Missy (the one I hand reared) still prefers to play with anything I am "playing with" than her toys. Yesterday I gave them both an uncooked pasta wheel.... they enjoyed making a mess of them. Sure they ate some of it and sure it might swell in the stomach, but the amount they ate wouldn't have been anything to worry about... they just loved destroying them and being a wheel shape meant that they could hold them easily.
I know this isn't territorial related but it could be her way of telling you she is bored and she might fear that you coming close to the cage might mean you taking away something she enjoys or something she feels she doesn't have enough of???
I'm just trying to think like a bird here.
I certainly am not any kind of IRN master. My girls are both still young, I've only had them for 5 months odd, (And I hand reared Missy)and they are the first IRN's I've ever had, so we are "winging it" excuse the pun.
I have found that they're not morning birds and both wake up cranky - on the wrong side of the perch if you will, so I tread carefully with them until they're ready to spend time with me. Some days they're fine to let me offer a friendly finger for them to step out onto and others... they go full throttle to bite said finger... I am slowly learning the cues and glues of their behaviour. Is there a set time of day you replace the water? Maybe there is a set time of day she will be happier to allow you to do that? Is there anyway you can access the water bowl thru the cage sides? My cage has these little gate like things you lift up to get to the food and water bowls so I don't have to go into it as such - until I do a cleaning but they aren't worried about me doing that so I am lucky there.
Do you know her birth date? Like maybe there is a behaviour that comes at a certain age with IRN's? Again, just guessing it.
I also emailed BirdTricks to ask for advice... [email protected] and I got some. Not from Jamie or Dave but from a lovely lady staffer. It helped... it really did. And I'm not dissing this forum but there are other forums out there... I think there is a website too, strictly for IRN's... found this one Indian Ringneck Forum
Lastly I just want to say she is your girl now so things that other IRN's or any parrot owners alike suggest to you or the rights and wrongs - beautiful Blue is your girl and she hasn't read the book on how to be... Blue... she is winging it too, so together, you will have to adapted any suggestions or advice to fit your collective team, as you learn... together, but you already know this. You've had her company for two years now and she's still fighting fit (lol, sorry) so you are no way at fault, so never think that... I admit I often think that for myself.
How does it go when you are working on your art? I too am an artist (retired) and Missy simply has to help... I can't work on anything with her around, she has to add her touch.... even finished displayed work gets the Missy treatment... my two fake Bonsai's for example.... she pruned them both...
Again please keep me informed.... even if you find out some little thing, some little "Blue" thing, as I need all the help I can get with these two.
All the best. x

So her former owner bought her at a pet store and was kept in her cage pretty much all the time. Blue lived with two conures and had clipped wings. Never had medical records of her so when I first got her, I got her in a vet and her medical records are all updated and stuff.

Baby blue never goes on the floor thankfully. I also just went to get her a bunch of new toys today, which I think improved her mood a bit. As for her water-- I usually change her water in the evenings. I might try to maybe more midday. It's hard for me to sometimes judge when is a good time, because sometimes her mood swings hard sometimes.

I do know her hatch date! She was born April 10th.

And yeah! It's been hard-- she's had to move a lot in her first year with me, but she's a really quick adaptor. As long as I'm there it's usually good enough. I'm a digital artist! I'm working to be an animator as well.

Also the advice has been helping. She is calming down slightly-- though lately she's been developing this bad habit where she doesn't want me to leave SO BADLY that she will try to fly out my door. She knows that if she flies to my head before I reach the door it gets me to stop. I have to carry something she really doesn't like with me so I can actually leave my room lol.

 

[MissMac]

So her former owner bought her at a pet store and was kept in her cage pretty much all the time. Blue lived with two conures and had clipped wings. Never had medical records of her so when I first got her, I got her in a vet and her medical records are all updated and stuff.

Baby blue never goes on the floor thankfully. I also just went to get her a bunch of new toys today, which I think improved her mood a bit. As for her water-- I usually change her water in the evenings. I might try to maybe more midday. It's hard for me to sometimes judge when is a good time, because sometimes her mood swings hard sometimes.

I do know her hatch date! She was born April 10th.

And yeah! It's been hard-- she's had to move a lot in her first year with me, but she's a really quick adaptor. As long as I'm there it's usually good enough. I'm a digital artist! I'm working to be an animator as well.

Also the advice has been helping. She is calming down slightly-- though lately she's been developing this bad habit where she doesn't want me to leave SO BADLY that she will try to fly out my door. She knows that if she flies to my head before I reach the door it gets me to stop. I have to carry something she really doesn't like with me so I can actually leave my room lol.

I am so happy to hear you mention that she doesn't like you leaving her... you are her mate now so I feel things will start to improve.

Did the previous owner have her for most of her young life or was she shuffled around between owners?

You have had her for two years, so we know she is at least two years old but do you know how old she is? I wonder if knowing this, could help somewhat, but how I just don't know. I am too new to IRN's.

I think too, part of this is a learning experience for her too... Do you know if she was kept in the cage the whole time when with the previous owners, or was she allowed to fly free? Freedom can be scary - just saying. I am thinking that considering how defensive she was to her cage that she wasn't let out is any time at all, so, in a way, she had to relearn flying... at least flying distances longer than the cage.

One thing I am now doing, is thinking like them.
I put myself in an IRN body and mind... try to think and see things from their perspective, and that really helps. I am learning more easily now, how and why they react as they do. Why did she bite, why won't she leave that alone (a BIG issue with Missy - she is into EVERYTHING and it drives me bonkers), and even learning the particular colours and toys they seem to prefer and, if possible, understanding why.
Instead of me wanting them to become more "human", I am becoming more IRN. I've never had that issue with any of the other parrots I have had over the years - it seems IRN's are on another level and at times, it is draining.

You work full time and I am retired so it is harder for you to have the time to take every aspect of Blue in... I personally think you have done a brilliant job with everything you have done for her and your relationship to date, and commend you for it.

April 10th was her hatch date.... well done. I don't know the hatch date for Missy or Gracie. All I know is a rough estimate.

Keep up the good work, feel proud of your efforts and keep me posted how things are going please. I am learning from you too.