Introduction to Uglow and Amateur Questions

[Uglow]

Hello everyone,
I have to really apologize for the length of this post. I also wanted to say thank you for posting all of your useful insight on these amazing creatures.

My wife and I picked up Uglow on December 29, 2015. He was born on September 23, 2015. So just over 3 months old. And we've had him about a month now. I took him to an avian vet the day I picked him up and he checked out perfectly. I read Katy McElroy's Eclectus Parrots and did some online research prior to bringing him home.
I work from home and my wife works the usual 8-5 and does schooling a few days a week.

CAGE AND PLACEMENT:
Since I work from home, Uglow spends his entire day out of the cage except for the occasional trip to run errands or when he voluntarily goes in to eat, drink or play with his inside toys. We've also left him home alone in his cage when we've gone out to do joint errands or short trips to get a bite to eat or see family or friends. He sleeps in his cage as well.
Cage size:
his cage is small. I'm a little annoyed that the shop recommended a 24" x 24" x with an interior height of 50". It also sports a quarter circle face so it's not even square. It also has a play area on top.
Cage placement:
My work station is in the kitchen and it's where I spend most of my day. And the only other place we could place his cage is in the living room. We opted for the kitchen. This way I'm around him all day and can supervise and play with him and we don't keep him up all night with the TV or my wife and I talking in the living room. The kitchen is also the brightest room in the apartment. I cage him when we cook. we've eliminated all the toxic cookware.
Cage Behavior:
Uglow's only been here a month and has developed more confidence but he's still pretty much glued to the top of his cage. He has a tree a few feet away and a tabletop tree a few feet away from that. He'll occasionally go to his tree but rarely goes to the table top one. he's got toys everywhere, little foraging things, different perches. but mostly he likes his cage. If I take him to the living room to hang out he flies back to his cage.
My questions:
-Do you think this cage size is ok for a month or so until I get him a new one?
-Should I have both cages available to him until I remove the old one or is a quick switch ok?
-Do you think I should get one with a play top or one without so he maybe explores his tree more.?
-Do you guys think we made the right choice by placing his cage in the kitchen?


DIET
Uglow was weened onto pellets but he was familiar with some fruits and veggies. My vet recommended that I keep him on a good organic pellet diet with some fruits and veggies on the side. It's no secret that you guys disagree. So I've gotten Uglow an organic, nonGMO pellet with no artificial colors or added vitamins. He loves them and that's great for the time being. I've also immediately introduced him to a ton of new fresh foods. He tolerates sweet potato, carrots, acorn and butternut squash, apples, pears, guava, papaya, green beans, black eyed peas, green peas, snap peas and lentils. He doesn't like rice, any citrus fruit, sprouts or corn....unless it's popped popcorn. He's terrified and will attack raspberries, blueberries, blackberries, kale, beats, beat greens, carrot greens, and dandelion leaves. I've tried mashing, dicing, skewers, eating them in front of him, warming them, cooking them, giving them to him whole, hiding them, chopping them. He won't go near 'em. They're all organic, nonGMO and thoroughly washed. I want him to eat the fresh stuff but I also don't want to starve him. Given the choice he goes for pellets. I've tried putting a few pellets in his dish and he mainly just picks them out and leaves the fresh stuff a lone. He'll bite into some of the stuff he tolerates but that's about it.
As for water, the vet recommended distilled water. But I've read to use bottled, mineral water. So I've been alternating since I don't know what's best.
My questions:
-Is there anything else I can do to get Uglow to prefer fresh foods?
-What about the stuff he's "afraid" of but needs in his diet, like fresh greens?
-How much do you guys feed your Eclectus? Uglow barely skims his veggies, picking out mostly beans and a few bites of the stuff he "tolerates" then goes to where his pellet dish usually is and calls out until I give him some.
-what type of water do you guys use?

 

[Uglow]

FEATHER AND SKIN HEALTH
None of the reading I did prior to bringing Uglow home mentioned humidity. I finally stumbled upon it here and went out yesterday to get him a humidifier. I've noticed that Uglow has a bit of dandruff and I'm thinking maybe this is related to the dry air in our apartment. Further, I'm unaware of how much time they're supposed to be preening. He seems to be doing it a lot but maybe that's normal. I haven't noticed any colored feathers anywhere but he does seem to lose about 10 down feathers a day. I have no idea if he's losing his baby feathers...if that's even a thing or if it's normal to lose that many down feathers or if this is the first stage of plucking. I've been taking Uglow into the bathroom when I shower so he get's a bit of shower steam and he seems to like it while hanging out on the cabinet door in there, chatting it up. I was told to get him wet at least every other day so I got him a spray bottle and a shower perch. He hated his first shower and his second, HATES the mist from the spray bottle, doesn't like to get off my hand when I get the kitchen sink ready for a bath. His third shower was a complete success. He flapped around and scratched his head and shook his tale. He LOVED the hair dryer and flapped his wings and stuff. The third, forth and fifth shower was as successful. But now he hates it again. he holds his feathers tight against his body. looks at me with puppy dog eyes and tries desperately to come to me or he'll just sit under the water and just sort of "take it" showing no enjoyment whatsoever. He's no longer a fan of the hair dyer either. just sits there and waits for it to be over. Today I set up his shower perch higher and showered in there with him and I tried to make it looks like I was having an awesome time in the shower and he enjoyed watching me but as soon as he got wet, same thing, held his feathers tight and tried to avoid the water. So I've had him for about a month and he's really only enjoyed getting wet like 3 or 4 times...that's out of about 25 attempts.
My questions:
-How much time do your parrots spend preening and how often do they lose down feathers? Is this a sign of something I should be concerned about?
-Any advice you have on getting my boy to start enjoying his baths/showers?
-being only 4 months old, when should I expect his first molt?


GETTING HIM TO COME OUT OF HIS SHELL
Uglow is SUPER gentle and pretty timid. He tends to fear a lot of stuff and the slightest sound or movement either gets him to freeze or do his what I like call "what WHAT?" move, where he ducks and then extends his neck out super far to see what's going on? He mainly sticks to his cage and occasionally his tree. And he mainly likes to be up high. I don't think he's ever gone below the halfway point of his cage and he's never touched the ground in our apartment voluntarily. We got Uglow with his wings clipped, though he can fly with a certain level of accuracy but sometimes he overshoots his destination. I plan on never clipping him again. I've seen him crash way too many times. Luckily he's super active in and out of his cage. He's got a lot of toys and perches to climb and play with. He will occasionally hang out in the living room with us but never wants to leave our hands or shoulders. He just wants to be on us. I've brought his tree in there, toys, treats with no luck. He's either relaxing on one of us or looking for his cage. In fact that's one of the ways I get him to exercise his wings a bit. I walk with him in the living room. hold him up and he flies to his cage and repeat it a few times until he's either tired of flying and just points with his head towards the cage or decides maybe he'll just hang out on me in the living room. He also doesn't like table tops, the coffee table, the floor, the couch or the bed. he just wants his cage or a perch of some kind. I don't want to force him to do anything but I feel like he should feel a little more comfortable around the apartment by now. I've also noticed on a few occasions when he just starts going nuts. He'll be playing on his cage and then starts looking up, down, left, right, spins around, attacks a toy, preens a feather, jumps back around, attacks another toy, growls a little, flaps his wings, preens a feather, growls, bites his perch, attacks a toy, preens his foot and then freezes. It's like he's fighting a group of invisible ninjas.
My questions:
-Is being timid and afraid of surroundings normal behavior for a young Eclectus?
-Do you have any suggestions on how I can get him to be a bit more adventurous?
-Um...what's up with the invisible ninjas?


STEPPING UP AND GENERAL TRUST
Uglow knows us and likes coming to us when we come to his cage. He looks for us whenever he ends up on the floor or when he feels like he's in trouble. He get's excited when I get out the target training stick and clicker. I would say he steps up about 15% of the time on command. I know I'm not supposed to press on his belly or force him so I've been basically giving him a treat every time I need him to step up. He has only attempted to bite us a few times and it's always been while he's on his cage and it's always when we need him to step up. He has no problem stepping up when he needs help getting off the ladder or to go to his tree or back to his cage. He's basically using us as a mode of transportation, pointing in the direction he wants to go with his head. I also want Uglow to allow me to touch him a bit more. he likes his chest, neck and beak gently rubbed and lets me know with a gentle tap of his beak when he's had enough. But I do want him to be comfortable with me touching his wings and feet for example for future harness training and toe nail trims. MY HANDS REALLY NEED his toe nails trimmed. At the moment he gently pushing my hand or fingers away when I try to get near his wings. Sometimes he's fine with me gently resting my hand on him but it's usually when he's away from his cage and he's trying to figure out how to get back to it...so he's totally distracted.
My questions:
-I know he's only about 4 months old and I've only had him a month. Am i on the right track with his training or should he have been more comfortable with us by now?
-Is there anything I've mentioned that I'm doing wrong?

Welp, if you've read this entire post, you have way too much time on your hands but I thank you. Any advice or links you guys might have would be greatly appreciated. I love my boy and want him to be as happy and healthy as possible.
Thanks again.

 

[JerseyWendy]

I would not place the cage directly in the kitchen. I believe a cage no less than 3' wide X 2' deep would suit Uglow fine. No need to have both cages available for him. If you wanted to, you could use the smaller one as either a travel cage or a sleep cage. None of my cages are playtops, I have all dometops. I use 2 combined Java trees as my fids' play area. For me this works well. However, since Uglow is your only bird, having several play areas away from the cage is certainly great.

You asked for some links, here you go:
http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/52737-so-you-think-you-want-eclectus.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...afe-fresh-foods-toxic-food-lists-sprouts.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/57416-sprouting-made-easy.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/22594-cook-portion-freeze-my-recipe.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/34185-slop-chop-mix-ala-wendy-s-kitchen.html

I use bottled water for my fids.

As for getting him to try fresh greens, have you tried eating them in front of him, and making a big deal over how yummy they are?

Is Uglow harness trained?

Sorry, I didn't answer all your questions.

 

[Uglow]

Thanks for taking the time Wendy. I really appreciate it.
Yes I've read through those links. I've spent a lot of time here.
and yes I've eaten all his food in front of him. My fear is since I want him to eat, I eventually give him pellets when he doesn't eat his fresh stuff and perhaps he's figured it out. "if I hold out, i'll get my pellets."

Uglow isn't harness trained. I've been trying to get him comfortable with my hands around his wings and stuff first.

Also, please don't apologize. My posts were obnoxiously long. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right by my boy.

thanks

 

[Terry57]

Uglow is a beautiful boy
My Ekko loves a whole leaf with stem of kale, and will munch on it until it's gone. I wonder if you could make it like a toy if he would be interested in it?
Getting him to eat sweet potatoes took a little creativity. I take the sweet potato and wash it, then pierce it several times. I coat the outside with a little vegetable oil and cover it with cayenne and cinnamon, wrap it in foil and bake until it's done. Then I remove peel and cut into chucks, adding a little more of the spices. It is always a hit, especially when I dip the chunks in red chili flakes..lol
He also loves brown rice with curry, and any pasta or quinoa, as long as I add curry, red chili flakes or cayenne.

Ekko has always been a good eater, and will try anything. Hopefully your boy starts trying and liking new things too.

All I have to do to get Ekko i the mood for a bath is turn on a Youtube video of either a vacuum running or a thunderstorm. I can then mist him until he is soaked through, with him really getting into it.

Ekko also does that Ekkie freeze...playing like crazy, then frozen like a statue.

 

[DexMom]

If I put greens in my Dexter's dish, he will pick through the food and toss them right out before eating anything else. He doesn't even want them in the bowl.

But, I've found a trick to get them in him. I take whole kale leaves, swiss or rainbow chard leaves or romaine lettuce leaves and weave them through the bars of his cage. He has a ball tearing them up and eats a good bit of them in the process. Yes, there is a lot of waste on the bottom of the cage, but at least he's eating them .

 

[Birdman666]

Personally, I don't feel Eckies do well on pelleted diets... but if you're getting the ones that are specifically formulated for Eckies, then hopefully he will be okay. Just watch out for any signs of Toe Tap. With eckies I always recommend keeping a food diary, of what he was fed, just in case Toe Tap comes up.

"Invisible Ninja's" are entirely normal for young parrots. They're goofy that way.

Gradual desensitization training is the best way to get them over their fears. You gradually expose them to more and more startle stimulous over time until nothing spooks them anymore. First you have to develop that bond, and trust.

 

[Anansi]

Hello, and welcome to Parrot Forum!

Haha! That's quite the question list you have there. Okay, let's see. The cage is definitely too small and should be replaced with one significantly larger as soon as possible.

My cages are play tops, but I've come to regret not getting dome tops. Dome tops allow so much more room for toy placement, which is very important for times they are left alone. The greater variety of toys available to them, the less likely it is that they will get bored in your absence. Good tree stands can easily replace the play tops... and then some.

You're painting with a broad brush when you say "we" disagree with using pellets. I personally do, insofar as dealing with my own flock goes, since I am able to provide all that my ekkies need with a fresh, all natural diet. Especially given the fact that there are correlations between toe-tapping/wing-flipping and pellet-based diets/supplements. But some argue that there are pellets out there that have gotten the balance right, and that the problem with supplements is actually to be found in over-supplementation.

Again, pellets and supplements aren't my cup of tea, but seeing as how some of our members have used them and report naught but good results, I thought I'd paint you a bit of the whole picture. Then you can make your own informed decision.

As for getting him to try more fruits and veggies, some of it will just take time. The ideal situation would've been for him to have been exposed to fresh foods while in the weaning process. But obviously, that ship has sailed. So you'll need to teach him to accept fruits and veggies as food, too. You'll do this by frequently offering a large variety of fruits and veggies to him. Sure, there'll be waste. But think of it as an investment.

You can try preparing foods in different ways, as Terry suggested. Also different sizes. Some ekkies prefer large chunks of food, others small. Some prefer their food raw, others cooked. Lightly sautéed fruits and veggies in coconut oil drives mine absolutely nuts! Also, pomegranates mixed liberally into the chop makes nearly anything palatable to them.

Another trick is making oatmeal for them and throwing in some of the more important veggies and fruits in there. Dandelion, carrots and sweet potato are HUGE! Get them in there and hope for the best!

I actually use tap, as it's reportedly good where I am, or bottled water if we're somewhere else. I don't use distilled, as it's missing some of the minerals they need.

The time spent preening depends on the individual bird. My female ekkie, Maya, is all diva, and preens about as often as that title would imply. Jolly, my make ekkie, preens about as much as is absolutely necessary, but is nowhere near so fastidious as Maya.

As for showers, just experiment. I shower both of mine, rather than mist. Jolly loves showers whether the water is warm or cool, but Maya only enjoys warm showers. My dearly departed Bixby, on the other hand, preferred cool showers. Maya and Jolly both prefer medium force, about what you'd feel from a soaking rain.

But, love it or hate it, they have to get those baths. A good soaking, too.

Down feathers are lost rather regularly. So not necessarily a cause for concern.

He's new to your home, so some timidity isn't really a big deal. As he comes to bond with you, he'll want to be with you, more. I call Jolly my little face-hugger. Hahaha! And both would rather be on me than anywhere else. Just spend time with him, offering him treats and training him. Training time = bonding time. Done right, he'll look forward to training with you.

Work hard on the target and step up training. These are important. The key is complete consistency. Try working with him between meals, when he'll be the most food motivated. And work on getting him to associate the performance of requested behaviors with tasty treats and effusive praise. Eventually, his step ups and target training will get to 100%. (Or somewhere close.)

For his toenails, I'd suggest a good pedi-perch. They work wonders. I don't even get my birds' nails trimmed anymore. Between their pedi-perches and natural wood perches, trims are unnecessary.

Chest, neck and beak are about all you should be looking to pet, as the back and region under the wings can lead to arousal in your bird. But in terms of being able to handle him everywhere, you just have to work on increasing his comfort level with you. Don't push too far, too fast, but rather be sure to make attempts regularly enough that he becomes used to it and sees it as normal. Aldo make sure to reward him for allowing you to, say, lift his wing. Just a little at a time. My birds are at the point now where a touch of my finger will prompt them to lift their wings high for me. But they were never rushed. Just taught to see it as a good thing.

Keep working with your guy. Patience, persistence and consistency. He'll prove very much worth the effort.

 

[Uglow]

Wow, thanks guys so much for the all the advice.

Thanks Terry57. I'll try adding a touch of those spices and see if I can get him a bit more motivated. Fruit, sweet potato, squash and beans he's pretty ok with. the greens are what he really hates. I tried making them into burritos today with pellets inside and he threw them right out immediately. Ha.
I'll try out some other things and post anything the was successful.
I'm not sure if the thunderstorm on youtube was the reason but Uglow had a freaking blast today in the shower. Thanks for that.

Thanks DexMom, that's a great idea. I'll give that a go in the morning.

Thanks Birdman666, Yeah, I've been trying to get him comfortable with raw and cooked foods before I eliminate or minimize pellets. I think what I have him on now is pretty decent until he can graduate to better foods.
He seems to be already more comfortable today. Yeah, I figured it would take some time, I was just worried maybe he was taking too long cuz I was doing something wrong. Thanks for advice.

Thanks Anansi. Yup new cage is on it's way. went with a dome since he already has a tree and a half.
Regarding the general consensus about pellets vs. fresh food, I hope I didn't come off in a negative way. I just meant from my general reading that fresh food seems to be the preferred option. And that I'm trying to get my boy to try more fresh stuff. But thank you for pointing out that others have had success with pellets as well.
I'll try out all of your suggestions and see what sticks. I didn't even know oatmeal was an acceptable food for them. I'll give that a shot.
Uglow finally enjoyed his shower today.
Good to know about the down feathers and preening.
And thanks for the rest of the advice about training, where to pet, getting him acclimated and stuff.

Thanks again guys. I'll keep you posted on Uglow's progress...and mine.

 

[Anansi]

You didn't come off negative at all, actually. As I'd said, I fall firmly on the fresh foods side of the debate over all the potential issues to be found with pellet-based diets. But in the interests of full disclosure, I just wanted to mention that there are members who do believe in the benefits of their particular pellet brands.

Oh, and as for oatmeal, just make sure you're using unsweetened.

 

[Birdman666]

Yeah, toe tap seems to be related to over supplementation.

A LOT of these pelets just have too much in them... it's been over ten years since I fostered my eckie, but back then, we just didn't feed pellets to eckies...

There are pellets out there specifically formulated for Eckies and if you're gonna feed pellets, that's what I'd go with.

There are certain foods that can also trigger toe tap if you feed to much to them. Their diet sensitive birds, so that's the key to keeping them healthy...

The behavior stuff generally works itself out with time, and trust, and bonding.

Birds that get handled become tame and interactive.

Birds that don't, DON'T... NOT EXACTLY A DIFFICULT CONCEPT!

Biting birds generally need to be handled MORE not less...

 

[Uglow]

Thanks Anansi. I'll give oatmeal a try.
Thanks Birdman666.

 

[Terry57]

Awww, he was really enjoying his bath, no matter what the reason!
Seeing the look on his face made my day