Introducing my budgie to our puppy

[turtleshoe]

So I have a year old budgie parakeet I have had him since August of 2019. I have been living at an apartment and going to college but moved back home for a few months due to the recent COVID-19 shutting down my university. The problem arose when my parents got a 11 week old Australian Shephard puppy last weekend 3/13/19. Ghibli (my budgie) is not very social. However back at my apartment he is used to my roommates 3 budgies as well as her old shiatsu dog roaming the apartment and interacting with him regularly. Often coming into my room specifically to play with him.

The new puppy here at home has a pretty chill demeanor but is very curious about Ghibli. She does not chase animals in the yard but rather will watch them for as long as we let her. Whenever she is in the same room as Ghibli and his cage she howls at the cage.

What would be the best way to introduce them safely? It is looking more and more like I won't be able to go back to uni until august and would like to have some piece of mind that they won't try to kill each other.

Thus far I have let the dog smell Ghibli's cage (safely of course) and have given her one 5 minute session right before bed when she is tired on a leash for her to look around the cage and examine it without her getting close.

ANY info or suggestions are helpful! Thank you!

 

[GaleriaGila]

Welcome!

I am so glad you are reaching out, and with an EXCELLENT question.
Please assume that you can never trust the predator (dog) with prey (bird). No matter how beloved they are to you (or even to each other some of the time), the situation is a tragedy waiting to happen. We see so many heart-breaking tales here... so, so many.

So enjoy your darlings safely. Thank you for asking so open-mindedly.

 

[Scott]

Welcome to you and your budgies, refugees from the horrible viral scourge.

Please use extreme caution with a small (or any sized) bird and dogs. Avians are prey animals and extraordinarily vulnerable to hostile or even curious mammals inflicting deliberate or unintentional harm. The size differential argues against any sort of direct physical interaction. Understand the most docile and seemingly uninterested dog can and will snap with dire consequences absent warning. Oh, there are exceptions, but sadly our Bereavement forum is filled with regrets.

All of that said, it is possible to safely integrate birds and dogs under the same roof. Simple, foolproof and repeatable precautions can shield a budgie from direct physical contact with dogs.

 

[Cardinal]

I don't think predatory mammals and birds should be in the same household, let alone same room. It is not a matter of "IF" but a matter of "WHEN" an accident will happen.

 

[charmedbyekkie]

Let me post this link:
http://www.parrotforums.com/quakers/84619-my-dog-attacked-my-parrot.html

Long story short - live together no issue 7 years, then attacked.


This is a common, common, common theme. You can just search the Bereavement forum here and see how many have similar stories of "my puppy grew up with my parrot - they loved each other and played with each other for years - but then my puppy killed my parrot".

Cute photos, but you never know when instincts kick in.

Good luck!

 

[T00tsyd]

The point is that the puppy and budgie are together. It's already happened and you need help to cope with it. I speak as a lifetime dog owner/trainer so believe I can give some input.
1) NEVER leave dog and bird alone together
2) If you want to give the budgie out of cage time then remove the dog to another room and keep the door closed
3) Over time and I mean 2 years minimum with a pup, it is possible, depending on the dog's adult character, to train the dog to ignore the bird. Even then the first 2 rules still stand. The difference is that as you go to open the cage the dog will leave by itself.
Make rules now and stick to them. Consistency throughout will save you from joining the reams of very sad stories in these circumstances.
Story: I do not have my own dog now but have cared part-time for my daughter's labrador since 8 weeks old. He is now 30 months old and as he sees me go to the cage he gets up and leaves the room. He would love to interact and much as I would now trust him I don't trust Syd or the dog's instinctive reaction if, as is very likely, Syd was to fly at and/or attack the dog. Be consistent, be firm and don't waver however much the puppy uses those terribly sweet puppy eyes.

To stop the pup howling at the bird now. As the howling starts stand up in between the cage and dog. Face the dog, pull yourself up to your full height, put your hands on your hips thus making yourself really impressive. Take a deep breath to relax then do not shout, using a normal but firm voice look the dog in the eye and say 'NO'. Keep looking it in the eye and if it doesn't stop start walking very slowly towards it. Do not speak again. Keep looking at it until it stops and turns away from you or walks away. Stay still until he also relaxes, give quiet praise only when you are sure he has given up. Do not touch him but simply walk away and return to what you were doing. Be prepared to repeat as necessary. It will be worth the effort because the same thing can then be used in many other situations. Practise what you will do before you do it for real so that it becomes natural.

 

[turtleshoe]

Thank you for all the help thus far! My is the son of my roomates bird and was raised with her dog in a small apartment. The birds will fly over and catch a ride on the dog around the house and the dog doesn’t seem to care unless they peck at her face for long durations of time. I understand it is more a matter of when an accident will happen rather than if so I would like to do my best to tech them to safely co habit-ate. I love my bird so so much but don’t know what this virus will mean for me job wise and don’t want to leave either pet in a potentially harmfulness situation.

 

[Betrisher]

I know many people who laugh at me, showing photos of their BFF birds and dogs/cats.

What they don't take into account is the fact that the unpredictable can happen. The bird might get disoriented and fly onto the dog. If it lands on the head and sticks a claw in the dog's eye, what then? Any normal dog would defend itself and there's only one way they know to do that.

During the 'adorable' playtimes, what if birdie nips a bit too hard on a soft part of *****cat's person? Again, any normal cat will defend itself and there's only one way...

What if cat/dog is overexcited and a tad too playful and nips at birdie just as it might nip at you? Again, any normal animal...

There's no grey area in this: either things are going along swimmingly or they're not. The only result possible is 'dead bird' and if you love your bird, it's not worth the risk.

 

[Scott]

The birds will fly over and catch a ride on the dog around the house and the dog doesn’t seem to care unless they peck at her face for long durations of time. I understand it is more a matter of when an accident will happen rather than if so I would like to do my best to tech them to safely co habit-ate. I love my bird so so much but don’t know what this virus will mean for me job wise and don’t want to leave either pet in a potentially harmfulness situation.

To be perfectly frank, you cannot permit a bird to ride on a dog and peck the face with any realistic expectation the bird will survive long term. So please, if you understand "it is more a matter of when an accident will happen rather than if..." and you "love (the) bird so much," the behavior must stop effective with the last event. I loathe being so blunt, but do yourself a favor and check out our Bereavement Forum to understand why we are so passionate!

 

[charmedbyekkie]

Aiya, others are sharing enough. I've said my peace - you may risk a few years of trying to cohabitate, then lose out to instincts. If the dog got your bird, how would you feel/cope?

Some people have given up their dogs after it happened.

 

[Flboy]

We have a longtime member that as a child, they had a cherished family crow as a pet! One time when the whole family was sitting in a room with the crow and the big old farm dog, the two were comically playing together. The farm dog accidentally broke the neck of the crow!

 

[turtleshoe]

Thank you for your bluntness! The safety of these animals is paramount and my first concern. I mentioned the riding because my bird was raised by my roomate and exposed to other animals and learned to tolerate them. By the time I got him he was used to a dog being in the house and if either animal go out we could feel better about the safety of both because it wasn't a first for either and neither animal was scared. That being said accidents happen. I am less concerned with them being buddy buddy as I am that both animals have the temperment and exposure to one another that if something happens both animals have a better chance of being unharmed. I have no intention of taking the bird out while the dog is around unless an expert on the subject can give me details on how to do it safely.
I have seen what a "safe" relationship looks like however I only met these animals after they had been living together for a year so I don't quite know how to foster it. It is worth noting that I watched a old dog for a week or so and Ghibli got along fine with him. Neither interacted much though.

 

[turtleshoe]

UPDATE
As the situation changes I will be sharing updates in hopes of informing other pet owners and sharing my experience

So I have been working with the puppy in the room where the bird cage is. The cage is on a table out of reach from the puppy but positioned so that she can see and hear the bird. Whenever she barks at the bird I firmly tell her no and if she hears the bird and stops herself from reacting i.e. lays down and looks at me she is rewarded with a treat. Ghibli for his part is slowly becoming more comfortable with her in the room he has begun coming to the edges of his closed cage to investigate. It is worth noting that neither animal can get to the other and I monitor them both very closely. This is only the first week and they will not be allowed direct contact, as of right now with all the warnings given I just don't feel alright with that right now.

Please keep the advice coming! Any and all tips, warnings and suggestions are welcome! I love both these animals and want to promote a safe and happy lifestyle for both of them!

 

[T00tsyd]

UPDATE
As the situation changes I will be sharing updates in hopes of informing other pet owners and sharing my experience

So I have been working with the puppy in the room where the bird cage is. The cage is on a table out of reach from the puppy but positioned so that she can see and hear the bird. Whenever she barks at the bird I firmly tell her no and if she hears the bird and stops herself from reacting i.e. lays down and looks at me she is rewarded with a treat. Ghibli for his part is slowly becoming more comfortable with her in the room he has begun coming to the edges of his closed cage to investigate. It is worth noting that neither animal can get to the other and I monitor them both very closely. This is only the first week and they will not be allowed direct contact, as of right now with all the warnings given I just don't feel alright with that right now.

Please keep the advice coming! Any and all tips, warnings and suggestions are welcome! I love both these animals and want to promote a safe and happy lifestyle for both of them!

Just be careful that the puppy cannot reach the cage if he jumps up. I don't know how big or old the pup is but I will guarantee that he is capable of moving faster than you if determined and as he grows and goes through the 12 month to 2 yrs teenage tantrums life will be more difficult with the best will in the world. Better that they are not left together. Cages can be knocked over.

 

[chris-md]

Youv'e got a solid beginning. Caution is warranted, for all the reasons described by everyone above. I like, however, that you are doing habituation training with the dog - there is a difference between teaching them to be good neighbors, and attempting to get them to a point where they can "safely" interact, which as described should never happen. Good neighbor/habituation training is always valuable. Keep THAT up to stave off cage jumping, obsession, etc. You can never trust them, but it reduces your stress levels and potential for future issues.

 

[itzjbean]

I have kept my Doberman and cats around my four cockatiels now for 5 years without issue. I do take precautions when birds are out as I don't have a specific bird-proof room, they live in the living room where the dog and cats pass as they please.

I don't go putting my bird on my dog's back but I do allow them out together at the same time. I think it's insensitive to say that birds and dogs/cats cannot live together ever in the same household, you'll end up with a dead bird, etc. I think it's pretty rude and judgmental to say a thing like that. In my personal experience just not an issue of keeping birds with other pets.

I think many of the warnings you get are from members here with strong passions for PARROTS and no other naimlas, while many others (like me) have a love outside parrots. I could never keep just parrots, or keep just dogs. I have to have them all in my life! And no I don't think I'm risking the life of my birds by loving more than just their feathered friends. I would share a super adorable picture of my husband holding one of our cats with the cockatiel on top of husband head, but even though the bird and cat could not even get to each other, it would not be allowed. Harsh rules against birds pictured with other pets, otherwise I would post it.

 

[DaveTX]

I never leave my dogs alone with my macaw. When i am not home they are in another room. When I let her out the dogs are outside or in another room. They do ignore her for the most part and that is my goal.

 

[greytness]

If the puppy is focusing on the bird while barking, your pup likely has a strong prey drive. As other have said, you risk losing your bird in a blink of an eye. I vote for no direct interaction, 100%.

I have 3 German Shepherds and 13 birds. They remain apart at all times whenever the birds are out. Do I trust my German Shepherds to interact with my birds? Not 100%.

 

[Betrisher]

The thing is, what useful reason is there for a person to want the two different species to socialise at any level? It brings no measurable gain to either the dog/cat or the parrot. The only person to gain is the human, who gets to enjoy the cuteness of his creatures, wanting them to play together as 'members of our family'.

Well, they're not! They're companion animals with a healthy set of instincts and reflexes which evolved over millenia and which have been refined to the point where the animal often has no choice.

No one has answered my questions: What if the parrot 'nips' the dog/cat a little too hard and hurts it? What will the dog/cat naturally do?

What if the dog/cat jumps at the parrot or onto its cage? What will the parrot naturally do?

We've all read the procession of stories where 'I was only feet away' or 'I only turned my back for an instant' or 'It was a freak noise that set them off' or 'The kids slammed the door suddenly' or 'He's *never* done that before'. The unthinkable happens at a frighteningly frequent rate!

Another factoid is that dog and cat saliva are immensely toxic to birds, so even if your furry animal simply bites and draws blood, you could be looking at a fatal Pasteurella or Bartonella infection. I spent three weeks in hospital with cat-scratch fever and I can tell you: it *hurts*!

So, with all these good reasons *not* to allow species to intermingle, why would one want to risk it simply for the cuteness index?

 

[Cardinal]

I think many of the warnings you get are from members here with strong passions for PARROTS and no other naimlas, while many others (like me) have a love outside parrots. I could never keep just parrots, or keep just dogs. I have to have them all in my life! And no I don't think I'm risking the life of my birds by loving more than just their feathered friends. I would share a super adorable picture of my husband holding one of our cats with the cockatiel on top of husband head, but even though the bird and cat could not even get to each other, it would not be allowed. Harsh rules against birds pictured with other pets, otherwise I would post it.

I have Strong passion for "PARROTS" but it is not that I do not have any passion for other animals. I love finches and some of the poultry and pheasant group.
And actually I am more of an Aquarium hobbyist than a Bird keeper, from a pet keeping perspective. But the group of Animals I love most- Parrots will always be on top.
I have lost a 2 budgerigars to a Cat and one more that succumbed eventually to a rat bite, and It was a horrible experience which I will never want to go through, and will not want anyone else to go through.

So what I am saying is not that Parrots cannot be kept with other animals in the same household.

What I am saying is that Predatory mammals ( Ferrets, Cats, Rats and Dogs and probably some more) just do not belong in a Parrot household.

But by all means you can keep other animals like Rabbits, Guinea pigs, Finches and of course Aquarium fish. Not that there is absolutely no risk here. Parrots can drown in fish tanks, a small budgie can get crushed under a heavy rabbit or disease can spread from finches to a macaw, but that will be only because of human carelessness and nothing about Fish's or the other animal's natural behaviour.

So my position is not that Companion Parrot keepers should not keep other animals. My position is that Companion Parrot keepers should not keep Predatory mammals.