I need some help.... Questions about a Panama Amazon?

[BarnabyRose]

Hey guys.. My name is Barnaby and I just joined this thread this evening. For those of you who may have seen my other thread I am SO SORRY for the multiple threads, I am just very new at this and I am not sure where to post and who will see it and for what and etc.

Anyway here goes.. I have the opportunity to purchase a baby Panama Amazon parrot from a VERY reputable breeder here in Seattle, WA. Not sure if it will be a male or a female yet but there are two babies to choose from if I decide to put my deposit down and I could potentially get either. Here's the thing: we currently have a female Eclectus named Emma, and she is PERFECT. She is very quiet, very calm and docile, and very independent, while still loving her cuddle time and training/play time and etc. She is perfect for me and my family and loves pretty much everyone. She is the single and sole reason we are interested in another bird at all. Anyway, I have done TONS of research on this bird (the Panama), read literally everything there is available to read on the Internet, and spoken with as many experts as I can. The problem is I am hearing lots and lots of conflicting information. I am not stupid; I am not looking for a 'silent Amazon' by any means. However that being said.. I simply can not house a screaming bird, and I am really hoping a Panama is not widely 'considered' one, like a cockatoo or a sun conure would be for example, but I know each bird is an individual and I would love to hear some personal experience. I also do not want to overwhelm Emma. They will be kept in the same room, on different perches out most of the day, and in different cages obviously, but definitely 'together'. I originally wanted a caique, or something similar, but have come to the conclusion that the little 'ADHD' nature of these birds would drive Emma crazy, give her anxiety and probably make her miserable. I also considered a Pionus or a Meyers, or even another Eclectus parrot for obvious reasons, but then I got the opportunity to get one of these Panama's, hence why I am here.

Literally anything anybody can tell me would help me more than you realize, I am stressing out about this as obviously without a deposit these birds will last only a few days.

So sorry for the long post :/

Thanks in advance!

Barnaby

 

[SailBoat]

Amazon's as a group are the best Parrots in the World or the worst! As an Amazon Snob, we have only shared our home with Amazons. Amazon's Rule!

Now, to your question, I have no way to know. Each is an individual. Yes, one species of Amazon 'as a group' maybe louder than another or more out-going, etc.... But everyone that lives to the fullest description of its species, another will be at the other end. It's the way it is.

If you really want an Amazon, YOU will have to learn its language! Read the First Thread in this Amazon Forum Section found in light Blue, regarding Amazon Body Language. READ IT, Learn it! Its like required reading.

I am thankful, that you have taken the time to educate yourself of the different parrots and also Amazons. What I am confused about is 'WHY' you need to add an additional parrot to your household? In your words you have a near perfect parrot now! To some point, its like messing with perfection. How will your current parrot react to another parrot. Some, will love it, and as always, some will hate it!

Regarding the Panama. I understand the pressure to buy after all there are only two. A highly ethical Breeder will not provide you a baby parrot until it has fully fledged, i.e. it is fully on solid food, can fly and is socialized. That's in my view. Now, one step back from there is a parrot that has been fully weaned and is fully on solid food. The parrot has a solid beginning on being socialized.

Last point, do you have 50% more time sitting around unused? 50% more money for cage, perches, toys, food, Vet costs? 50% more time to clean? Now, yes there a some cost and time savings, but not much.

 

[greytness]

I have a Panama Amazon. His personality is what I'd classify as 'shy'.
At least twice a day, sunrise and sunset, My Zon lets out a string of loud vocalizations that last anywhere from 30 seconds to5 minutes. Other than that, he's happy chattering and talking up a storm.

You must be prepared to accept their vocalizations no matter how loud they are BEFORE you get your baby. If you have any doubts, I advise you not to get a zon.

My quietest parrots are my pineapple GCC and my Jardine's. If you are attempting to get a quiet bird, my votes go towards these breeds.

 

[BarnabyRose]

Amazon's as a group are the best Parrots in the World or the worst! As an Amazon Snob, we have only shared our home with Amazons. Amazon's Rule!

Now, to your question, I have no way to know. Each is an individual. Yes, one species of Amazon 'as a group' maybe louder than another or more out-going, etc.... But everyone that lives to the fullest description of its species, another will be at the other end. It's the way it is.

If you really want an Amazon, YOU will have to learn its language! Read the First Thread in this Amazon Forum Section found in light Blue, regarding Amazon Body Language. READ IT, Learn it! Its like required reading.

I am thankful, that you have taken the time to educate yourself of the different parrots and also Amazons. What I am confused about is 'WHY' you need to add an additional parrot to your household? In your words you have a near perfect parrot now! To some point, its like messing with perfection. How will your current parrot react to another parrot. Some, will love it, and as always, some will hate it!

Regarding the Panama. I understand the pressure to buy after all there are only two. A highly ethical Breeder will not provide you a baby parrot until it has fully fledged, i.e. it is fully on solid food, can fly and is socialized. That's in my view. Now, one step back from there is a parrot that has been fully weaned and is fully on solid food. The parrot has a solid beginning on being socialized.

Last point, do you have 50% more time sitting around unused? 50% more money for cage, perches, toys, food, Vet costs? 50% more time to clean? Now, yes there a some cost and time savings, but not much.

Thank you for replying!

To a few of your questions, yes I have more time and money available. I own a large construction company and hurt my back a few years ago so don't really get out into the field all that much anymore and for lack of better words, I get bored. Money isn't a problem, and I have no problem with cleaning more and etc, no. I have a PHENOMENAL vet here in the Seattle area who is very widely considered one of the best in the business.
I also am not really concerned with the 'behavior issues' that may or may not arise from owning the Panama. It is more going to be a question of compatibility with Emma, noise level (outright SCREAMING fits for hours I am referring to, not just 'noise'), and etc.
I do not have the space for another entire room to dedicate to one bird as I have done with Emma, so I definitely do intent to keep them in the same room. On different perches and in different cages at all times, of course, but if they outright hate each other this will be problematic of course.
I also am WELL aware that each bird is an individual, just like a person, and that the only way to tell is to 'try it and find out' because no one can tell and etc etc HOWEVER, I would be stupid to bring home a cockatoo if I did not want a bird that would likely scream for attention right? I would stupid to bring home an African grey or a cockatiel if I were allergic to dander right? So what I am looking for is purely a GENERAL idea, about what to expect, if I did bring home a Panama Amazon, assuming my current situation, all things considered. I assume I am in the right place to ask as well, seeing as this website is called 'parrot forums'. As I said I have done TONS of research, this is more looking for personal people's experiences.
And to answer your last question, the reason we are looking for another bird is because Emma has made our life so much better in so many ways, we love having her around so much and have wanted another one from the second day we have had her (almost three years ago), and I finally have more time. Hope this answers your questions, thanks again for reading
Barnaby

 

[Birdman666]

My Panama amazon IS NOT a screamer, but she is a talker.

She's super playful. Loves everyone. Goes to everyone. Is bite pressure trained. And just has the absolute BEST temperment. SUPER SUPER INTERACTIVE. Still plays well on her own...

She's a joy to have around. But she also talks and plays non-stop... so she's not what you would call a quiet bird. But she is VERY WELL BEHAVED!!!

Couldn't recommend one more!!!

 

[SailBoat]

You have clearly done your homework and more.

And although not you, there are individuals that struggle to pay the costs of the parrot, its used cage, a few toys, food for the first few weeks and taxes. It is not unusual for that new owner to pay for the parrot in payments. The majority of those individuals will never take their parrot to a Vet, let alone an Avian Vet. In addition, the demand on their time to interact, care for and keep clean was never taken into consideration or past along to them. Their knowledge of the parrot species was, if any, a bit about the parrot as they fell in love at the pet shop by the sales person. These individuals truly love their parrots and work to provide for them. However and when asked, all will tell you that they had wished that they had more information prior to become a parrot owner. Hence my points.

What Mark did not tell you is that he is a near expert in working with the larger parrots. You will note that HE wrote that Amazon Body Language thread on the Amazon Forum. Point being, that there is a vast knowledge base as part of the Parrot Forum and also both Forums regarding your current parrot and the likely new comer to your home. Along with that knowledge base is a desire to also be honest and upfront regarding not only the positive, but also the less then positive realities of owning, or better stated owned by a parrot.

One of the most important parts of being owned by an Amazon is for the Amazon to also choose you!

 

[lplummer52]

I had a YNA for 39 years. She died of cancer about 7 years ago.....bleeding tumors.....I had to have her put down eventually. She was an only bird and the most "amusing" pet I ever had according to my mother. Everybody loved "Kermit." Her vocabulary consisted of hundreds of words. She was never super tame.....she had to be in the mood to show affection. She was NOT hand fed, but a rescue and at death's door when I brought her home. We did have to hand feed her then, but she never really got hand tame once she recovered from a respiratory infection. She was, nonetheless, the most amusing pet we ever had and we've had dogs and cats A LOT. I have so many stories I could tell about Kermit. Our house in the Virginia countryside was named Kermit's Perch because if was on a mountainside. I think Amazons are complicated. You just have to appreciate them for what they are and not expect too much.....certainly not going to be buddies with your Eclectus.

 

[BarnabyRose]

My Panama amazon IS NOT a screamer, but she is a talker.

She's super playful. Loves everyone. Goes to everyone. Is bite pressure trained. And just has the absolute BEST temperment. SUPER SUPER INTERACTIVE. Still plays well on her own...

She's a joy to have around. But she also talks and plays non-stop... so she's not what you would call a quiet bird. But she is VERY WELL BEHAVED!!!

Couldn't recommend one more!!!

Thanks so much for responding.. So again I am not by any means looking for a 'silent' bird, I have NO problem with talking and vocalizations and etc, just would like to if at all possible stay away from the screaming fits and what have you.
So when you say he talks all the time and etc, is it more of a conure or Eclectus 'chatter' kind of mumbles along all day.. Or is going to be more like VERY LOUD TALKING like which is typical of a lot of other Amazon species? Your bird sounds awesome as well by the way.. Definitely a huge help in my decision so thank you

 

[BarnabyRose]

I had a YNA for 39 years. She died of cancer about 7 years ago.....bleeding tumors.....I had to have her put down eventually. She was an only bird and the most "amusing" pet I ever had according to my mother. Everybody loved "Kermit." Her vocabulary consisted of hundreds of words. She was never super tame.....she had to be in the mood to show affection. She was NOT hand fed, but a rescue and at death's door when I brought her home. We did have to hand feed her then, but she never really got hand tame once she recovered from a respiratory infection. She was, nonetheless, the most amusing pet we ever had and we've had dogs and cats A LOT. I have so many stories I could tell about Kermit. Our house in the Virginia countryside was named Kermit's Perch because if was on a mountainside. I think Amazons are complicated. You just have to appreciate them for what they are and not expect too much.....certainly not going to be buddies with your Eclectus.

That is an awesome story and I am so sorry for your loss I'm sure you miss Kermit... Now when you say he will never be 'buddies' with my Eclectus.. Do you think this is still a reality assuming that the Panama will be a hand fed and hand raised very well socialized baby...? Again, I KNOW there's no way to tell, but surely this will help versus comparing a non hand raised or hand tamed bird right? I will be honest however.. All of the stories about the comical and fun nature of these birds, the amazing talking abilities and the independent nature they have is almost enough to let me make the final decision alone

 

[wrench13]

Your amazon will own you, not the other way round. Salty is yellow shoulder 'zon, very closely related to the panama. Same as marks, he talks almost all day, sometimes in words you know, sometimes in his own little language. He def has his quiet times, napping, and plays well by himself. But he loves his one on one time, has his every day loud session, when my wife prepares dinner, where he tries out every sound the parrot vocal chords are capable of. Does she or I mind it?
Hell no, it's one of the funniest things he does. Some loud, some tinny whistles and squeaks and I swear sometimes it sounds like he has 2 sets of vocal chords. Some very loud squacks. Lots of words hes been picking up. Amazons, like any parrot, demand playtime, only they will make it very obvious when they do. Ignore that and that's when they get loud. When they are done, they are DONE, and ignore that and you will get a nip or bite. No idea about the other species, but 'zons are capable of many emotions that you wouldn't attribute to a bird. Jealousy, resentment, joy, humor, sneekiness, greediness, forgiveness and LOVE. I could imagine a amazon becoming a tyrant over your existing bird, if they are kept in close contact. I've seen parroletes terrorize cockatoos and macaws, any my own Beebe parrot, a very small amazon, about the size of a large buggie, bully 'toos and conures at the local bird shop.

All my birds have been 'only' ones. I can't imagine splitting my time between 2 or more parrots, it was hard enough doing that raising 3 kids, who could be reasoned with, if daddy had to take Eric to his ballgame when Krista wanted to go visit the ponys. You can't reason with parrots. And parrots can't tell you why all of a sudden they start to scream all the time, or bite. You have to figure it out, what need is not being met. And how that affects your other bird(s).

Tell us, what about your current bird is not meeting YOUR needs?

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

My Blue Front,of 27 years,is NOT a screamer either. Like TexasWades Salty,my Amy can be loud,but in words. Yelling at the top of her lungs "HELLO!!..HOW ARE YOU??!!" but never an Amazon scream.

She is quiet,very friendly,and loveable. She wants to be buddies with everyone.
My house has always been a two birdie home. I originally had Smokey,a Timneh Grey and a year later I got Amy. Amy wanted to be friends from day one but Smokey didn't want any part.
After Smokes past on last year I adopted a Goffins 'Too and Amy and Jonesy became fast friends,hanging out on Amy's playtop,preening each other. I had to rehome Jonesy coz he turned into a screamer! From the moment he awoke to bedtime,and I didn't want Amy to pick up on that! Amy once shouted to Jonesy "SHUT UP!!" coz he was so bad.

Just last week I went out and bought a 14 week old Grey Teil for a buddy for Amy. I KNEW my Amazon would want to be friends,but was concerned the new teil,being much smaller would be frightened of Amys size. I could not be more wrong. BB <Baby Bird> loves Amy and vise versa. Amy sits on BB's roof top,preening his crest and BB whistles back to her. Amy has even helped BB eat his breakfast lol.

It depends on the bird,or birds.
Some people on this awesome forum were skeptical when I posted I was considering a cockatiel as a buddy for Amy..and Amy proved them all wrong lol

Like Sailboat has mentioned many times.."Amazons Rule!!"


Jim

 

[BarnabyRose]

My Blue Front,of 27 years,is NOT a screamer either. Like TexasWades Salty,my Amy can be loud,but in words. Yelling at the top of her lungs "HELLO!!..HOW ARE YOU??!!" but never an Amazon scream.

She is quiet,very friendly,and loveable. She wants to be buddies with everyone.
My house has always been a two birdie home. I originally had Smokey,a Timneh Grey and a year later I got Amy. Amy wanted to be friends from day one but Smokey didn't want any part.
After Smokes past on last year I adopted a Goffins 'Too and Amy and Jonesy became fast friends,hanging out on Amy's playtop,preening each other. I had to rehome Jonesy coz he turned into a screamer! From the moment he awoke to bedtime,and I didn't want Amy to pick up on that! Amy once shouted to Jonesy "SHUT UP!!" coz he was so bad.

Just last week I went out and bought a 14 week old Grey Teil for a buddy for Amy. I KNEW my Amazon would want to be friends,but was concerned the new teil,being much smaller would be frightened of Amys size. I could not be more wrong. BB <Baby Bird> loves Amy and vise versa. Amy sits on BB's roof top,preening his crest and BB whistles back to her. Amy has even helped BB eat his breakfast lol.

It depends on the bird,or birds.
Some people on this awesome forum were skeptical when I posted I was considering a cockatiel as a buddy for Amy..and Amy proved them all wrong lol

Like Sailboat has mentioned many times.."Amazons Rule!!"


Jim

Thank you for replying that is very helpful.. So has Amy always been like that or when she was a baby was she much louder? Did you get her as a baby or a little older..? Also, have you had any experience with a Panama? How do they compare size wise and etc?

 

[henpecked]

Welcome to the forum. I'll try and not write a book as a response. Panama is (imo) the best choice. I have several and also breed them. All get along with other birds better than the other "talker" subspecies of Amazon. Early socialization is the key to a good bird that can be friends with other birds and people. Socialize , Socialize, Socialize. BTW the best talking parrot I've ever met was a hen pan.

 

[Birdman666]

Welcome to the forum. I'll try and not write a book as a response. Panama is (imo) the best choice. I have several and also breed them. All get along with other birds better than the other "talker" subspecies of Amazon. Early socialization is the key to a good bird that can be friends with other birds and people. Socialize , Socialize, Socialize. BTW the best talking parrot I've ever met was a hen pan.

Would that be the one you sent me?! Because Kiwi is by far the best talker I've got, and my CAG also uses language in context...

Oh, and update, since Sarah has been home, Sarah calls me Dad... Kiwi also picked that up in context. She now refers to me, and calls me by "DAD!" How cool is THAT?!

I can't tell you how much we love her!!! (Well, yeah, I can A LOT!!! And that's underselling it!)

 

[henpecked]

I wasn't talking about Kiwi , but she is a great bird. I had a hen pan I took from a wild nest in the mid 70s. Her name was Floyd ( little do I know) , she talked and sang better than any other parrot I ever met.