How often do your Amazons get hormonal? [questionaire-ish]

[nrpcb]

Hi everyone,

I've been looking into whether it might be beneficial to let my older Amazon follow natural seasonal sleep schedules, allowing (not encouraging) him to get hormonal each year at a predictable time instead of trying to squash it altogether.

A lot of the pet advice articles I see recommend trying to stop this since it causes problems for owners, but I can tolerate him getting grumpy and aggressive for a while so it's the health effects that concern me. I've seen a lot of posts asking for help about hormonal Amazons where they already get a lot of sleep and breeding triggers are minimized but it happens anyway.

It's been hard to find cited information/research on whether it's healthier, less healthy, or doesn't matter for them to get hormonal or not, and what the physiological effects are. I know it's obviously natural in the wild, but since I am not a breeder he won't actually be mating or raising chicks and I am not sure if this has any negative physical effects. All I can find is hearsay or speculation, I'm really looking for something more detailed/solid than just "it puts a strain on them".

If you have the time to answer the following questions I'd be really grateful, it'd be very helpful to compare a lot of responses.

1. Male or female?
2. How old is your Amazon? Is he/she in puberty?
3. How much sleep does your Amazon get?
4. How often does your Amazon get hormonal and is it any particular time of year?
3. How long do these periods last?
4. Do you take any steps to try to discourage/stop it from happening?
5. At a previous point, were you not taking these steps? If so, comparatively, did it seem to work completely/reduce it and how much?
5. Does your bird have an obvious mate bond to someone around?
6. Breeding/non-breeding?

Thanks a ton!

EDIT: I'm pretty skeptical about pet advice site info mainly because I've personally found some questionable info when I was reading BFA advice. I've seen many pet advice places claim that Amazons are rainforest animals and naturally live in very wet/humid areas, but according to studies/actual observations, they mainly live in less humid woodland. I've also seen people say that Amazons live near the equator so in the wild they do not experience sleep season changes, but... I checked and BFA range extends into Paraguay and even further south, where there is ~7 hours of night in the summer and ~10 in the winter (http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/paraguay/asuncion). These sort of things make me pretty wary about just trusting what people say

 

[SailBoat]

Thank-you, for your interests in Amazons and their Hormonal events. Although, I am very interested in learning such information about Amazons. I question whether the results will be provided back to the Amazon Forum.

So, a few questions:

Who are you?
Are you part of a institution of higher learning, a lab, vendor to the Parrot industry?
Do you have Amazons as test subjects, pets, etc...
How long have you had an interest in Amazons?
What are your plans, once the information is collected; publish it, provide product to the Parrot industry, provide it back to this Forum. And what assurance do we have that if will be provided back to this Forum.
Etc........

 

[nrpcb]

Oops, I should have been clearer. I'm not writing a paper. I'm not in this field or even a researcher, I'm just a really anal software developer with a pet Amazon. Since I have no intention of publishing scientific literature, there's no benefit for me to not share any info I get back and plus, wouldn't it be here for everyone to see?

A little more about Charlie... I've only had him a bit over two months but I want to do the best by him, he is my first Amazon but my second bird. He's somewhere in his 20s, not sure exactly how old. I haven't had him long enough to see how he is when hormonal but since it's summer here I'm trying to figure out if I should put him to bed so early or not.

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Ok I'll start...

My Blue Front <Amy> is 27 years old, I got her when she was about 14 weeks old.
"She" is a DNA'd Male
She gets hormonal in the springtime.
It lasts a couple weeks.
I do nothing about it,I still interact with her,but I know her body lingo and sometimes I just let her be.
I don't feed her anything different than her normal stuff..which is everything and anything..

Jim

 

[henpecked]

Welcome to the forum. I have many Zons. Most are breeder pairs , but several pets,male and female. I think your responses will vary a great deal. That's the case in my house. Usually hormonal in late winter/spring, however I have a pair of wild caught OWA who are mating several times a day right now. I also have a long time pet hen nape who will get hormonal when I return from being away for extended periods. I have noticed that stimulating hormonal issues or encouraging behavior on your part will make the hormonal issues more of an issue in the future. If you can keep it from becoming an issue, it should get better (less common. I've been living with amazons for almost 60 years now, few absolutes regarding this behavior. The other side of the story is how to stimulate breeding behavior, I could write a book on that.

 

[nrpcb]

Welcome to the forum. I have many Zons. Most are breeder pairs , but several pets,male and female. I think your responses will vary a great deal. That's the case in my house. Usually hormonal in late winter/spring, however I have a pair of wild caught OWA who are mating several times a day right now. I also have a long time pet hen nape who will get hormonal when I return from being away for extended periods. I have noticed that stimulating hormonal issues or encouraging behavior on your part will make the hormonal issues more of an issue in the future. If you can keep it from becoming an issue, it should get better (less common. I've been living with amazons for almost 60 years now, few absolutes regarding this behavior. The other side of the story is how to stimulate breeding behavior, I could write a book on that.

Just wondering, do you give your breeder pairs and your pet zons' the same amount of sleep? Do your pet Amazons get like that every year too or did you just mean the breeders when you mentioned winter/spring?

 

[SailBoat]

Thank-you, for the clarifications! Like your clarity of Amazon population areas.

1. Male, DNA and surgery verified (with tattoo)
2. 18 years old, been with us for 2.5 years. Had Breeders Band with birth date, which has been remove and replaced with a Micro Chip
3. Late January - early February
4. Only once per year. Is subject to very short events driven by over stimulation with play.
5. About four days. Short events less then 2 hours.
6. His displays are very clear. Only a fool would push him! Guests will ask and I tell them that I would allow it only if there was an E-Unit of site for them. He can spin-up very quickly, but is near as fast unwinding. Once again, very clear of his displays.
7. Halt interactions until he stabilizes
8. Did it all wrong with my first Amazon. She was wild caught and was a true joy to listen too. But for a LCA, she was as easy to get wound-up as our DYH Amazon. Main error was to continue to push interactions with an over-loaded Amazon. Presented all the signs, but the Human wasn't paying attention!
9. Yes, my dear wife! But we work hard a socializing him with nearly any poor soul that walks in the door. When he is over-loaded, I can move him, she can not (or maybe she just chooses wiser).
10. End of Life Amazons, mainly pets since most are presourced by one of our local Avian Vet.


Understanding Amazon Body Language is one of the primary keys to a happy life with an Amazon. You must learn their language! If you have not read the first Thread at the top of the Amazon Forum, please do read it. It works even better, if you sit with your Amazon and read it aloud! Commonly, by the third of forth reading (aloud) you will begin to understand it and your Amazon is becoming more accustom to your voice. General statement, Amazons Love to be Read Too! It also works with other individuals that either you want or they want to have a relationship with your Amazons.

Another key is that it is never the fault of the Amazon, never! It is always the fault of the Human, always! By setting this into you're mind and with this understanding firmly in place you will more quickly understand what you are doing wrong and correct it!

Sleep is one of the tools to reset an Amazon that is out of its 'normal' yearly cycle. A sleep deprived Amazon is as dangerous as a sleep deprived Human! Our Amazon is self-regulating i.e. he will stop interacting and head-off to his night perch. If we are interfering with his sleep, he will vocalize! NOT all Amazons will do that, which can result in a sleep deprived Amazons and likely result in a Hormonal response!

 

[Birdman666]

1. Male or female? 3 FEMALES

2. How old is your Amazon? Is he/she past puberty?

2 year old Panama - NO
17 year old Red Lored - YES
43 year old Lilac Crowned - YES

3. How much sleep does your Amazon get?

They are generally up by 6:00 am, and bedtime is generally 10:00 pm. But they also nap during the day.


4. How often does your Amazon get hormonal and is it any particular time of year?

Seasonal for two out of three - generally late spring/summer to fall.

3. How long do these periods last?

3-4 months.

4. Do you take any steps to try to discourage/stop it from happening?

No. And it wouldn't do any good. It's a naturally occurring thing. WHAT YOU DON'T DO IS THINGS THAT STIMULATE THEM WHEN THEY ARE ACTING THAT HORNY... With amazons, sometimes you just need to know when to just leave them be.

5. At a previous point, were you not taking these steps? If so, comparatively, did it seem to work completely/reduce it and how much?

I haven't really had a problem with hormonal behaviors OTHER THAN my red lored gets insanely jealous of the other birds... and courts my coffee pot when it starts making noises in the morning... (You don't pick her up when she's displaying for the coffee pot. That would be rude!)

5. Does your bird have an obvious mate bond to someone around?

Panama - No. Too young for that anyway. I'm the "playmate." (Not that kind of playmate.)

Red Lored - No. I'm the favorite person. NOT the bird mate. Make that clear to them and it doesn't become an issue.

Lilac Crowned - Yes. My CAG.

6. Breeding/non-breeding?

NON-BREEDING FOR ALL OF THEM.

 

[Kiwibird]

1. Male, told he had been DNA'd at some point when we adopted him and he displays clear male mating behaviors.

2. Approximately 18 years old. I would say safely he is past puberty and into adulthood

3. Approximately 10 hours a night and sleeps some during the day as well (naps)

4. Usually early spring, as the days start to get noticeably longer

3. About 6-8 weeks, kind of builds up, hits a peak and winds down.

4. Less fruit/more veg, he is on a year-round sleep/wake cycle, extra cautious of his moods to keep interactions positive, ignore sexual behaviors

5. We pretty much started this stuff as soon as we adopted him. He was at the height of puberty then and had other behavioral/trust issues as well

5. He prefers my husband, but he is socialized well enough he does not try to attack me or anyone else to "defend" my hubby and at this point will step up to just about anyone confident enough to ask him to. He does not try to 'mate' or 'feed' any human because it has ben discouraged from day one.

6. As cute as baby blue fronts would be, no girlfriend for Kiwi

 

[Birdman666]

Yeah. That's something I forgot to add... when it first kicks in the first week or so is when they get moodiest...

My red lored gets jealous of attention paid to the other zons, and tempermental, extremely horny to touch stimulation...

My lilac crowned amazon is pretty even keeled, but she will pester my CAG to be fed, and she doesn't leave him alone... though she is pretty much his shadow 24/7 anyway. (Those two can NEVER be separated. NEVER!)

My Panama loves everyone, self entertains all day long, and plays well with others as well. Nothing phases her. But we haven't hit puberty yet, and the onset of puberty with a zon is usually the hardest time...

 

[henpecked]

well, here i go. Hormonal behaviors are an easy out for our short comings and zon behaviors. If you really feel that hormones are the issue then your male should be about 10 % over normal body weight. they have 2 testies but only one becomes enlargered when hormonal. This is a real clue to if you"re having a hormonal issue or a behavioral issue. If he's shredding wood,toys,perches, etc. and flying to attack, then it could be either hormonal or social . The easy out is, that's it nature but the reality could be your lack of zon behavior. I'd learn as much as i could and realize that they are very social. Sex is much more than that to pair bonded birds, it's also a form of bonding. Your pet will do anything to "cement" their relationship with you. How you establish those rules is something they can live with.

 

[henpecked]

once again,i feel like i.ve sayed too much

 

[henpecked]

Your zon and your relationship. I s much more complicated than you could possibility imagine. It,s more than an easy "cut and dry" relationship. They need the stability of an permanent relationship too be happy.They are more than happy for you to set the ground rules. Socialize, socialize,socialize.

 

[henpecked]

it's a shame henpecked doesn't have a life ouside this forum.

 

[Kiwibird]

it's a shame henpecked doesn't have a life ouside this forum.

But what would the rest of us who spend all our time on this forum too do without our resident zon expert?

 

[msdeb]

1. Male or female?
2. How old is your Amazon? Is he/she in puberty?
3. How much sleep does your Amazon get?
4. How often does your Amazon get hormonal and is it any particular time of year?
3. How long do these periods last?
4. Do you take any steps to try to discourage/stop it from happening?
5. At a previous point, were you not taking these steps? If so, comparatively, did it seem to work completely/reduce it and how much?
5. Does your bird have an obvious mate bond to someone around?
6. Breeding/non-breeding?

1. Male, DNA'ed YNA (one of the hot three)
2. 16-18 years old so, yes, late puberty
3. up at 6 am bed at about 9-10 pm with naps during the day
4. every year since I've had him about 5-6 years now and early spring is the worst time
5. a few weeks at most and he is aggressive with the other people in my life with the exception of my daughter(to whom he is completely devoted)
6. Nope, nature can't really be stopped, so I just try not to stir him up any worse than he is, already.
7. At first I had no clue that Charlie was using me as a masturbatory object and once I figured it out (I am slow sometimes!) I tried to discourage the behavior. Does this help? somewhat.
8. I guess, to Charlie, I am his mate but he also treats my daughter like a chick (trying to feed her )
9. non-breeding As far as I know Charlie has never met a female bird of the same species

 

[nrpcb]

henpecked: Haha, there is no saying too much. Thanks for the advice. Personally I am not worried about my Amazon's behavior as he has no real problems so far, but that was still very informative!

I'm leaning towards letting my Amazon follow natural lighting cues and just coping with the result. I saw a lot of articles recommending 'artificial winter' daylight hours all the time but it doesn't seem to be that effective according to some of the answers here so far.