how do you breed alexandrines?

[Parroteet18]

Hello there guys I have 2 Alexandrine’s Male And Female the Male is 3 Years and the female 2 years they have been together for approx 5 months and they have not bonded at all but stay away from each other the female is more dominant as when they both go to the food bowl the female starts to bite the male aggressively the male however never reacts but stays calm and goes away,

They live in the shed with a strong mesh window so they can get a bit of air, and they have perches that they can fly to they have space to fly around so they can be as healthy as possible their diet is : 1 and a half bowl of mixed seeds and a bowl of fruit a day they however the male has been losing a lot of feathers lately it looks like a heavy molt he started molting as soon as the female finishes

I put a next box in the shed and they don’t go in I only see the male siting on top of the box

Do you guys have any advice on to breed my Alexandrine’s
Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[itzjbean]

Thanks for reaching out!

As you have observed, birds are individuals who have preferences and it's just not as simple as throwing two opposite sexed birds together in an enclosure. It is unlikely this pair will ever breed or bond if they haven't already by now especially as they don't even seem like friends at this point.

Are you for certain they are male and female? Had them DNA tested? When was their last vet checkup, to ensure that they are healthy enough for reproducing? I only ask because of the feather loss, it may be more of an issue than you can see, underlying medical issue that a vet would be able to see and help with. Sick birds won't be as inclined to breed.

Conditions have to be just right for them to breed....long hours of sunlight, warmer temperatures, plenty of food and they want to feel comfortable in their environment.

First and foremost, I would not keep them in a shed, that sounds like mold/mildew/bacteria/bug/mouse/snake problems just waiting to happen. Do you clean the shed and their droppings, extra food that is on the ground? How are you keeping critters out from getting to them?

Second and foremost, it sounds like this diet is lacking. Fruit has a ton of sugar and should only be served sparingly, with veggies making up the majority of what they eat, with a little seed (it's like fast food for birds). Sprouts are a great option, as well as a good pellet mix.

They should really be kept inside the house, in a proper cage to ensure you can keep an eye on them from predators as well as make sure they don't injure each other. If after 5 months they clearly don't like each other and fight, it may be time to separate them and find them both new partners.

Breeding birds can be tricky. And even if you do have a bonded pair, there's no guarantee that they will sit on the eggs, feed chicks or mutilate them to death. It happens, and if not prepared to pull chicks from the nest with proper equipment (brooder, hand feeding formula, gram scale, etc.) it will turn fatal very quickly.

It seems your pair is just not interested in each other, and there is no forcing them to bond and breed. There are no guarantees one bird will like the other, so you can try to separate them and get other birds for them to pair with, but again with no guarantee the birds will like each other, you may be in more of a pickle than before.

My advice.... keep researching. Move the pair inside into separate cages next to each other, work on improving their diet, get them to the vet for a checkup if they haven't been for a while, and get in contact with a local breeder in your area to get some tips, tricks and ask questions to about pairing, bonding and of course taking care of babies should they nee your assistance in the future.

 

[Parroteet18]

Thanks very much for your informative reply when I first bought my female as a 3 month old I had no intention of buying a mate for here we tried to tame her but she just wouldn’t she would bite and always want to be in the cage, in may this year we decided to get her DNA tested she came out as a female And we thought that maybe she would be better in an aviary with the same species and a companion there were a few male Alexandrine’s on the market and we decided to buy one for the first few days we kept them in a cage (whilst waiting for the shed to arrive they wouldn’t fight but would always talk to each other in the mornings however when the shed arrived I had put them both in and I realised a change in the females behaviour she would become very aggressive to the male and the male would just move back not retaliating the female likes to be in her own company now I’m just hoping that after the male has molted an breeding season comes around they pair up somehow I don’t know I could happen

 

[GaleriaGila]

I like our Bean's concerns. Especially about diet, DNA, caging...
Breeding birds under such conditions is a potentially heartbreaking and cruel undertaking. You sound like a caring person, so that is why I am being very frank...
So much to think about.

Why do you want to breed? More pets? Making money?

Please don't proceed without a good avian veterinarian on hand.
Here are some links.

Certified Avian Vets
https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/
If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
In my opinion, any of the vets listed here should be better than a regular vet.

And as said above... hold off for now! Read, reach out, and absorb.
Thank you for inquiring!

 

[noodles123]

They live in a shed?

When did they go to the vet last?

 

[EllenD]

Itzjbean has summed-up everything you need to know and act on in her post, and you'd be very wise to take this seriously and listen to what we are telling you, as both she and I have bred parrots for many years, and every bird breeder is going to run into the situation that you're in, which is that you have put together a male and a female bird that simply do not like each other, and that probably not EVER going to breed together.

Birds are not at all like dogs, cats, rodents, reptiles, or any other type of "pet" where if you want to breed them all you have to do is put any male and female together and it will happen. Birds are very much like humans in the way that they decide who their partner/mate is, and who they are going to breed with. With birds, long, long before they ever even think about breeding, they must first find a bird of the opposite sex who they like and who they actually WANT TO bond closely with. Once they find a bird of the opposite sex that they like and that they start bonding with, it will still be a long, long time before they are bonded closely enough that they start mating, and eventually breeding. So if you think about how we as people meet someone, decide whether or not we are at all interested in dating them, then decide to start dating them, date them for a long time, eventually move in with them, eventually get married, and THEN decide to have children, that's very much how birds work when it comes to breeding them.

****The two birds that you have don't like each other at all. Right now I would classify them as two birds that don't like each other at all, but that are simply "tolerating" each other because they have no choice, they're trapped together and have to live with one another, and they are simply putting-up with each other, and have bouts of aggression and violence..The only outcome of putting two birds together that is worse than what you have with your two birds is where the two birds absolutely hate each other and are constantly aggressive and violent with each other, to the point that they are hurting one another and will eventually kill each other. It sounds to me like your birds have the potential of getting to that type of situation, since the female is already being aggressive with the male...that usually will keep progressing until one day she really seriously injures him...

***Forgetting that situation for the moment...You're birds are not going to breed, as they just don't have the type of bond with one another, and they are never going to get to the place where they are bonded closely with one another and where they want to start mating. And putting a nest-box in with them is not going to entice them into mating with one another, it's pointless to have the nest-box in with them, and actually is a really bad idea in your situation because not only are they not ever going to start mating, but things like nest-boxes, nesting-materials, etc. can still trigger hormonal behavior in your female bird, but in your situation instead of your female becoming hormonal and wanting to breed with her "partner" or "mate", since they aren't partners or mates and she is already being aggressive/violent with her, she could actually become more aggressive with him and actually end-up hurting him badly...or worse. So the very first thing that you need to do is to remove the nest-box from the shed, because again, it's definitely not going to get them to start mating, but what it might do is cause your female to really hurt your male.

The thing that you need to realize is that you could have just as easily brought home a second bird of the opposite sex, just like you did, but let's say that you just by chance chose a different bird than the one that you brought home...and in this scenario they may have bonded closely with one another. That's just how it goes. But what you need to understand is that there is absolutely no way at all that you can FORCE or ENTICE your birds to start mating/breeding. Their relationship with one another isn't anywhere near what it needs to be for them to breed...

*****And in the situation that your two birds are in, the best thing that you can do for the welfare and health of both of your birds is to completely separate them ASAP. For future reference, breeders who are attempting to "pair" birds of the opposite sex for potential breeding don't just put two brand new birds who have never seen each other inside of the same cage with each other! Nor should ANYONE, whether you are hoping to put two birds together to breed, or you simply want two birds as pets, you should NEVER, EVER put two birds inside of the same cage together the minute you bring them home, or the minute you bring home a second bird and already have a current bird. It's dangerous, unhealthy for both birds, both physically and psychologically, and to be very forward with you, it's irresponsible. The proper way to bring home a second bird, whether they are of the same sex or the opposite sex, and whether you want to try to breed them or they are just going to be pets, doesn't matter, you should ALWAYS do a 30-day quarantine of the new bird in a totally separate room from your current bird, and then once the quarantine is done, you should put their individual cages in the same room so that they can see each other and talk to each other, and so you can see whether or not they are getting along, or if they are just ignoring each other and don't care, or if they hate each other and are showing aggression. And then you need to make your decisions about housing them together in the future based on how they are interacting with each other while in separate cages but in the same room. You can't just put two birds together in the same cage and then just "see what happens"...


***All of that being said, the bottom-line in your situation is that your birds are most-likely not ever going to start mating, as they don't have that type of bond with one another, but that is the least of your issues. Breeding your two birds shouldn't be anywhere in your plan for them right now anyway, as based on what you are describing with their diet and the male's feathers, they are both most-likely suffering from some malnutrition and nutritional deficiencies, as well as other physical health conditions, such as possible liver disease, kidney disease, etc., due to their diet, as well as their level of stress due to their living arrangement and environment.

Your male's feathers falling-out the way that you're describing them is not likely a "molt" at all, but rather a combination of nutritional deficiencies due to an all-seed staple (very high in fat) along with nothing else but fresh fruit (very high in sugar which is turned into fat), along with high psychological stress due to being completely dominated by the female 24/7, and then also some degree of physical abuse to him by the female. I'm sure that you are aware that mental stress is extremely hard on birds, they don't handle stress well at all, sometimes to the point where they literally die due to nothing else but high, psychological stress. What you are describing with your male being not only dominated by the female in every way, but also being physically abused by the female, combined with poor nutrition is causing your male some potentially serious physical health issues. And your female is also going to be suffering from the exact same nutritional deficiencies and possible illnesses/diseases due to a high-fat, high-sugar, low protein, inadequate vitamin/mineral diet. So she is absolutely in no condition at all to start laying eggs, which is extremely hard on their bodies under the best of circumstances...Does she have access to both a Cuttlebone and a Mineral Block at all times, so that she's getting adequate Calcium? Even though your birds are not going to breed, it is still very possible for your female to start laying infertile eggs at any time, and if she is suffering from any type of nutritional deficiencies and she does not have access to ample Calcium at all times, she is at great risk for Egg-Binding, which is 100% fatal without immediate medical intervention.

What I'm trying to say here is that forgetting that your birds are not a breeding-pair and are most-likely never going to breed, that should not be what you are worrying about right now. Right now you need to take the nest-box out, separate your two birds so that the male is not constantly under so much stress and physical abuse from the female, and then you need to get both of them to a Certified Avian Vet or an Avian Specialist so that they can each have a wellness-exam, and so that they can each have routine blood-work done to determine whether or not they are suffering from any infections, any nutritional deficiencies, and so that you can see their liver function and kidney function. And you also need to start changing their diet immediately. They should be eating a fortified parrot pellet as the main staple of their daily diet, with a healthy, varied seed-mix that contains NO sunflower seeds, peanuts, or any other nuts in a very small quantity as a supplement to the pellets daily. And then they need to be given fresh veggies and dark, leafy greens every single day as well, instead of fruit every day. Fruit should only be given a couple of times a week and in small quantities, as it's loaded with sugar which is turned into fat. Fresh fruit does not at all replace fresh veggies...You need to work on getting both of your birds physically healthy, their diet nutritious, and both of their environments safe, comfortable for them both, and free of constant stress, and the only way to do that is to separate them each into their own cages with their own food, water, toys, etc. If you have to keep them in a shed instead of in cages, then you need to separate the shed into two separate living areas where they both have their own food, water, toys, foraging activities, etc.

 

[Parroteet18]

Thanks you very much EllenD for that informative reply I’ll give you update

I’ve recently bought vitamin drops that I put in the water bowl and food bowl daily they’re feathers are improving rapidly especially the male his is head is Giving a really nice shine I’ve also added more food to their diet such as watermelon lettuce spinach cucumbers apples radish and grapes also I went to the shed this mornin and noticed something really out of the normal I peeked through the window as see them both snuggled up next to each other with the female having closed eyes and the male alert this is very strange cause for the past few months they have been keeping distance sitting on opposite sides of the perches also she is now okay with him eating at the same times as her and doesn’t snatch food for him would you guys say that they are starting to bond by any chance

 

[SilverSage]

Vitamin drops are no good. They promote bacteria and yeast in the water.

I also do NOT recommend breeding a bird that is already known to be a bad pet. A LOT of temperament is genetic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ChristaNL]

I also do NOT recommend breeding a bird that is already known to be a bad pet. A LOT of temperament is genetic.

I wish more people would take this to heart!


if you think this is a load of horsemanure - look at how they bred foxes within a few generations to be cute, cuddly and humanminded instead of feral.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_red_fox

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2018/08/fox-dogs-wild-tame-genetics-study-news/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/domesticated-foxes-genetically-fascinating-terrible-pets

 

[GaleriaGila]

Please, please, do not continue to try to breed these birds. You have been given excellent advice above... caring, accurate, specific advice. Please consider an alternative.

Again, why do you want to breed them? Money, more pets?

My heart is heavy with the thought of these birds in the shed and situation you describe. The female could simply be sick and weak and giving up the fight... only an avian vet can say for sure.

We are a community of bird lovers, and will do all that we can to help you reach a humane solution.

 

[brighterdaysaviary]

Before even thinking about bringing more birds into this world you need to be taking excellent care of the ones you already have.

Including but not limited to vet care, proper diet, direct exposure to some sunlight, proper living situation, plenty of toys, foraging toys, and mental stimulation, and more.

 

[EllenD]

Please do not give them "vitamin drops" in their drinking water...I assure you that they are not helping them at all in any way, and in fact, as already mentioned by SilverSage, they have the potential to harm them more than anything else.

You should NEVER put any type of vitamins or dietary/nutritional supplements or any type of medications in a bird's drinking water!!! First of all, it instantly contaminates their drinking water, as there are many by-products that are produced due to chemical reactions that take place when water is mixed with other compounds. And forgetting that, as soon as you add anything to their water, both bacteria and fungi start growing in the water and on the bowl/dish immediately. So that's the first reason not to ever do it.

Secondly, when you put any type of medication or nutritional supplement in their water, you have absolutely no idea what DOSAGE you're giving them!!! Realize that birds don't drink that much water throughout the day...so depending on how large their water dish is, they are either getting too little for it to do any good, or way too much which can be toxic/poisonous. It's a horribly irresponsible way to give your birds medications and supplements, and unfortunately it's not uncommon for Veterinarians who are not Certified Avian Vets or Avian Specialists to actually prescribe birds who have a bacterial or fungal infection powdered prescription medications, such as antibiotics, antifungals, and anti-parasitics, and to tell their owners to simply put a certain amount of the powdered medications in their drinking water each day! Usually these are "Exotics" Vets, and if you ever run-into a vet who you take a sick bird to and who is diagnosed with any type of infection or illness, and you have a Vet who tries to give you a powdered medication that you are supposed to put in their drinking water, please just say no, and ask for the oral version of the medication, already correctly dosed into oral syringes and put inside of a bottle, so that you can just give them the correct oral dose of medication directly and not have to worry about giving them the correct dosage. Either way, do not EVER put any meds or any nutritional supplements into their water.

****Those cheap "vitamin drops" that you can buy at any grocery store's "pet section" or in pet stores are not in any way a good idea to give your birds. Forgetting that those "vitamin drops" are worthless and harmful, your birds shouldn't EVER need a multi-vitamin supplement if their regular, daily diet is adequate. The only time you should ever need to give a bird a vitamin/mineral supplement is if they are suffering from some type of nutritional deficiency or illness that is causing a nutritional deficiency. And the only way that can be diagnosed is by getting them to a CAV or Avian Specialist for a complete Wellness-Exam that includes routine blood-work, which you should have done to both of your birds at least once every year. So until you get your birds to a proper Avian Specialist and have blood-work done, there is no reason to give them any type of cheap vitamin drops that will only harm them and potentially make them very sick.

As far as their regular, daily diets go, I'm glad that you are starting to give them fresh veggies and dark, leafy greens; they should be getting a large serving each of a variety of fresh veggies and dark, leafy greens every single day (NEVER ANY ONIONS, AS THEY ARE TOXIC TO BIRDS)...However, once again, please do not feed them fresh fruit every day, and certainly not in large portions. All fruit is loaded with sugar, and even very healthy birds who are eating a low-fat, high-protein, nutritious staple diet every day should not have fruit every single day...But your birds are unfortunately on an all-seed diet, the seed-mix is their only staple food, and they eat no pellets at all. So they are already getting a large dose of fat every single day, and if you give them fruit on top of the seed-mix, you're doubling the amount of fat that is being stored in their livers, and setting them up for Fatty Liver Disease, which they may already have, and may very well be the cause of feather/beak issues, or any other health issues that they may be suffering from. So fruit should only be a treat for your birds, at most 3-4 days a week, less would be better, and in small quantities. They can have all the fresh veggies and dark, leafy greens that they'll eat, but not fruit.

***Also, if you can't get them to transition onto a pellet as their regular, daily staple diet, with a healthy, low-fat seed-mix being only a supplement to the pellets, then at least make sure that the seed-mix that they are eating every day contains no sunflower-seeds, no peanuts or other nuts, and no corn. I don't know what brand/type of seed-mix you feed them, but any bagged seed-mix that you purchase at a grocery store or at a store like Walmart is horrible for them; there are several healthy, low-fat, non-sunflower seed, non-peanut/nut, non-corn seed-mixes that you can buy at any Petco or Petsmart, or that you can order online, that will help to get your birds nutrition and health back on-track, get the fat in their liver lowered, and provide them with all of the essential vitamins, minerals, amino acids, protein, etc. that they need if they are not eating a pellet staple diet.

Some of the healthy, low-fat seed mixes available are Tropimix (actually contains Tropican pellets too), Higgins VitaSeed (specifically the California Blend, as it contains no fatty seeds, nuts, or corn), Sunseed Vita Prima, Zupreem Smart Selects, most Volkman mixes, Sweet Harvest non-Sunflower Seed, most L'Avian mixes, and many others, but always check to make sure what their ingredients are.