How Can I Regain My Trust?

[SnowPhoenix]

I have a problem.

I own both a wonderful 9-month-old Pied Cockatiel named Julian (male and sexed) and a 7.5-week-old baby Sun Conure named Phoenix (presumed male (unsexed) which was raised since 3-weeks-old myself).

Both my birds are gems. I love them - they give me so much peace, joy, laughter and sometimes annoyance (especially when Phoenix buries his whole head into my ponytail and yanks my hair in hopes of catching some stray 'things' in there j/k). I have a great bond with Phoenix since I handle him the most since he still needs to be fed some Kaytee's Exact formula besides other solid food that he's taken to. He's harness-trained, almost fully potty-trained and is progressing wonderfully.

I used to have a great relationship with Julian as well until two weeks ago. He was diagnosed with bird mites at my avian vet's, and I was prescribed a medicated bath solution. I don't know much of Julian's history with his previous breeder - except that he was originally listed as 'tame' (not really true - he was a very tempermental bird and it took me a good month to work with him) and he knew how to 'step up' (this part was partially true).

Ever since I gave him the medicated bath two weeks ago and put him back in the cage, he refuses to come back out of the cage. He allows me to put my whole arm into the cage, allows me to pet him, tickle his chin and even snap pics (he poses for them!) but the moment I try to coax him out using either my finger or perch (to get him to step up) or even some millet, he freaks out and quickly clambers as far away from me as possible - as if he's terrified.

It hurts me a lot to see him like this because he used to sit on my shoulder - walk all over my desk and even nibble my ears. I miss that relationship I had with him.

My guess was he hated the bath and now associates coming out of the cage = bath time! But how do I get him to trust me again and understand that I'm not going to bathe him again? He's fully recovered from the mites - but he hasn't stretched his wings for two - going three weeks now.

Please help.

 

[SailBoat]

There are a number of methods in getting a parrot out of its cage. To one level or another, they all have their good points and bad points. Point is, to proceed, you need to get him out of the cage. Other members will likely provide other methods and as this thread develops, select one and proceed. I use several methods depending of the parrot and its cage.

So, as part of my thread, I will target one method: At some point, regardless of whether your relationship is great or not, you will need to clean the cage. So, prepare to clean the parrot's cage. Once ready, try requesting a 'step-up' and remove your parrot from its cage. Based on what you have stated, it will likely not work. At that point, simply start dis-assembling the cage. At some point there will be little reason or cage left for you parrot to remain in it. Keep trying 'step-up' until he does. Now move quickly away from the cage to other room (possible a bed room) targeting a room that he has been in before. Clearly not where he was treated!

Work with your parrot targeting: 'Only Good Things Happens When You Are With Me and Out of Your Cage.'

At some point, you are going to have to complete the process of cleaning the cage and re-assembling it . Set your parrot on a stand and clean the cage. Keep you parrot out of the cage as long as both of you have time and interest.

I am certain that others will be providing other methods and as stated above, try the one that you feel most comfortable.

Building trust is an going process, However, there will be set-backs. So, accept it and move forward.

 

[Birdman666]

Bottom line, however you do it, just do it.

Once he realizes that he's not going to have to take those nasty bug baths anymore, he'll stop being so defensive.

He's afraid you're gonna. Until he realizes you're NOT gonna, he'll react that way. The only way to get him to realize that is to just find a way take him out and NOT do it.

Short answer: He'll get over it.

 

[SnowPhoenix]

I just wanted to stop by and say thanks to both of you! I took SailBoat's method and applied it - but there was a huge flaw - Julian's cage is pre-fixed and virtually impossible to disassemble as I'd originally expected. Instead what I did was put some millet in a detachable food tray and hook it up to the door. The moment he stood on the tray's edge, I opened the cage door and distracted him with one hand (to prevent him from quickly clambering sideways and back into the cage) whilst quickly using my other free hand to dislodge the food tray and disassemble it. So he had no choice - he was now perched on the food tray which was now in my hands and outside the cage!

He quibbled a bit but once I praised him, petted him and kept gently reassuring him, he stepped up on my finger slowly. I then continued to get him to step up a few times to reinforce the idea, before he got bored and flew up to sit on my shoulder! I was so happy and overjoyed that he's slowly becoming his normal old-self again.

Although he did only spend 30 minutes with me before flying back into his cage after my therapy dog spooked him a little (she barked when she entered the room), I am still happy we made some progress. Tomorrow I'll try to get him out again repeatedly. The breeder I got him from clipped his wings for safety reasons because Julian gets night frights and is naturally easily spooked by the littlest of sounds (he has a tendency to fly uncoordinatedly into solid things when scared).

Here's a pic of him today - thank you SailBoat and Birdman666!

 

[MonicaMc]

I have to wonder what would happen if you just left the cage door open to see if he would come out on his own...

 

[SnowPhoenix]

I have to wonder what would happen if you just left the cage door open to see if he would come out on his own...

I have tried that, but he refuses to come out. I once left it open for close to six hours and he was seated at the very back of the cage and making a lot of unhappy noises.

 

[MonicaMc]

I'm afraid that if you continue to force him out of his cage that it may get to a point in time that he's "fine" once he's out of his cage, but you'll *always* have a problem getting him out of his cage because he'll learn it's an experience to be avoided - no matter how much he enjoys being out of the cage!


Do you have a picture of his cage?


And if it has a swing out door, would it be possible to attach a perch to the door along with a treat cup? If you can feed him treats at the door, then swing the door open (slowly) while still continuing to feed him treats, he will thus be "out" of his cage. You could then work on getting him to step up onto your hand?

 

[Birdman666]

I'm afraid that if you continue to force him out of his cage that it may get to a point in time that he's "fine" once he's out of his cage, but you'll *always* have a problem getting him out of his cage because he'll learn it's an experience to be avoided - no matter how much he enjoys being out of the cage!


Do you have a picture of his cage?


And if it has a swing out door, would it be possible to attach a perch to the door along with a treat cup? If you can feed him treats at the door, then swing the door open (slowly) while still continuing to feed him treats, he will thus be "out" of his cage. You could then work on getting him to step up onto your hand?

I respectfully disagree with all of this...

If that were true, then kindly explain why this greenwing, which I forced out of his cage kicking and screaming by his feet, after calling his bluff, when he tried to bite me, and then chasing him around the cage for 20 minutes, and then finally tackling him with a towel...

http://www.parrotforums.com/macaws/53118-excitement.html

He had a bad experience and now he's fearful. Once he has positive experiences, and things go back to normal, so will his behaviors...

If you allow him to fester in his cage, the problem behaviors will become worse.

You can't allow his last experience to be an extreme negative. You can't allow him to continue to react to the last negative experience he had.

Give him positive experiences...

 

[MonicaMc]

How can forcing a parrot out of it's cage be a positive experience? The bird is fearful and not trusting humans so the first thing you do is force it out of the only place the bird feels comfortable in????


Although not a large parrot, I have Jayde. She was terrified of leaving her cage, terrified of being handled by humans and had minimal physical contact with her foster mom of 6 months. She was 4 years old and I don't know what made her afraid of being physically handled. What I do know is that two weeks after having her, she was readily climbing onto my shoulder for affection. Now? I can open her cage door and she flies right to me! There was no need to force her to interact with me! I kept my interactions with her as positive as possible so she now prefers me over her cage!


http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/36663-long-overdue-intro-jayde-red-throated-conure.html

 

[SnowPhoenix]

Well, I wouldn't really call it 'forcing' him out of the cage since I don't manhandle him or anything. More like 'tricking' him to come out using his food as bait.

And here's a pic of his cage excluding the food/water trays (which I removed for cleaning). It's approximately 2' x 2' x 2.5'. Quite roomy, fully of toys and three solid wooden perches.

 

[SailBoat]

So happy that you have been able to get him out of his cage. The more often he is out the better for everyone.

Keep-up the 'Good Things Happen When You Are Out Of Your Cage!

It appears that the top may open. If true, add a perch or stand on-top of the cage.

 

[SnowPhoenix]

So happy that you have been able to get him out of his cage. The more often he is out the better for everyone.

Keep-up the 'Good Things Happen When You Are Out Of Your Cage!

It appears that the top may open. If true, add a perch or stand on-top of the cage.

Thank you! I'm very happy as well. I made more progress with him today, and also finally got my 8-week-old Conure trained to free fly around the house. I'll definitely spend equal amounts of time bonding with both birds. I'm starting to deeply fall in love with parrots - they're like little joyous featherballs.

According to the display model, the top should open and the third perch should fit right between the hatches - but when I attempted to open the top myself (and also get the worker at the store to open it), both of us were unsuccessful in our attempts. I'll try again tomorrow to see if I can somehow pry it open. I'm slightly worried I'll dent the metal frame if I apply too much pressure - so far it's heavy and durable, but one might never know. I know Julian loves to perch on high things since he feels more secure 'looking from the top'.

Also, just another passing question - should I continue to wing-clip Julian's wings every few months at the vet's for safety reasons? Unlike my conure, who can balance and surprisingly fly/land very well, Julian can't do that. He attempted a few lift-offs but always ends up in the ground, or accidently flying into solid things - so I'm worried that he'll hurt himself. He also has zero idea on how to land.

 

[Birdman666]

How can forcing a parrot out of it's cage be a positive experience? The bird is fearful and not trusting humans so the first thing you do is force it out of the only place the bird feels comfortable in????


Although not a large parrot, I have Jayde. She was terrified of leaving her cage, terrified of being handled by humans and had minimal physical contact with her foster mom of 6 months. She was 4 years old and I don't know what made her afraid of being physically handled. What I do know is that two weeks after having her, she was readily climbing onto my shoulder for affection. Now? I can open her cage door and she flies right to me! There was no need to force her to interact with me! I kept my interactions with her as positive as possible so she now prefers me over her cage!


http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/36663-long-overdue-intro-jayde-red-throated-conure.html

DID YOU READ THE "EXCITEMENT" THREAD?!

How it becomes a positive experience, is once he's out, you pamper them, and reward them and make it a really good experience for them...

AGAIN, IF WHAT I DID WAS SO OVERWHELMINGLY HORRIBLE TO THE BIRD, THEN WHY WASNT THIS FULL SIZED "AGGRESSIVE" MALE GREENWING BITING THE CRAP OUTTA ME?! No one, who espouses this theory, can explain this one to me...

THE NEGATIVE with birds who are allowed to fester in their cages, because they are afraid to come out, is the fear festers, and then they don't come out again voluntarily...

THIS IS A BIRD THAT WASN'T ALLOWING HUMANS TO HANDLE HIM, AND WOULD NOT HAVE EVER COME OUT OF HIS CAGE VOLUNTARILY BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID. FORCED TO CONFRONT THAT FEAR, HE DISCOVERED THAT BEING OUTSIDE THE CAGE CAN BE FUN...

THAT IS THE POSITIVE... the interaction outside the cage was 100% positive, and that's what you do. You make it fun for them, they realize their is nothing to be afraid of, and the next time, they come out willingly on their own... Why?! Because once they were out, it was fun for them!

LEAVING HIM TO FESTER ALONE IN THE CAGE THE REST OF HIS LIFE BECAUSE HE WAS TOO AFRAID TO TRY?! That's the most extreme negative of all.

 

[MonicaMc]

My apologies SnowPhoenix. Birdman and I disagree on a lot of things! And forcing a parrot to comply if they don't *need* to is one of those things.


Seeing the picture of the cage kind of helps! I would recommend tossing out the wooden dowel perches and replacing those with natural wood perches, and if he doesn't chew on it, maybe even a rope perch.


I would also recommend lowering the perches so at least one or two are down low enough that his head would be below the top of the cage door. That way, he can come "straight out" vs having to come down and out. Does that make sense?


Also..... put a perch on the cage door! So when it swings open, he's automatically out of the cage! (as I mentioned in a previous post)


Julian may also benefit from some more chewable toys... like ones made out of yucca, thin slats of pine or popsicle sticks!




I'm not a big fan of open top cages as I've heard of two too many stories of birds getting their head caught trying to get out of an open top cage by pushing through, then getting stuck. One bird was on an open top cage with the perch that goes between the doors. The bird decided to take off flying which dislodged the perch and one or both doors came down. If the bird couldn't have flown away from the cage and ended up falling inside instead, that could have been a very sad story instead. My preference is to keep those open top cages *securely* closed, unless you can find a way to secure the doors open without the use of the perch!



Birds can't learn to fly without the use of their wings. Keeping a bird clipped prevents them from learning how to use their wings properly. It doesn't help that many cockatiels tend to be clumsy birds and may spook easier than other birds do! Can you teach Julian to step down from your hand to the bed? You can then go from a step down to a hop, then a hop with a flap, then a hop with a couple of flaps, and eventually to actually flying to the bed. This will help him with his landing skills!

 

[Blueridge]

I wouldn't force him out of his cage. I would leave his cage door open every day for a bit of time. Parrots are quite forgiving, and I am POSITIVE that he will come around. Things like this have happened to me before. He will eventually get tired of his little ol' cage and try to explore. GOOD LUCK, I have faith in you and your bird!