Hormones

[Shoegoo]

I read that it is normal for birds to masturbate. My 4 yr. old GCC is very fond of one of her hanging toys, which is the instrument of her pleasure. Should I consider removing the toy or maybe relocating it? I've read that snuggle huts can cause hormonal issues. In her case its a hanging leather toy with a bell on the bottom.


Advice please?

 

[ParrotGenie]

I read that it is normal for birds to masturbate. My 4 yr. old GCC is very fond of one of her hanging toys, which is the instrument of her pleasure. Should I consider removing the toy or maybe relocating it? I've read that snuggle huts can cause hormonal issues. In her case its a hanging leather toy with a bell on the bottom.


Advice please?

Yes remove it as could cause hormonal issues down the road. Plus never pet wings, or toward rear of bird only head as that also triggers hormonal behavior.

 

[chris-md]

Yep, agreed, remove it. Bells were really the only thing my bird would play with, but after a couple years they became a masturbatory aid. I depressedly removed most bells from his access to keep hormones in check.

 

[noodles123]

Get rid of the snuggle hut for sure- they are dangerous for a million reasons (but they are certainly hormonal triggers, which can lead to things like masturbation etc). I would personally remove the toy as well.

Make sure you are only touching your bird on the head and neck and that you are providing 10 hours of solid sleep nightly. Do not allow access to shadowy spaces (e.g, under low ledges, under furniture, blankets, boxes, etc).

 

[Laurasea]

Just like all creatures, maturation is a normal outlet..parrots suffer a lot of sexual frustration ...
I would leave the toy.
During breeding season my parrots find all sorts of ways to self stimulate.

But I would make sure you are providing enough if your social interactions and attention. Increase foraging and out of cage time and activities. Provide more shredders and stuff to destroy. Board parrots can turn to this activity, because nit much else is going on. Or from Loneliness.

When I first got Penny she had turned a toy into a special freinds that she talked to, tried to feed ect. My excellent vet, said not to remove it, as that would cause her a lot if stress. But instead to provide more attention abd activities. Then she wouldn't need it anymore. And that did work for me , she gave up her imaginary freind on her own and never has had issues since .

 

[Shoegoo]

Her toy was do to be replaced. So I threw it out. Replaced it with two new toys. Now she has plenty of company.

 

[noodles123]

If she is timid, I'd wait to introduce new toys until they have been in her surroundings for awhile. If she seems fine with it (post replacement- then no need to remove them).

 

[plumsmum2005]

If I'd read this post a few years ago I would have firmly come down on the side of remove it. I now have a G2 who spends a fair proportion of her time 'bonking'. She uses a snuggle toy. I am on a losing streak trying to get her to stop BUT what I am doing is trying to make sure she gets the best diet possible so that there are not nasties fueling the fire so to speak. Challenging toys are also worthwhile to occupy her time.

 

[Betrisher]

Do you really think a toy or other stimulating object 'introduces hormones'?

It doesn't. The bird was born with hormones and has normally fluctuating levels of sex hormones already in its bloodstream. Masturbating is normal when an animal is unable to mate in the usual way. I would leave the toy right where it is and bless the poor bird for helping itself.

But that's just me.

Obsessive masturbation is a different matter and AFAIK, the only cure for that is the provision of an opposite-sex mate. It beats me how anyone can think it's normal or right to deprive birds of their urges just because we want to keep them in our homes.

But that's just me.

Do feel free to disagree: I thought I'd post an alternative POV for consideration.

 

[noodles123]

Do you really think a toy or other stimulating object 'introduces hormones'?

It doesn't. The bird was born with hormones and has normally fluctuating levels of sex hormones already in its bloodstream. Masturbating is normal when an animal is unable to mate in the usual way. I would leave the toy right where it is and bless the poor bird for helping itself.

But that's just me.

Obsessive masturbation is a different matter and AFAIK, the only cure for that is the provision of an opposite-sex mate. It beats me how anyone can think it's normal or right to deprive birds of their urges just because we want to keep them in our homes.

But that's just me.

Do feel free to disagree: I thought I'd post an alternative POV for consideration.

But certain things with strong associations can make them more likely to do it repeatedly--this one figured out the bell worked, but she isn't doing it with other objects at the moment. Sure, the bird might find something else, but it's going to take some time and potentially break up the cycle a bit in the meantime.

The problem with frequent masturbation is that it influences their hormones and their behavior etc. The more sexual they are, the more it can impact their mood etc--and they can get more anxious etc. In females, it can also lead to egg binding etc.

 

[Betrisher]

Or: frequent masturbation can relieve the effects of hormones during breeding season and give the bird an outlet for what might become self-destructive behaviours down the track.

Not meaning to argue, but 'the cycle' (ie. an animal's innate need to breed) is exactly that: innate. In animals, the urges to feed, nest, mate and nurture young are overwhelming, much more so than in humans, who can inhibit their urges to a certain degree. Why not permit captive creatures an outlet instead of trying to squash their normal inborn functions?

AFAIC, masturbating doesn't cause the bird any harm. I've never seen it leading to anything insidious, although I've seen plenty of singleton birds driven to all sorts of self-harm in the absence of sexual release. All the reading I've ever done on animal behaviour (and, indeed, on human behaviour) suggests that squashed sexual feelings lead to pathological conditions. So that's why I feel as I do.

PS. If a female is ready and wanting to breed, she may lay eggs. It's a natural rhythm placed in her by Nature. Masturbating doesn't cause the laying of eggs: it's part and parcel of the whole sexual reproduction thing. A sexually mature hen will lay and, perhaps, suffer egg-binding whether she masturbates or doesn't. Masturbating is an outlet, not a cause. IMHO.

PPS. Mammalian animal behaviourists treat this subject quite differently to avian ones. I wonder why? We should all ask our vets for their wisdom on the subject.

 

[noodles123]

We have different opinions, but I will say that they don't have to lay eggs--- mine took 14 years to lay 1 and that was well past sexual maturity. Sexual contact (via environment or self) can increase the odds of readiness to lay (not matter the season).

 

[Betrisher]

Why? How? Where do you get that information from? All of my zoological training indicates that it is time of year and day-length that stimulate animals to reproduce. That stimulus results in sex drive, it is not caused by sex drive. I'd be very interested to read sources that say otherwise!

 

[noodles123]

I will find it-- hold on

 

[noodles123]

[ame="https://youtu.be/dZsVT5i6pv8"]Hormonal behavior in avians - YouTube[/ame]

and this :

Here's he proof you wanted!

a vet wrote this:

"Many psittacine owners observe behaviors that range from cute to puzzling. These may in-clude intense bonding, constant egg laying, paper shredding, cavity seeking, loud vocalizations or fierce territoriality. In some instances, these behaviors may occur seasonally and have little impact on the bird's general health. In other cases, these behaviors progress from seasonal to year round and can have a very serious impact on the bird's health. Some of these behaviors, like protracted egg-laying, are obviously driven by reproductive hormones. A myriad of other behaviors, some subtle and some puzzling, may also be related to reproductive hormonal events."

Here is another source (quoting a doctor) https://summer2018.iaabcjournal.org/...nion-parrots/:

"Dr. Sharman Hoppes also draws this link between diet and behavior: “Behavioral problems that can be related to reproductive issues include feather picking, mutilation, and excessive screaming. These behaviors can also occur for other reasons, so a full evaluation must be done to determine the cause. Behavioral problems are most common in hand-raised parrots overly bonded to their owners.” She continues: “In captivity, most pet birds are kept all year at stable temperatures and are provided adequate food, which is often high in fat. This can promote breeding behavior year-round.”

and another:
"While these behaviors may happen only seasonally in the beginning, they can progress in some individuals until they occur year round. In many cases, they lead to problems such as feather damaging behavior, self-mutilation, regurgitation of food, masturbation, chronic egg-laying, egg binding and cloacal prolapse. It is not unusual for these behaviors to surface when the parrot is well into adulthood, often coming as a surprise to the owner who has come to take for granted more stable conduct."

and another
"Domestic parrots tend to have completely different environmental and lifestyle experiences than their wild cousins, resulting in physical and behavioral problems. Caretakers innocently make decisions that mess with the birds’ sexual hormones. Case in point: expecting your parrot to adapt to your sleep cycle when parrots actually need 10-12 hours of sleep. Couple lack of sleep with other lifestyle and environmental stressors (diet, improper petting, a sedentary lifestyle, or access to nesting materials) and the effect on their body and behavior can be major. We call this a chronically hormonal state and it has unhealthy consequences for your pet"[/B][/I]

and another:
.... behaviors that often result from such a diet include: intense bonding with one person in the family,
cavity-seeking behavior, paper shredding, loud demanding vocalizations, and fierce territoriality. While
it may be cute initially when a parrot becomes obsessed with getting into dark drawers or closets, or
wants to be with us constantly, these behaviors over time become problematic. And, while these
behaviors may occur only seasonally in the beginning, they can progress in some individuals until they
occur year round, developing into problems such as feather picking or feather barbering, self-mutilation,
chronic egg-laying, egg binding and cloacal prolapse

This is me ( the rest were vets)--in a house where hormonal triggers are well-controlled and sleep is regulated, you are more likely to see your clock-work, 2x yearly hormones..and certain species are worse than others about raging "off the clock", but ANY parrot can get hormonal at ANY time if the setting is conducive

 

[Betrisher]

But all of those examples say exactly what I'm saying! Normal sexualisation *results* in some unexpected behaviours including masturbation. No one said masturbation is a bad thing, they said that unsatisfied sexual urges are a bad thing.

Here's a good one for you (NB. You don't need to post multiple examples of the same thing. One will do! )

https://www.currumbinvetservices.com.au/sex-and-your-pet-bird/

Oh, and a vet wrote that too.

 

[noodles123]

The issue is that sex itself creates hormones (in humans and birds). It is a physiological response--- if a bird is getting that "high" it is going to continue seeking it out, and if it is obsessing over it to begin with, it is likely due to a trigger. I am not saying it's unnatural, but as a bird "owner" we should be doing everything we can to minimize triggers and then discourage sexual behavior (because it is reinforcing to them and will continue if they are stimulated etc). The act itself is reinforcing the hormonal production that leads to other consequences. A sexual touch (even from the bird's own claw) is still triggering hormones.

If your bird is not stimulated sexually via environment, it is FAR less likely that you will see these behaviors. It's not 100%, but if they aren't stimulated, you significantly minimize so much of this. Again, it still happens (as they really want to reproduce) but you can cut your losses by well over half if you just control the triggers and stimuli.

Also- all of the examples cited said that hormones could occur year-round...

 

[Betrisher]

Here we go again. Sorry, everyone. I'll shuddup now. -_-

 

[SailBoat]

Hmmm, when discing words regarding Hormones and what enhances the chemical rush, I find that watching closely will provide a clearer answer. Example: I have watched Amazons wind-up (increase the chemical rush) by simply increase specific aggressive play activities or being challenged by another Amazon or a very stupid Human. Have also watched the same Amazon lower the chemical (Hormonal) flow with masturbation. Have not seen masturbation enhance the chemical flow.

The clarity here is with my good friend and wordsmith Betrisher.

It is very important to remember that our Avian Medical World in still expanding its knowledge base and over the last 4 decades I have watched more than a few 180's regarding behavior and what drives it.

 

[Ellie777Australia]

Get rid of the snuggle hut for sure- they are dangerous for a million reasons (but they are certainly hormonal triggers, which can lead to things like masturbation etc). I would personally remove the toy as well.

Make sure you are only touching your bird on the head and neck and that you are providing 10 hours of solid sleep nightly. Do not allow access to shadowy spaces (e.g, under low ledges, under furniture, blankets, boxes, etc).

[FONT=&quot]This article suggests that you avoid touching the 'neck':[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]www.beautyofbirds.com/sexualbehaviorinbirds.html
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