hormones, sick, or...?

[acco205]

So I just brought my red head home about 2 weeks ago (see post in introductions) and some things are starting to go wrong...

In the store she was sweet and affectionate and seemed to love my attention but things have rapidly started to degrade and its making me worry.

quick background, shes thought to be between 3 and 7 and was given up to a bird store in mid january. her previous owner was a male and she tends to enjoy men more than women, but either way seems to have been a well loved pet. she knows a few words, knows her name and a few tricks.

WHEN SHE IS OUTSIDE THE CAGE she is still a very sweet, funny bird. readily accepts touching from me all over and will allow strangers to scratch her head and back. she readily steps up and takes treats from anyones hand.

Inside the cage is a different story.

When she first came home (day 0-7) she was very nervous and shy. she was rather shaky and confined herself to one corner of the cage (now where she sleeps). As oon as you stick your hand in the cage she would start growling and backing away, eventually nipping when you had her cornered. use a perch to get her out and she would full on attack it, but again, out of the cage, back to the sweet, wonderful bird I took home.

Over the next week she started getting chattery and talking to me again, though not much (she will gladly talk to strangers but doesnt bother to muster up a clear voice for me. I just get articulated grunts) and has gotten more playful outside of her cage. she started getting excited when I'd come home, ready to come out and play, but still, stick your hand in the cage, get nipped.

Since then I've done things like get her over excited to come out and play before opening the cage or tricking her onto my hand using treats to distract the beak, but the chain of command seems to be non existent behind those bars. even adding toys or moving things around while shes in there I'm liable to get nipped (still the same, happy bird outside though...)

Granted, this is still week 1, so I attributed it to her not fully trusting me and hoped it would get better with time.



well...its not. In fact thats why I'm here, writing this.

over the second week, things seem to have taken a turn for the worst. The territorial cage behavior is getting worse to the point where I have to fight her to get her out to work with her, then once shes out, she just wants to get back in.

in her cage room she will do what I ask and follow commands, accept head scratches and teats, all the while scoping out how to get back to the cage. In the neutral room there is no working with her. she has started growling and will not accept treats until i take her back to her cage. commands followed are limited to "up" and even then she only follows sometimes.

The other thing is she still gets excited when I enter the room (but doesn't want to be handled) and will occasionally scream a few times when I leave. She also has shown little to no interest in playing with toys (other than chewing cardboard, which she does all day)


My first thought is hormones, I know amazons can get a little feisty around this time of year and shes about the right age, my second though it sick, but she still seems like a happy bird (eating, chewing, beak griding and a little chatter.

maybe I'm just doing something wrong?

When I picked her up they said if things dont work out I could bring her back for a baby, but I dont think that is the answer and I dont want it to be the answer.

thanks in advance for the help!

Mike

 

[Ecclipse]

Hi Mike,

I have just posted a thread about my lovebird who is totally out of control and rules the roost. I have had experience with parrots but she has foxed me totally - I feel at the moment that Im not the one to be dishing out advice when my lil gal is running circles around me - hahaha. The advice I can give you though is to get her checked out by the vet so that you can make sure she is healthy. Once you have done that you can rule out sickness. Is she getting enough sleep? It takes weeks for a bird to settle in a new environment and her cage is her safe place. Let only one person handle her so that she gets used to one person. Dont rush things, Rosie takes a couple of days to a week to settle with a new toy. Let her be part of the action and daily routine and find herself. She wont be herself until she has settled..it could take weeks so dont feel dispondent.

 

[MikeyTN]

Whenever you deal with a territorial bird, don't try to do anything in their cage while they're in it. Do you have a bird stand available? Put her on it! Preferably in a different room while your working on her cage. IS she clipped? If not, get her clipped! It's so much easier to train when they're not able to fly in some cases. I had no problem training my Cockatoo and my pair of Eclectus without clipping. It really depends on your experience with birds, so far I don't think you have much experiences. It is that time of the season so she might be cranky and it makes the worst time to train. Whenever my birds are in that mood, I do not bother them cause I do not encourage the mating behavior, I know it can get pretty nasty.

She hasn't been with you that long yet, so it may just take some time and patience. We haven't had our Eclectus pair very long, not even a month yet. So far I got them trained pretty good. It really depends on the bird. I really have no idea on Amazons since I've never owned one myself. There's plenty of Amazon owners on here that may be able to help you further more as I can only tell you experiences from the other birds I've had experiences with. Good Luck!

 

[Ecclipse]

Hi Mike, how things going? Your doing a great job and your concern shows that you only want what is best for your amazon I used to own a Brown headed parrot and he was a real character. He took 3 months to settle but he had been really wild and wasnt a happy boy when I got him. I now own a lovebird who has been ruling the roost but am on a mission to get her under control - hahaha, love her too bits

With my other parrot I found that the position of the cage was wrong when I got him. I then placed him where he could see both entrances and didnt get a fright when people walked in. Parrots do very well with one person and then other people can be introduced at a later stage. I would sit next to his cage and chat to him to get him used to my voice. He would fling himself to the back of his cage when I put in food etc. I got him a play gym and wherever I was I took him with me. I put the playgym so that he could step onto it from his cage then would move the gym with me. He then got used to my voice and began to settle and enjoy his cage area. I gave him lots of toys and chewy things to play with and he slowly began to play and enjoy being a parrot. I then used my arm to get him to step up and then onto my shoulder. 6 months later he was affectionate and loved being with me. It wont take you that long as your amazon did show signs of being loving. Give him a chance and find a spot for his cage that gets him settled. Take things slow and you will find him beginning to respond - keep us updated

 

[acco205]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses!

First off, MikeyTN, you are somewhat correct, but not entirely. I have owned smaller hook bills and my family has had amazons but I never handled any of the training or socializing with the amazons so this is my first time on my own with a larger bird. I've been bitten countless times and it no longer phases me (nacho, my problem child, actually isnt that bad but she has ramped it up a bit in the last few days).

yesterday she spent the entire day in her cage, partly because I had to work, partly because when I was home she just confined herself to her food bowl and made "dont bother me" noises, so i let her be.

I've been limiting her daylight to about 11 hours per some recommendations to "shorten the day" to help combat hormonal problems which hasnt produced a big result yet, but its only been a few days.

she does have a playstand and it is in a neutral room; she also has a perch in the shower we use for training and cleaning. This morning I got her out with some patience and trickery and moved her to her stand, then we began "up" excersizes. hand to hand without a problem, back to the perch no problem, off the perch, same growling/nipping...doesnt seem to matter which perch, she just doesnt go for it...


It wouldnt be so bothersome if she hand made such progress in the first week, but now it just seems like every step we take forward we have to take one backwards.

I think tomorrow I will go get her some more cardboard/paper based toys and see if she responds to them. right now she has mostly wood and string per the recommendations of the shop (they are her supposed favourites but she seems to regard them as being in the way) and then some bits of paper, cardboard and "shredder tape" (woven palm leaves) wrapped through the bars which she enjoys..

I'll set up a vet appointment too just to rule out any health issues (she sneezes, but no nasal discharge/boogers or anything like that)

 

[MikeyTN]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses!

First off, MikeyTN, you are somewhat correct, but not entirely. I have owned smaller hook bills and my family has had amazons but I never handled any of the training or socializing with the amazons so this is my first time on my own with a larger bird. I've been bitten countless times and it no longer phases me (nacho, my problem child, actually isnt that bad but she has ramped it up a bit in the last few days).

yesterday she spent the entire day in her cage, partly because I had to work, partly because when I was home she just confined herself to her food bowl and made "dont bother me" noises, so i let her be.

I've been limiting her daylight to about 11 hours per some recommendations to "shorten the day" to help combat hormonal problems which hasnt produced a big result yet, but its only been a few days.

she does have a playstand and it is in a neutral room; she also has a perch in the shower we use for training and cleaning. This morning I got her out with some patience and trickery and moved her to her stand, then we began "up" excersizes. hand to hand without a problem, back to the perch no problem, off the perch, same growling/nipping...doesnt seem to matter which perch, she just doesnt go for it...


It wouldnt be so bothersome if she hand made such progress in the first week, but now it just seems like every step we take forward we have to take one backwards.

I think tomorrow I will go get her some more cardboard/paper based toys and see if she responds to them. right now she has mostly wood and string per the recommendations of the shop (they are her supposed favourites but she seems to regard them as being in the way) and then some bits of paper, cardboard and "shredder tape" (woven palm leaves) wrapped through the bars which she enjoys..

I'll set up a vet appointment too just to rule out any health issues (she sneezes, but no nasal discharge/boogers or anything like that)

Like you've said, you've never did any of the training before and this is your first on your own. It's different from owning a pre-trained bird then train on your own. It really takes a lot of time and patience. Just to use as an example by using my lastest addition of the family, JoJo and Gracie. JoJo needed a ton of work, he doesn't step up, he's terrified of being touched, he runs from people, he tries to bite, etc. He was like that with his previous owner. So I take him out every morning for half an hour before work to train him to step up, then when I get home, I take him out multiple times to train him, each time I spent 1-2hrs so approx. 3-4hrs of training per day. I did not clip him cause he doesn't fly very good, he's starting to get better at it now. But I had him trained to step up on the fourth day. He's no longer afraid of my hands, willingly stepping up after 2 weeks. Then I let him sit on my shoulders, he started testing his beak to see how hard he can bite. I told him no right away and got him off my shoulders and let him stay on my arms on a lower level. Then I tell him no each time he tries to bite and discourage him from doing so. Now he sits on my shoulder very nicely. He's sitting right on my shoulder while I'm typing this. It will be one month by the 11th of this month. Gracie I have no problem with her cause she behaves really good so no training was needed. I just trained JoJo to give birdie kisses and he's doing pretty good, I trust him with my face. He would turn his cheek towards me to give him a kiss and he kisses me right back gently.

In order to get yours trained, you need to work with her often day and night. That's what it takes to properly train a bird before they're set in their ways on dominating you. It didn't matter how tired I was, I knew it needed to be done right from the start. Owning a bird takes dedication!

 

[acco205]

Quick update today:

She's molting! (go figure)

Seems a little early to me, but it has been vary warm in the last few days.

Once out of her cage we did a little training. She's still resistive when on a perch (does not seem to be limited to the cage or anything that's "hers," more anything she can sit on that isn't me) but if I show her a towel in one hand and a treat in the other she stops acting up instantly. (I've yet to towel her, but she gets it).

I've refrained from petting except for the head where she can't reach to scratch and she's really calmed down; not completely, she's still on edge, but much closer to the bird I took home.

A lot to deal with in the first month, I'm sure it's not easy on her either.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

--edit--

She actually is/was a very well trained bird. Her owner ha to give her up because he lost his job and couldn't keep her. She was very friendly, affectionate and sweet when she came home which is why I was concerned when she started acting crazy (see first post)

 

[Ecclipse]

Your doing a great job, keep taking it easy Mike. I know the frustration and feeling of helplessness. You have had experience before with birds and that will put you in good stead to work with your Amazon. It will take time but with love and patience those large steps your feeling your taking back will begin to go forward. Your making sure he is getting enough sleep, being stimulated with toys and making him feel safe in his environment. Everything is there in place and he will come round and start to settle - time....

 

[Ecclipse]

I must disagree with MikeyTN, I feel that we all have opinions and different training methods and its good for people to view theres. I feel that being tired when training your parrot will only make you more cranky and frustrated. Maybe take a step back and just get to know your parrot before trying to train him. They are so bright and its like landing from another country with jet lag - he is bewildered and settling, talk to him and let him know he loved. Don't try to push the training until he is settled. Let him be with you as much as possible but in a non-threatening way. You can then cross the bridge of serious training when he is calmer and more settled.

 

[Ecclipse]

Quick update today:

She's molting! (go figure)

Seems a little early to me, but it has been vary warm in the last few days.

Once out of her cage we did a little training. She's still resistive when on a perch (does not seem to be limited to the cage or anything that's "hers," more anything she can sit on that isn't me) but if I show her a towel in one hand and a treat in the other she stops acting up instantly. (I've yet to towel her, but she gets it).

I've refrained from petting except for the head where she can't reach to scratch and she's really calmed down; not completely, she's still on edge, but much closer to the bird I took home.

A lot to deal with in the first month, I'm sure it's not easy on her either.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

--edit--

She actually is/was a very well trained bird. Her owner ha to give her up because he lost his job and couldn't keep her. She was very friendly, affectionate and sweet when she came home which is why I was concerned when she started acting crazy (see first post)

Yipppeee - you are already sounding more postive. I just love the feeling when you feel a small amount of progress was made - . Please keep us posted!

 

[acco205]

Haha, I just feel like a bewildered new parent, jumping every time she does something new.

When she got her first bath I called everyone I knew who cared to tell them she knew how to say "water"


I was able to get her out this morning without issue. I offered my hand, no growling but she backed away nervously at first. After some praise she came right out. Overjoyed! (but talk about mood swings!) either way, no nipping!

 

[Ecclipse]

Haha, I just feel like a bewildered new parent, jumping every time she does something new.

When she got her first bath I called everyone I knew who cared to tell them she knew how to say "water"


I was able to get her out this morning without issue. I offered my hand, no growling but she backed away nervously at first. After some praise she came right out. Overjoyed! (but talk about mood swings!) either way, no nipping!

Hahahaha Im exactly the same Mike. I even put Rosie's first bath on youtube - hahaha. Its a great feeling. I took Rosie to the bathroom for some Rosie Military Camp - hahaha, had her a year but have let her get so out of control. We moved, new job and alot of stress so getting back into extra bonding with my gal. I was able to stroke her but my hands look like someone has staple gunned them. Never ever underestimate a lovebird Im so happy she came out of her cage - yes!!!!!!!

Please put some pics of him on the forum so we can see How does he bath? Rosie loves the spray then starts off slowly dunking herself and then picks up speed until her whole body is nearly in the bowl. We are hitting winter so she wont be bathing as much.

 

[MikeyTN]

I must disagree with MikeyTN, I feel that we all have opinions and different training methods and its good for people to view theres. I feel that being tired when training your parrot will only make you more cranky and frustrated. Maybe take a step back and just get to know your parrot before trying to train him. They are so bright and its like landing from another country with jet lag - he is bewildered and settling, talk to him and let him know he loved. Don't try to push the training until he is settled. Let him be with you as much as possible but in a non-threatening way. You can then cross the bridge of serious training when he is calmer and more settled.

Whatever works for you since your Lovebird was attacking recently.... training while tired may not be for everyone, just depends how dedicated you are!!!

My mind is pretty clear during training! And I don't have issues with birds trying to dominate. Zero issues unless it has to do with hormones, then its out of my hands!

 

[MikeyTN]

Haha, I just feel like a bewildered new parent, jumping every time she does something new.

When she got her first bath I called everyone I knew who cared to tell them she knew how to say "water"


I was able to get her out this morning without issue. I offered my hand, no growling but she backed away nervously at first. After some praise she came right out. Overjoyed! (but talk about mood swings!) either way, no nipping!

I wasn't awared you got her from someone already trained. I thought you got her from a petshop or something. She was probably just freaking out from a new surrounding area. She's probably coming out of her shell now.... Good luck with her!!!