Hormonal Males

[coopedup]

I know Chris has had recent experience with this, so I'd appreciate any input from the group that can help me.

Ive had Wrangler for about 10 days and he's been in his CA home for a week now. He's settling in, but still very insecure about things so Im taking it slowly. As I posted yesterday, he tried to feed me, started regurgitating on me, and then decided that my hand was a good ummm"partner" for his lust. He regurged alllll over my hand last night and I quietly let him but I read up a bit on this behaviour. The articles sugggest avoiding certain petting or triggers so this morning I was very aware of my interaction with him. Immediately after I let him out of the cage he started to bob his head and I knew what was coming. I hadnt had any physical contact with him other than to do a step up to come down off the cage.

I put him on the table stand and he jumped over to Liesl's cage and immediately got territorial. All of a sudden I was an intruder--I could barely get the cover over her cage with him lunging and growling and biting at me.
While Im happy that he has bonded with me (not sure that is completely true). He is also very aggressive in his preening--almost attacking his feathers at times. If you recall from Brittany's posts, he came to her in pretty rough shape and he doesnt have a lot of feathers, mostly down at this point. I do not want to promote or do anything (or not do something) that is inadvertently reinforcing behaviours I do not want or that are unhealthy for either Wrangler or Liesl. Should I just let the hormonal behaviour play itself out? Should I allow him to regurgitate on my hand or not? (i prefer NOT) I have put a blanket on the end of Liesl's crate so they dont have direct view of each other. What should I be doing that Im not doing?

 

[plumsmum2005]

Hi sorry for the yukky bits you are suffering at the moment, I have managed to find this so hope it helps you.

aggression

 

[SailBoat]

The combination of transitioning to a new home and therefore new Human(s) can result in any number of reactions. A start of a Hormonal cycle is not commonly at the top of the list. Having said that, what he is presenting sure has all the signs of one.

Regarding Bonding. Bonding is a relationship and commonly takes awhile to develop. Yes, there are those lucky few that are matches made in Heaven. So, it is likely that some, but not everything, is tied to his being Hormonal!

At present, as you stated, the Hormonal response needs to stop. I do not have great knowledge base regarding Eclectus Parrots. So, what time a year and how long they are normally Hormonal, I will leave to you and others. I will guess that it like most Parrots is early to mid-Winter. So, it is fair to say that your Parrot is having an out of sequence (normal time cycle) Hormonal Event!

The most common, especially with a rehomed Parrot is the issue of a lack of good, dark and restful sleep! So, at this point, you need to reset his year clock to late Winter. So, targeting as close to 12 hours of restful sleep become one of the quickest ways to get this to happen. The downside is that your household needs to reflect the same. Dark and without the TV, etc....

Handling your Parrot is all about location. Upper body and head are OK and everything else is not.

Foods: Dry Foods and Chop based around your Parrots good health. No warm mush!

Interact with your Eclectus as normal, but increase the number of time-out periods to limit getting him lite-up.

There are a few others, but this will get you started.

Good Luck and enjoy catching-up on your sleep!

 

[chris-md]

Aw shucks, I'm sorry you're experiencing this. I know how frustrating it is. You can always use a thick glove to handle him if necessary when he gets aggressive.

I'm not experienced really in dealing with this, I just have a fact I've heard and conjecture.

Fact: birds that are coming from very neglected backgrounds can often develop hormonal behavior once they start getting proper treatment. Show love, they give love.

Conjecture: should generally ease up with a bit of time if you set boundaries - proper touching, discipline biting behavior, ignore masturbating behavior and setting him down for cool off time (not a punishment, just a redirect).

In my eyes It is NOT a coincidence that hormones are happening right now. They aren't arising because it's "that time of year". It's a sign you're doing something right. But at the same time At 10 days You are only just starting to bond. So the bird is naturally still unsure so may continue to display avoidance and aggression. Bit of a dr. Jekyll/mr. Hyde "I love you but I don't know you so don't trust you" situation. This is a prime time to make sure the bird knows the rules and boundaries. He's the most impressionable. Use it to your advantage.

Good luck to you!!! Keep us updated!

 

[coopedup]

THe only aggression he has shown recently (after the first week, when he was still uncertain about things/me) was in defending Liesl's cage. He is only interested in toys/play when he is in his cage. When I let him out he is singularly focused on how to reach her cage, or to get on me so that he can give my hand his love offerings. I cant even pick him up without the head bobbing starting, so Im not sure how Im supposed to interact with him or set boundaries. He still shows moments of uncertainty around me ie: wary of a second hand approaching, attempts to touch him anywhere other than beak, but overall he steps up easily and allows me to enter his cage to make changes/adjustments to things. His new cage arrived today so I will get it set up and transfer him over this weekend, which will also free up the crate so he can get some outside time. Maybe direct sunlight will help a bit.

He's also talking more--cant always make out what he says because he waits til Im out of the room, but we've picked up the standard wolf whistle, and "pretty boy". Im going to make a cover out of blackout drapery material to help him get better sleep---right now he's my night owl, stays active until 10pm while Liesl is asleep at 8.

I moved one of his perches to the outside of the cage and tied a foraging/shredding toy next to it to give himsomething to do while outside of the cage, besides stalk Liesl and try and feed my hand but he is still pretty focused on me/her despite my trying to redirect his attention.

 

[chris-md]

I wish I had more advice for you, but I'm just not that experienced. The rubbing I know you just set them back on the stand/in the cage for a cool down period (that is boundary setting) but bobbing of the head...I just don't know.

 

[coopedup]

The hormones are still raging--I cant really interact with him because he is obsessed with feeding my hand. Since I wont allow this, and I dont want to deprive him of out of cage time or punish him for it I let him roam the top of his cage without handling him. He has a large "pineapple" shred toy on top of the cage that he is now feeding and tries to mate with--those prickly spines have GOT to hurt, so it's a bit comical--not to mention it rolls around and he finds it difficult to balance. Is it detrimental to let him continue this behaviour, even if it is with a toy? Not sure how to divert him, other than with food, when he's so singularly focused.

 

[SailBoat]

So how close to 12 hours of dark restful sleep is he getting.

Letting him get direct Sun Light is always helpful.

 

[coopedup]

He's awake at 5:30 am...even though I cover his cage. I come down between 6 and 7am depending on how noisy he is. Not sure if this is because he's not made the adjustment to the 3 hour time difference between east coast and west coast...or that it's light here at that time. He does his best talking in the morning when he thinks no one is listening! Now that they both have proper cages the travel crate is available and I plan on taking him outside as much as possible for direct sunlight--a few hours a day, but sheltered since CA sun is very intense, dont want him getting sunburned. His cage is next to a window but they are double paned and also anti-UVB? He's got a good view but im not sure he's getting the vitamin D/full spectrum inside. He's a quaking mass of feathers when he's outside, but he'll adjust.

 

[SailBoat]

Hmm, must of missed the issue regarding Time Zone Change. Heck, I'm a bear when I do a East / West thing. Yup, you got a Parrot with a sleeping pattern issue!

Work on getting him adjusted to the Time Zone Shift! Life should be better, once he adjusts.

 

[Anansi]

Yep, he's sounding quite hormonal to me! And yes, it is very possible that the 3 hour time change has exacerbated this.

To answer your questions, no, you shouldn't allow him to regurgitate on you. Anytime you see the telltale head bobbing, you should put him back on his stand. As Chris said, not as a punishment. It's a natural behavior, after all. Another tactic is redirection. You can give him something to chew on the instant you see the onset of this behavior. Sometimes a distraction can snap them right out of it.

Stroking of the back, under the wings, or (obviously) by the vent area risks arousal and should be avoided.

As Sailboat mentioned, the amount of sleep is very important. Extended daylight hours will get them in hormonal mode as well.

Oh! And as for your question about whether or not he's getting the proper amount of vitamin D from inside? Definitely not. Even clear glass is blocking out the elements of the sunlight needed for his necessary dose of Vitamin D. He needs to be outside for that. Direct sunlight. (Limited, of course, on excessively hot days.)

 

[coopedup]

Talk about being a bear! Mr Grouchy has reverted back to dont touch me mode....lunging at me when im near the cage, etc. We had outside time today...about an hour (i know, he needs more, im working on it). I left his cage cover rolled up on top of the cage today and he decided to feed it and umm---do a bit of bumping and grinding . Should I get him a toy or will that only make it worseProlong it?

 

[coopedup]

I gave him a stuffed animal to ummm "play" with...poor bunny. At least it's washable. His appetite has decreased, though his weight is still decent. He's around 450 at the moment. He barbered his first feather last night too. Sadly, it was one of the decent ones---and he doesnt have all that many to shred. There are two new tail feathers starting to come in, I hope he leaves them alone. The three he has now are beyond ratty.

He was outside yesterday for nearly 3 hours, not all at one time, but Im trying to increase his sun intake/outside time. I covered his cage at 7:30 but the neighbors recently remodeled their patio and moved a fire pit and bench/conversation are right up against the common fence, which is just a few feet from Wranglers window so despite the cage cover up there was ample noise and distraction from outside for several hours. Im thinking of having the AV come out to discuss his overall care and hormonal state to see what I can do to improve things for him, get an evaluation of his feather condition, get his band removed, have him chipped, and make any other recommendations. I'd like to give the new routine (increased sunlight, earlier bed time) a bit more time to see if it is making any difference, but the feather loss last night was a huge blow to me.

 

[Anansi]

Talk about being a bear! Mr Grouchy has reverted back to dont touch me mode....lunging at me when im near the cage, etc. We had outside time today...about an hour (i know, he needs more, im working on it). I left his cage cover rolled up on top of the cage today and he decided to feed it and umm---do a bit of bumping and grinding . Should I get him a toy or will that only make it worseProlong it?

If he starts getting friendly with one of his toys, I don't see it as a problem unless it begins to incite other behaviors. It's just a release for him, and it certainly beats him using your hand for his amorous endeavors.

As for the cage aggression, you could stick train him so that you save your fingers a bit. Use a T perch if possible, and then work with him out of sight of the cage.

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[Anansi]

How much weight has he lost with this appetite decrease? And how long has it been going on?

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[coopedup]

Im not sure how much he's lost, Im just guessing that he has because of the lack of gusto in eating this last week. More food is leftover and he's usually pretty good about digging in to his veggies. I just started weighing him a few days ago. Up until then it wasnt really possible to get him to hold still long enough to get the weight. His keel/breast feels fine, no protrusions but Im going to contact the vet who gave him his pre flight health exam to get the weight from them and send the records down so I will have them as part of my file when we see the local AV. I gave him some of Liesl's formula last night, which he seemed to like. I know warm/mushy is not ideal for a hormonal bird, but keeping his weight up is a larger concern for me. OTH, Liesl is now up to 320G.

We had a bit of a break thru last night in that he let me touch him while holding him. Usually he is wary of a second hand approaching but we've been working on it and I finally got him to accept my touch. Sure, there were the token growls and shoving the finger away, but I got a good bit of cheek, neck, chest and even back touching in with no wounds. There was only a little head bobbing and mild regurge attempts, so Im hoping that the stuffed bunny distraction is working. I concentrated away from "hot zones" but I want to start harness training him before he molts out the clipped feathers and handling him is essential. He hasnt bitten me in two weeks now..i get growled at some, and beaked a lot...but Ive learned its either being pissy/last word that he was put back in his cage like a mild tantrum or just posturing, insecurity and self defense. He did try and feed the metal cage lock on top of his cage...he doesnt seem too particular at times. Im letting him hang out on top of his cage for several hours throughout the day so that he feels he has a bit of freedom. I am working on the tree stand but he doesnt feel comfortable there. He freezes up and shakes. I have a shorter branch but havent had time to make it into a stand just yet. He jumps off the table perch quickly--clearly I need to learn how to train (both of them) how to "stay".