Help!!!

[wajahat]

i have this pair of alexandrine parrakeet. the pair is sitting on fertile eggs at the moment but the problem im facing is that their poop contains undigested seeds its of greenish color, sometimes black and some of it is even gray
i give them seed mix, friuts, boiled eggs and bread.
PLEASE HELP ANYONE!!!

 

[noodles123]

I am sorry you are dealing with this. Thanks for reaching out.

I'm not a vet and you need to consult one right away, but this sounds a lot like PDD (Proventricular Dilation Disease). You need to get your birds tested (any birds in your home). One of the main symptoms is crop-stasis and undigested food in droppings. Again, I am not a vet and there may be other causes, but you need to look into PDD and take precautions until you know what is going on here.
https://www.animalgenetics.us/avian/Disease_Testing/Bornavirus.asp

The disease is highly contagious and viral. It can be spread bird to bird, but there are also cases of vertical transmission (mother-egg). It is spread through contact with fecal matter, and/or oral secretions.


If your birds do have this, you will need to sterilize your home carefully before bringing other birds into the home (do not get new birds while you have PDD/ABV positive birds living there). Until you know what is going on, do not expose other birds. You must keep this in mind when considering whether to visit a place that houses birds, as you yourself could transmit the virus on your clothes, shoes, hair etc. If you currently have multiple birds, you must quarantine them from those in question immediately. Again, do not assume that they aren't infected or contagious just because they aren't showing symptoms-- the common precursor is often asymptomatic (ABV). They all need to get tested if it turns out that either of your Alexandrines has it. You should very thoroughly wash your hands and arms between handing birds within your home (if you have others). Once a bird is a carrier, they are a carrier for life (even though they will sometimes test negative, due to the intermittent shedding of the virus).

Some birds can be infected with ABV (a common precursor to PDD, but not always) and show no symptoms. These same birds can spread the virus to others..The birds that are then infected often become very sick/symptomatic, so just because a bird catches it from a carrier doesn't mean that the newly infected bird will also be a carrier.

 

[wajahat]

I'm not a vet and you need to consult one, but this sounds a lot like PDD (Proventricular Dilation Disease). You need to get your birds tested (any birds in your home). One of the main symptoms is crop-stasis (which is what you are describing). Again, I am not a vet and there may be other causes, but you need to look into PDD.
https://www.animalgenetics.us/avian/Disease_Testing/Bornavirus.asp

The disease is highly contagious and viral. It can be spread bird to bird, but there are also cases of vertical transmission (mother-egg). It is spread through contact with fecal matter, and/or oral secretions.

If your birds do have this, you will need to sterilize your home carefully before bringing other birds into the home. Until you know what is going on here, do not expose other birds. You must keep this in mind when considering whether to visit a place that houses birds, as you yourself could transmit the virus on your clothes, shoes, hair etc.

Some birds can be infected with ABV (a common precursor to PDD, but not always) and show no symptoms. These same birds can spread the virus to others..The birds that are then infected often become very sick/symptomatic, so just because a bird catches it from a carrier doesn't mean that the newly infected bird will also be a carrier.

I have other birds which include sun conures and ringnecks. All other birds are fine (not infected) I guess it's because of any other cause.
And The pair is showing no other sign of sickness.


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[noodles123]

No, unless you have had PCR tests done, there is no way you can know this. Asymptomatic means without symptoms and this virus is often asymtomatic for years. It is still VERY contagious and for some birds, they show symptoms right away.You must not take this likely (for your birds' sakes, but also for the sake of those you may inadvertently spread it to outside of your home).

 

[wajahat]

No, unless you have had PCR tests done, there is no way you can know this. Asymptomatic means without symptoms and this virus is often asymtomatic for years. It is still VERY contagious and for some birds, they show symptoms right away.

Okay I'll get the tests done


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[noodles123]

No, unless you have had PCR tests done, there is no way you can know this. Asymptomatic means without symptoms and this virus is often asymtomatic for years. It is still VERY contagious and for some birds, they show symptoms right away.

Okay I'll get the tests done


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Test the Alexandrines first. Then test the others if they test positive. Just remember to wash hands thoroughly when going cage to cage, touching food cups, touching water, cleaning poop etc. Even when touching things that belong to seemingly healthy birds, you must wash well (due to the carrier issue). There are other members on this forum who have dealt with this too, so I will see if I can find a link to those posts. It is good that your other birds appear to be healthy, but I am glad you are testing, because that is the only way to know for sure. Get them to the vet as soon as you possibly can---preferably a certified avian vet. Tell them ahead of time what you are seeing with their droppings.

 

[Allee]

Welcome to the forums, I’m glad you joined us. I moved your thread from General Health Care to our section for Breeding/Raising Parrots, I think you’re likely to get more specific answers from our members who have experience with breeding birds. If you could, a little background on your set up would be helpful, is this your first time to care for a breeding pair?

We have some expert poopologists who will probably be along to offer good advice. Undigested seed is always alarming and it’s important to find the cause as quickly as possible. There’s multiple possible causes and only a certified avian vet is qualified to make a diagnosis.

 

[wajahat]

Welcome to the forums, I’m glad you joined us. I moved your thread from General Health Care to our section for Breeding/Raising Parrots, I think you’re likely to get more specific answers from our members who have experience with breeding birds. If you could, a little background on your set up would be helpful, is this your first time to care for a breeding pair?

We have some expert poopologists who will probably be along to offer good advice. Undigested seed is always alarming and it’s important to find the cause as quickly as possible. There’s multiple possible causes and only a certified avian vet is qualified to make a diagnosis.

Yes it's my first experience with parrots and their breeding.
I live in Pakistan and here people mostly keep cats and dogs so I don't know any certified avian vet.
I'd be thankful if anyone could just tell me that what up with this pair of parakeets.
I'm really worried.


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[Allee]

Thank you, I have no personal experience with breeding but we have members that do. Until you receive replies from our experts, here’s a little advice that may be helpful. Breeding can be extremely stressful for your birds, are they in a quiet, secluded place? Diet is always important, especially to a breeding pair, I would offer chopped vegetables, lots of dark green leafy veggies. Maybe cooked cereals or grains but no bread and only a little fruit, the high sugar content in fruit and bread make it a bad diet choice. Do you feed pellets at all? When you feed a seed mix, it’s important the seeds are fresh, you can often tell by smelling, if the seeds have no smell they probably have little or no nutritional value. It’s always important to keep the birds’ area as clean as possible. After feeding fresh food of any kind it’s best to remove anything remaining after you’ve seen the birds eat, two hours is the limit for any fresh food and some foods shouldn’t remain that long. All poop should be removed from thier cage daily even when you can’t clean the nest box. Provide fresh paper or nesting material as needed, poop is a perfect place to grow bacteria.

Best of luck with your pair.

 

[EllenD]

That's not good at all...

As Noodles already wisely told you, usually when a bird is passing undigested food in their poop, it's due to either an Avian Viral Disease, specifically PDD or ABV or both, or it's due to another very serious health condition that is effecting their GI Tract, their Liver, their Kidneys, or both...But usually it is a Viral Disease such as PDD...

You need to get them both to a Certified Avian Vet (no Exotics Vets, they need an experienced Avian Vet) immediately, because as long as they pass whole, undigested food in their droppings, that means that they are not taking in much, if any nutrition, and they are going to rapidly start losing weight and become extremely sick...And there is no way at all that either of them can feed chicks in this condition, it will kill them and kill the chicks because neither of them will be getting any nutrition, and the strain will quickly kill the parents if they aren't getting any nutrition..

Just because the other birds in your house aren't exhibiting the same symptoms doesn't mean that this pair that lives together in the same cage doesn't have PDD/ABV or some other serious illness/disease, as most Avian Viruses are shedded in their feathers/dander etc., and unless they've had direct-contact with these two birds or their cage, then they may very well not contract the disease...or they may all have contracted it and are just in the incubation period and haven't started displaying any physical symptoms...Some birds will contract ABV or PDD and not ever show any signs/symptoms, they simply shed the Virus and they're fine, but that's obviously not the case with this breeding-pair. So they need to see a CAV immediately, before they start displaying more serious symptoms, such as the neurological symptoms that usually follow.

And again, they cannot feed chicks as long as they are passing whole-food in their feces, it will kill both the parents and the chicks...

 

[Allee]

Folks, please keep in mind, not all of our members have access to veterinary care. Even when the best possible course of action is an immediate appointment with a certified avian specialist, it can’t always be done.

 

[EllenD]

Something that I forgot to add is that the fact that BOTH of the birds living together are passing whole, undigested food in their feces obviously means that it's a contagious pathogen that they both have. That's what makes this very scary and very probably that they both have a serious Avian Viral Disease like ABV or PDD. If it was only one of them then that would be a totally different story...but unfortunately they've both got something serious going on...

 

[itzjbean]

i give them seed mix, friuts, boiled eggs and bread.
PLEASE HELP ANYONE!!!

You have gotten some good advice already about getting these birds disease tested. I see that you are feeding them bread, which is a big no-bo! Bread is not good for our birds to have all the time, maybe a bite here and there but having it every day can lead to problems!! Digestive problems and they don't pass it very well. No more bread!!

 

[wajahat]

Since you guys have told me that this is a serious issue. I have been trying to find an avian vet or diagnostics lab from where I can get the tests done. But I can't find any where I live.
Well, everybody thank you so much for your replies, I really appreciate that.
And I'll update here if things get better or if I'm able to get the tests done.


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[EllenD]

I wish there was something we could tell you to do at home for them, but this is one of those health issues that just isn't something that is going to be easy to do anything about without knowing what the issue causing it is...

However, what you do need to do and can do from home is to first separate these two birds into a totally separate room from your other birds, so that if they do have a Viral Disease you can at least try to protect your other birds from getting it by protecting them from the feathers, dander, etc. of these two birds. That would be the first thing I would do...

***Let's assume that they do in-fact have a Viral Disease like PDD...It's not necessarily fatal, and they can shed the disease, and getting them through this is going to be all about keeping the nourished and stress-free...So, you said that they are sitting on eggs right now, correct? If I were you, and probably what any Avian Vet would tell you to do would be to not allow the eggs to hatch, because there is no way that either of these birds can feed babies at all, let alone for weeks and weeks. They aren't digesting adequate nutrition for themselves right now, so they certainly can't feed babies. I'm actually very confident and comfortable saying that if you allow the eggs to hatch and they have to feed babies, that both the parents and the babies are probably going to die of starvation/malnutrition. And I don't know if you've every hand-raised/hand-fed baby birds before, or if you have a proper Brooder to house them in, etc., but it's so difficult hand-feeding baby birds during their first 2 weeks of life, they typically die of either Aspiration of formula into their lungs, which is an instant death with babies only 1-2 weeks old due to their small lung size, or they die in a matter of days due to malnourishment or due to infections because their immune systems are not developed until they are about 2 weeks old, which is why breeders wait to pull them from the nest-box to hand-raise them until they are at least 2 weeks old, and no older than 3 weeks old...You could certainly try to pull them from the nest-box as they hatch, put them in a Brooder with an ambient temperature between 90-95 degrees F until their down-feathers grow in, then the ambient temperature can be dropped to between 80-85 degrees F until their mature feathers all grow-in, then they move into their first Weaning/Starter Cage...You'd also have to have all the hand-feeding supplies, including a cooking/candy thermometer with a metal probe so that you can ensure that the formula you're feeding them is ALWAYS between 104 degrees F and 110 degrees F, any cooler and they will die of a Fungal infection, any hotter and their Crops will burn...You'll need a commercial hand-feeding formula for baby birds, such as Kaytee or Roudybush, along with an eye-dropper to feed them for the first 2 weeks, then you can switch-over to an oral-syringe. But you have to be extremely careful to only put droplets of formula on their tongues or into their beaks and let them swallow it slowly, because it's just so easy to aspirate the formula into their lungs when they are so little...

Either way I wouldn't even attempt allowing this pair to feed the babies, because their chance of shedding any Viral disease that they have and surviving it become slim to none if they are feeding babies, and again the babies will also die because the food they will be feeding them will not be digested, so the babies won't be getting any nutrition either...If I were you, and I'm saying this as a breeder/hand-raiser of over 20 years, but I would probably try to hand-raise/hand-feed the babies from the moment they hatch, but ONLY if you have the equipment and supplies that you need, because if you don't have a Brooder or at least a homemade Brooder that can keep the chicks at the adequate ambient temperature then they don't have a chance...So if you have all of the necessary equipment to house and feed them, then I'd pull each chick as it hatches and give it a try, because allowing the parents to feed them is going to end horribly for both the parents and the babies.

As far as the parents go, all you can do is "Supportive Care", which means keeping them very well-hydrated (if you have access to an electrolyte supplement like Pedialyte that would be best, but if not then water is fine), and you need to start feeding them nutrient-dense food that is easy to digest and process...Seeds obviously aren't going to work, they are getting no nutrition at all from them when they pass whole an still in the shells...As Itzjbean already mentioned, NO MORE BREAD!!! It's nothing but sugar/carbs and it has absolutely no nutritional value to your birds...

You need to start feeding them high protein, high calorie food that is safe for them and that is easy to digest...Cooked/Scrambled Eggs are very good, you can try to grind the actual Egg-Shells into a very fine powder (mortar and pestle works best) and mix the powdered shells into the liquid eggs and then cook them, so they're getting the added Calcium, however if you don't get the shells ground into a powder that will mix well into the eggs, then the egg shell bits will just pass right out in their droppings just like the seeds do...But cooked Eggs are a good start...

***Do you have access to a commercially-sold hand-feeding formula for baby birds, such as Kaytee or Roudybush? Kaytee is probably the most-commonly sold hand-feeding formula for baby birds, and you can also buy it online...You'll not only need this if you're going to attempt to hand-feed the babies, BUT IT'S ALSO THE BEST THING YOU CAN FEED THE TWO PARENTS RIGHT NOW AS WELL...Baby bird hand-feeding formula is very nutrient rich, with lots of protein, fat, calories, and all of the amino acids/digestive enzymes added-in, along with added Probiotics, and these are going to help your birds to digest their food and absorb the nutrition for it...

If you lived in the US I would tell you to start adding a Digestive-Enzyme supplement to ALL of the food you feed the parents, because this is typically what an Avian Vet is going to suggest for birds with PDD or ABV that are not digesting their food...They are going to put them on a diet of either baby-bird hand-feeding formula multiple times a day, or a high-calorie Veterinary supplemental formula for birds, such as Emerald Critical Care. Both of these are not only very nutrient-dense and contain a ton of protein, fat, carbs, etc., but they also both contain added Digestive-Enzymes, Pre-Biotics, and Probiotics to help their bodies to digest everything they eat. You can buy supplements here made for people that are a tablet that contains both a mix of Probiotics and Digestive Enzymes that you can crush into a powder...I don't know what you have available to you or if you can order things online. If you can, then you need to order a good amount of baby-bird handfeeding formula, preferably the Kaytee Exact "High-Fat" Hand-Feeding Formula, as it contains everything that they need to sustain them while they hopefully shed the PDD or ABV virus...So you'd need to feed both of them multiple times a day with an oral syringe (if you had an Avian Vet they would "Tube-Feed" or "Crop-Feed" them with a special Crop-Needle, but you can't do that if you don't know how and don't have a Crop-Needle)...So you'll have to hand-feed the parents the formula multiple times a day just like you would the babies...Otherwise the aren't going to get enough nutrition and they are going to start losing weight quickly...

 

[Laurasea]

I'm sorry you have such sick birds. I hadn't seen poop that bad before. So it makes me think more acute gastritis, leaning toward bacterial like salmonella... Or viral. If it happened all of a sudden.
I wish I knew of ways to help you. But there just isn't any way with put vet help and medicine that I know of. So sorry you ate going through this. I sure hope they survive and you can find help..

 

[noodles123]

If you have a zoo or something nearby, that vet might be able to help (or a bird sanctuary?)--They would likely need to visit your birds in a neutral location (not near their birds- in case this is contagious),but maybe you could explain what you are seeing and get their opinion over the phone and set up a meeting.
Are there any long-time bird keepers in the area who you could call to ask about viral testing /medical treatments etc?

Poultry-types (chickens, geese etc) can catch PDD too, so even a farm vet might have some experience with it...Again, we just can't be certain that this is PDD without testing. That having been said, a farm vet may have seen it enough to make an educated guess if they deal with birds...If it is something else, maybe they have seen it in their birds as well. Parrots are unique in many ways, but you have to work with the resources you have, so you might call around.

I wish there was something I could do to help!


If you are unable to determine whether or not this is PDD, then I would treat them as though they have it until you know (even if you can't be sure, it isn't something you want to gamble with). Consequently, in addition to following Ellen's advice etc, I would quarantine the Alexandrines and hand-wash thoroughly between any/all of your birds (even the ones who appear to be healthy). A "carrier" can live a full life in many cases but once a bird is infected (whether or not they show symptoms) they can spread the virus to others throughout their lives. I would take extra care between handling/ feeding etc. Again, I am not a vet, but since there is a chance that this is viral, it is best to err on the side of caution.



I really hope you are able to find someone who can help.

 

[wajahat]

I wish there was something we could tell you to do at home for them, but this is one of those health issues that just isn't something that is going to be easy to do anything about without knowing what the issue causing it is...

However, what you do need to do and can do from home is to first separate these two birds into a totally separate room from your other birds, so that if they do have a Viral Disease you can at least try to protect your other birds from getting it by protecting them from the feathers, dander, etc. of these two birds. That would be the first thing I would do...

***Let's assume that they do in-fact have a Viral Disease like PDD...It's not necessarily fatal, and they can shed the disease, and getting them through this is going to be all about keeping the nourished and stress-free...So, you said that they are sitting on eggs right now, correct? If I were you, and probably what any Avian Vet would tell you to do would be to not allow the eggs to hatch, because there is no way that either of these birds can feed babies at all, let alone for weeks and weeks. They aren't digesting adequate nutrition for themselves right now, so they certainly can't feed babies. I'm actually very confident and comfortable saying that if you allow the eggs to hatch and they have to feed babies, that both the parents and the babies are probably going to die of starvation/malnutrition. And I don't know if you've every hand-raised/hand-fed baby birds before, or if you have a proper Brooder to house them in, etc., but it's so difficult hand-feeding baby birds during their first 2 weeks of life, they typically die of either Aspiration of formula into their lungs, which is an instant death with babies only 1-2 weeks old due to their small lung size, or they die in a matter of days due to malnourishment or due to infections because their immune systems are not developed until they are about 2 weeks old, which is why breeders wait to pull them from the nest-box to hand-raise them until they are at least 2 weeks old, and no older than 3 weeks old...You could certainly try to pull them from the nest-box as they hatch, put them in a Brooder with an ambient temperature between 90-95 degrees F until their down-feathers grow in, then the ambient temperature can be dropped to between 80-85 degrees F until their mature feathers all grow-in, then they move into their first Weaning/Starter Cage...You'd also have to have all the hand-feeding supplies, including a cooking/candy thermometer with a metal probe so that you can ensure that the formula you're feeding them is ALWAYS between 104 degrees F and 110 degrees F, any cooler and they will die of a Fungal infection, any hotter and their Crops will burn...You'll need a commercial hand-feeding formula for baby birds, such as Kaytee or Roudybush, along with an eye-dropper to feed them for the first 2 weeks, then you can switch-over to an oral-syringe. But you have to be extremely careful to only put droplets of formula on their tongues or into their beaks and let them swallow it slowly, because it's just so easy to aspirate the formula into their lungs when they are so little...

Either way I wouldn't even attempt allowing this pair to feed the babies, because their chance of shedding any Viral disease that they have and surviving it become slim to none if they are feeding babies, and again the babies will also die because the food they will be feeding them will not be digested, so the babies won't be getting any nutrition either...If I were you, and I'm saying this as a breeder/hand-raiser of over 20 years, but I would probably try to hand-raise/hand-feed the babies from the moment they hatch, but ONLY if you have the equipment and supplies that you need, because if you don't have a Brooder or at least a homemade Brooder that can keep the chicks at the adequate ambient temperature then they don't have a chance...So if you have all of the necessary equipment to house and feed them, then I'd pull each chick as it hatches and give it a try, because allowing the parents to feed them is going to end horribly for both the parents and the babies.

As far as the parents go, all you can do is "Supportive Care", which means keeping them very well-hydrated (if you have access to an electrolyte supplement like Pedialyte that would be best, but if not then water is fine), and you need to start feeding them nutrient-dense food that is easy to digest and process...Seeds obviously aren't going to work, they are getting no nutrition at all from them when they pass whole an still in the shells...As Itzjbean already mentioned, NO MORE BREAD!!! It's nothing but sugar/carbs and it has absolutely no nutritional value to your birds...

You need to start feeding them high protein, high calorie food that is safe for them and that is easy to digest...Cooked/Scrambled Eggs are very good, you can try to grind the actual Egg-Shells into a very fine powder (mortar and pestle works best) and mix the powdered shells into the liquid eggs and then cook them, so they're getting the added Calcium, however if you don't get the shells ground into a powder that will mix well into the eggs, then the egg shell bits will just pass right out in their droppings just like the seeds do...But cooked Eggs are a good start...

***Do you have access to a commercially-sold hand-feeding formula for baby birds, such as Kaytee or Roudybush? Kaytee is probably the most-commonly sold hand-feeding formula for baby birds, and you can also buy it online...You'll not only need this if you're going to attempt to hand-feed the babies, BUT IT'S ALSO THE BEST THING YOU CAN FEED THE TWO PARENTS RIGHT NOW AS WELL...Baby bird hand-feeding formula is very nutrient rich, with lots of protein, fat, calories, and all of the amino acids/digestive enzymes added-in, along with added Probiotics, and these are going to help your birds to digest their food and absorb the nutrition for it...

If you lived in the US I would tell you to start adding a Digestive-Enzyme supplement to ALL of the food you feed the parents, because this is typically what an Avian Vet is going to suggest for birds with PDD or ABV that are not digesting their food...They are going to put them on a diet of either baby-bird hand-feeding formula multiple times a day, or a high-calorie Veterinary supplemental formula for birds, such as Emerald Critical Care. Both of these are not only very nutrient-dense and contain a ton of protein, fat, carbs, etc., but they also both contain added Digestive-Enzymes, Pre-Biotics, and Probiotics to help their bodies to digest everything they eat. You can buy supplements here made for people that are a tablet that contains both a mix of Probiotics and Digestive Enzymes that you can crush into a powder...I don't know what you have available to you or if you can order things online. If you can, then you need to order a good amount of baby-bird handfeeding formula, preferably the Kaytee Exact "High-Fat" Hand-Feeding Formula, as it contains everything that they need to sustain them while they hopefully shed the PDD or ABV virus...So you'd need to feed both of them multiple times a day with an oral syringe (if you had an Avian Vet they would "Tube-Feed" or "Crop-Feed" them with a special Crop-Needle, but you can't do that if you don't know how and don't have a Crop-Needle)...So you'll have to hand-feed the parents the formula multiple times a day just like you would the babies...Otherwise the aren't going to get enough nutrition and they are going to start losing weight quickly...

Thank you so so much for this guidance. I have the kaytee hand feed and all the necessary hand feeding tools. I'll do as you mentioned everything above.
I'll let the chicks hatch and take them out of the nest as they hatch.


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[wajahat]

If you have a zoo or something nearby, that vet might be able to help (or a bird sanctuary?)--They would likely need to visit your birds in a neutral location (not near their birds- in case this is contagious),but maybe you could explain what you are seeing and get their opinion over the phone and set up a meeting.
Are there any long-time bird keepers in the area who you could call to ask about viral testing /medical treatments etc?

Poultry-types (chickens, geese etc) can catch PDD too, so even a farm vet might have some experience with it...Again, we just can't be certain that this is PDD without testing. That having been said, a farm vet may have seen it enough to make an educated guess if they deal with birds...If it is something else, maybe they have seen it in their birds as well. Parrots are unique in many ways, but you have to work with the resources you have, so you might call around.

I wish there was something I could do to help!


If you are unable to determine whether or not this is PDD, then I would treat them as though they have it until you know (even if you can't be sure, it isn't something you want to gamble with). Consequently, in addition to following Ellen's advice etc, I would quarantine the Alexandrines and hand-wash thoroughly between any/all of your birds (even the ones who appear to be healthy). A "carrier" can live a full life in many cases but once a bird is infected (whether or not they show symptoms) they can spread the virus to others throughout their lives. I would take extra care between handling/ feeding etc. Again, I am not a vet, but since there is a chance that this is viral, it is best to err on the side of caution.



I really hope you are able to find someone who can help.

Can dogs be the carrier of PDD? Because from where I got this pair, that guy used to import dogs from different countries and he kept dogs and parrots in the same hall kind of room.


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[noodles123]

If you have a zoo or something nearby, that vet might be able to help (or a bird sanctuary?)--They would likely need to visit your birds in a neutral location (not near their birds- in case this is contagious),but maybe you could explain what you are seeing and get their opinion over the phone and set up a meeting.
Are there any long-time bird keepers in the area who you could call to ask about viral testing /medical treatments etc?

Poultry-types (chickens, geese etc) can catch PDD too, so even a farm vet might have some experience with it...Again, we just can't be certain that this is PDD without testing. That having been said, a farm vet may have seen it enough to make an educated guess if they deal with birds...If it is something else, maybe they have seen it in their birds as well. Parrots are unique in many ways, but you have to work with the resources you have, so you might call around.

I wish there was something I could do to help!


If you are unable to determine whether or not this is PDD, then I would treat them as though they have it until you know (even if you can't be sure, it isn't something you want to gamble with). Consequently, in addition to following Ellen's advice etc, I would quarantine the Alexandrines and hand-wash thoroughly between any/all of your birds (even the ones who appear to be healthy). A "carrier" can live a full life in many cases but once a bird is infected (whether or not they show symptoms) they can spread the virus to others throughout their lives. I would take extra care between handling/ feeding etc. Again, I am not a vet, but since there is a chance that this is viral, it is best to err on the side of caution.

I really hope you are able to find someone who can help.

Can dogs be the carrier of PDD? Because from where I got this pair, that guy used to import dogs from different countries and he kept dogs and parrots in the same hall kind of room.


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If this is truly PDD (and not something bacterial) or a different virus, then it is unlikely that your Alexandrines would have gotten it from a cat or dog (unless that cat or dog rolled on a dead bird or infected matter and then came inside, and was touched by the human, who then touched a bird or the bird's food). Cats, dogs and humans do not become infected with PDD/ABV and, to my knowledge, they cannot carry it internally.

That having been said, humans and other domesticated animals can aid in the spread of certain avian viruses by transporting infected feather dust/fecal germs etc on their hair/fur/clothes/hands/shoes etc...but, in most cases (and definitely in the case of PDD/ABV) it still would have had to come from another bird originally. Some wild birds and poultry can carry certain viruses (including PDD), so let's say someone worked at a factory and plucked chickens, they could bring a number of viruses home in their hair/clothes...Or, lets say a bird ate an apple from a tree and that apple had been pooped on by an infected bird...

Nevertheless, based on what you have said, is much more likely that one or more of the man's birds were infected and/or carrying disease (if viral). It is also equally possible that the Alexandrines acquired a virus from one of the birds already living at your house (a carrier without symptoms).

Bird viruses make my head spin because they don't follow the same rules as human illness. They are a confusing matter for the veterinary community as well (especially ABV and PDD). Researchers aren't sure why some birds can spread them without getting sick and they don't know why the incubation periods vary so significantly bird to bird (even within the same species). To add to the confusion, there are multiple strains and immunity to one doesn't mean "immunity" to all or even immunity to that same strain if exposed repeatedly. Then there is the issue of "false negatives" when testing...

Without initial testing of all new birds (from day 1), it is a giant guessing game because symptoms are invisible half of the time. That is why boarding a bird, buying a bird from a pet shop, or even attending bird shows can be quite risky...even though most of us have done at least one of these things. After all, birds have to come from somewhere.

Anytime you have parrots together, unless you test them all, a single carrier (without symptoms) could spread a virus to the rest of them and, although some of those birds might become ill within weeks, many would just become carriers themselves (continuing to spread the virus to others) and others would not show symptoms until months/ upwards of 10 years later (often when stressed). Even if the guy you bought from tested all of his birds for PDD and other viruses (which is unlikely) with an incubation period of up to 10 years, an infected carrier can produce a false negative test result because they don't always shed enough of it to be detected by analysis.