Help with sun conure purchase. Is this a red factor or no?

[stangsnviper]

Hello all and thanks in advance for any replies. I used to have some finches and a canary but that was a decade or so ago. I have been researching different pet birds and interacting with them at bird stores for about a year. I fell in love with sun conures and my family and I decided that was the bird for us. Then, I saw a red factor sun conure and I was hooked. I could not find any available at the time so I decided to wait and keep an eye out. Then a couple months ago I found an ad on Craigslist just a few hours from where I live. I asked him for proof of the chick and parents. He sent a video of the chick with my name written next it (Alan Jordan). He also sent a video of the “parents” that I later found on YouTube. The original video was from ten years ago and he added his voice to the video. I found this after I gave him a $200 deposit. I thought I looked through YouTube enough before I sent the money but I guess not. I know there is a bird, I just do not know if it is a red factor without seeing the parents. The bird is ready but I do not want to give him the full $700 if I do not have proof it is a red factor. I uploaded the videos he sent me on YouTube. Below I put links to the videos he sent me plus a link to the video he pulled from YouTube for the fake video of the parents he sent me.

This is the link to the original video of a breeding pair he took from YouTube: [ame="https://youtu.be/EEHTrdTwrDg"]My breeding pair of red factor sun conures - YouTube[/ame]

These are links to the videos he sent me through iMessage: [ame="https://youtu.be/Qf7wtpMwL0Q https://youtu.be/_f7hurfYUkA https://youtu.be/_f7hurfYUkA https://youtu.be/Yb_0ICuuYn0"]Error 400 (Bad Request)!!1[/ame]

The last video in this list is the latest video he sent me of the bird I reserved.

I was wondering if people could tell me whether it’s possible to see if this is a red factor without seeing the parents. I want the bird regardless but I don’t want to pay extra if it’s not actually a red factor. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. the hatch date was May 27th of this year.

 

[SailBoat]

Sorry for the delay in the Posting of your Thread. Sadly, it does happen from time to time.

Regarding your questions. Without records that define specific parents with specific chicks using leg bands that reach back over several years. And like records exist with near all of the Parrots hatched by this Breeder. You have no way of knowing if this Parrot has linage as a Red Factor or not. And, what Parrots are the parents.

It maybe possible that one of our members has an expertise with this group of Sun Conures and can provide more specific information.

FYI: I'm an Amazon Snob and with Amazon, it is much better to let them choose you. I have found that this same reality is fairly common across the full spectrum of Parrots. At present, 'you' are sold on a Red Fact Sun Conure. What happens when you get there and the Parrot wants little or nothing to do with you and at the same time another Sun Conure just cannot get close enough to you?

Take care! Craig's list does not have a very good reputation when is comes to people selling Parrots. For me, Craig List comes with: Buyer Beware Warning.

 

[itzjbean]

Red factor sun conures are very stunning birds! They're also one of my favorites.

I couldn't see the pic/video of the baby.... At 2-3 months old if the baby is not red on the entire head, it is not a red factor. The situation sounds fishy.... as you may know, there are lots of scammers on craigslist. Be sure to meet the baby first if you can before any more payment is made.

Age is going to be key here in determining if the chick is a red factor. You can't really tell until the feathers begin to develop, which takes a couple weeks when pinfeathers begin to develop. At 2 months old he should be almost completely red on and around the head. No yellow should be coming around the head if it's truly a red factor.

The pair (if this really is his pair of parent birds) only has one red factor parent so the babies are not going to be guaranteed red factor. It could be low odds as 25% chance of getting a red factor baby.

They don't turn red over time, no matter what the guy may tell you, so if you are getting a baby with a yellow head or mostly yellow feathers, he will NOT turn red in time and in this case is not a red factor.

Hope that helps a little.

 

[stangsnviper]

Thanks for the replies! I attached the fixed link of the bird he is selling me. This is as of a couple weeks ago

[ame="https://youtu.be/Nllq1rl40j0"]August 24, 2018 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[stangsnviper]

I am trying to figure out what a fair price for this weened bird would be, considering the fact that I have no real access to the parents.

 

[Jottlebot]

I know you want this bird, but think carefully before you commit. If he has lied as much as you suspect he has already what else will he lie about? If he hasn't lied, but for some reason isn't able to show convincing parentage then he's probably a fairly poor breeder so again, what else might be substandard? My head says say no and walk away if you possibly can...

If not then make sure you meet the bird and have a good look at it before you hand over more money. Don't let him take the bird out of the room to put it in a travel cage and be suspicious if he has put him in a travel cage before you get there.

 

[EllenD]

This is most likely not a Red-Factor Sun Conure. As Itzjbean already stated, one of the parents definitely is not (if those are the parents), and this makes it impossible to guarantee the babies are...Plus, looking at the baby you reserved, I don't at all think he/she is a red-factor...an adorable bird, but not a red-factor...

Here's a tip that you should take to heart: Any time you discover that someone online has already scammed/deceived/lied to you about an animal you're looking to purchase, then that should be it, because they are usually only out to get your money. If you pay $700 for a baby Sun Conure then he's gotten the best of you, as you can buy a hand-raised baby Sun Conure from any reputable breeder for between $400-$500 that is exactly the same as the one you are looking at paying $700 for...

Did you tell this "breeder" that you back-searched the video he sent you and you know that it's 10 years old? There is no reason at all why he shouldn't be able to send you a current video of the breeding-pair, obviously. And if BOTH PARENTS are not red-factor Sun Conures, then there is absolutely no guarantee that any of their babies will be. And that's my guess as to what is going on here. he knows that he's scamming you for an extra $200-$300 for no reason, he's lied to you and he thinks he's gotten away with it...

And honestly, you really don't know that there is a baby at all...You already "sent" this guy $200, right? All of these videos could be complete garbage, the fact that he "put your name on the video" means nothing, you know that...That baby could be someone else's bird that he just took a quick video of, or he could have downloaded a more recent video, etc. So if you do decide to go and meet this baby, make sure that you take cash with you and that you don't "send" him anymore money through PayPal or however you did it, as this guy may vaporize at any moment. And if he tells you that you have to "send" him the rest of the money before you come to get the bird, run away and cut your losses. That's an old trick.

BTW, I work at an Avian and Reptile Rescue (for the last 8 years) that has been involved in directly helping people who are the victims of animal-scams, so I've seen them all, dogs, parrots, primates, marsupials, pigs, show rabbits, etc. And the second someone sends you a photo or a video that you quickly discover isn't a video that they just took, then all bets are off...Besides, as I and Itzjbean already said, that baby isn't a red factor Sun Conure in the first place, so there's your sign...

I'm sorry this happened to you, I know you really want a red-factor Sun Conure, but the only way you can buy something specialized and more rare like this, or even any parrot, puppy, etc. safely, is to go and see the babies BEFORE putting a deposit down. Again, the second that you've proven the "breeder" or seller has lied to you about a photo, video, etc.., then that's it, run away...

Oh, and any red-factor Sun Conure should always come with a hatch certificate listing it's parents and verifying their lineage. If not, then it's a scam....

 

[itzjbean]

I took a look at the video you posted of this baby. I'm concerned that the guy is just letting it be outside like this, it's just not really that safe. And two, there seems to be not very much red on this baby... it does NOT looks like a red factor to me, or you would be seeing much more red on it. It has mostly green on the wings and yellow/green on the head to me, so you are most likely getting ripped off several hundred dollars for a baby with only around $300.

Ellen posted some excellent advice and info above as well.

 

[EllenD]

I took a look at the video you posted of this baby. I'm concerned that the guy is just letting it be outside like this, it's just not really that safe. And two, there seems to be not very much red on this baby... it does NOT looks like a red factor to me, or you would be seeing much more red on it. It has mostly green on the wings and yellow/green on the head to me, so you are most likely getting ripped off several hundred dollars for a baby with only around $300.

Ellen posted some excellent advice and info above as well.

That's exactly what I thought, that baby in the video is just a normal Sun Conure, it doesn't look at all like a red-factor to me either. I hate that people do these animal scams, and it's getting worse and worse with parrots every day. You can't look on any Craigslist pet page without seeing multiple parrot scam ads, and while it used to just be African Grays and Macaws, now it's all species of parrots. Asking $700 for a normal Sun Conure when you can buy a hand-raised, sweet baby from a very reputable breeder for $300-$400 is just awful...And honestly, there is no guarantee at all that this guy even has ANY bird for sale at all, that video of the baby could have come from anywhere, or he could have taken a video of someone else's bird, or his own bird!

This is exactly why you should NEVER "send" money to a breeder of any live animal BEFORE YOU VISIT AND SEE THE ANIMAL!

When I bought Kane (my Senegal that I got as a hand-raised, 12 week old baby), I first found his breeder on Craigslist after doing a search that went out hundreds and hundreds of miles, because I knew I wanted a Senegal Parrot, but I couldn't find a single hand-raised baby Senegal anywhere in Pennsylvania (except for those "Anna" and "Lilly" women who are located in Scranton and Hazleton, and who sell literally every species of parrot on earth for hundreds if not thousands more than the average price; they're quite literally parrot "Brokers" who buy hundreds of hand-raised baby birds from their actual breeders, and they buy them at extremely cheap, wholesale prices because they buy them unweaned, and then finish weaning them themselves and then sell them for hundreds if not thousands more than they paid for them...end of rant)...Anyway, I found Kane's breeder in Raleigh, North Carolina, a 9 hour drive away from me! However, i really like his breeders, they are a couple of high-school teachers in their late 50's-early 60's who have bred a few clutches of parrots a year for decades, and who own a Macaw, a CAG, and a Red-Bellied Parrot themselves, and are just lovely people. I contacted them as soon as I found their ad, when Kane and his brother were only around 8 weeks old. So I spent a good month or so talking to them almost every day, and having him send me a new photo almost every day of both baby Senegals, so that there was absolutely no doubt that he was raising these two babies. He sent me videos of both the babies and their parents, he sent me photos of the parent's dated paperwork and hatch-certificates, along with photos of the same for both babies. And they were happy to do all of this stuff for me for a full month before Kane was ready to be picked-up, because they knew I was willing to drive 9 hours one-way to come get him, because I really wanted a Senegal and was willing to travel as far as necessary to get the right baby for me. And though he typically asked for a deposit of half the cost of the bird to hold it, he didn't require this of me since I was willing to drive from State College to Raleigh. i didn't pay him a cent until I got to his house outside of Raleigh, he took my word and I took his because of the trust we had formed for each other. I probably got around 50 photos and videos of both Kane, his brother, and his parents before driving to NC to get him...And I also paid HALF or even less than half of what a hand-raised Senegal baby costs up in the Northeast US, because the further South you go, the more parrot breeders there are, and the more competative their prices have to be...LOL, "Anna's Parrots" in Scranton had one hand-raised Senegal baby for $800, and I paid $300 for Kane! So the drive to Ralieigh was well worth it, and I actually love NC anyway, and have a close friend from high-school who lives in Raliegh, so we made a weekend of it, and since Kane's breeder had harness-trained him from very young, I had bought one and brought it with me, and we spent the following Sunday walking around the Duke campus in Durham...

The point I'm trying to make (instead of boring the OP with my own stories) is that this breeder started his "relationship" with you, or rather his "contact" with you out with a blatant lie and a totally fake video of what was supposed to be a breeding-pair of Red-Factor Sun Conures that were the parents of this baby he had for sale...And you busted him on it! And this guy isn't very bright either, as not only did he not realize that you could just back-search the video's history to catch him in his lie, but also the video he sent to you wasn't even of a pair of red-factor parents, but rather only one parent that looked like a red-factor (at least to me it was only 1 that could have been a red-factore), and he didn't realize that this wasn't going to prove anything as far as the lineage of any babies that this pair would have...

So the point is that this guy also does not seem like a person who is familiar with breeding in-general, and definitely not familiar with red-factor Sun Conures or their lineage/genetics. So this is just another red-flag that indicates that this is a total scam.

Have you spoken to this guy yet about the video? The reason I ask is that a lot of the time when people catch someone scamming them and they've already sent them a deposit, the scammer then just vaporizes, their phone number no longer works (they typically use "burner" phones), their email is never answered again and is not registered to a real person, etc. They just disappear and move on to the next person. So you want to be very careful about how you approach this situation. i mean, I totally agree with Itzjbean, there is no way I would send this guy another cent...And even if that baby in the video is real and does exist, and is actually for sale, it is not a red-factor Sun Conure, it's just a Sun-Conure...so there's no way you can pay him $700 for that baby...So you need to handle this very carefully, because if this whole thing is a total scam and there is no baby, which is what I suspect, he'll just vanish the second he knows you're on to him...

Something else you need to think about too...Let's say that this baby Sun Conure does exist and is for sale, and let's say you're able to get him to sell the baby to you for $300-$400, which is the average price of a hand-raised, baby NORMAL Sun Conure...How do you know that the baby is even hand-raised without interacting with it? This guy is lying about the baby being a red-factor, so he may very well be lying about hand-raising the baby, and it may very well have been parent-raised. So this is another reason to not send him another cent, and only give him more money after you get to his place and see the baby, interact with baby, and ensure that the baby is a hand-raised, tame, friendly baby Sun Conure...

Honestly though, I'd try to get my $200 and say goodbye. There are sooooo many great private breeders of Sun Conures out there, they are literally everywhere, and you can easily find many reputable, experienced, and honest breeders within driving-distance of you who are selling hand-raised, tame, friendly normal Sun Conures for around $300...You're much better off to get your deposit back, say thank you, I changed my mind, and find another breeder (if you're wanting a normal Sun conure). I bet you can find a normal Sun Conure that is hand-raised and is fully abundance-weaned and ready to go now, you won't even have to wait, and the price will still be right around $300 or so. That's how many normal Sun Conure babies there are out there for sale from breeders. Please do not feel trapped, like you HAVE to buy that baby from this guy. At best he lied to you and tried to con you out of hundreds of dollars, and at worst the whole thing is a scam and there is no baby at all, normal or otherwise.

And if you truly ONLY want a Red-Factor Sun Conure, then get your money back and start-over looking for one. I've seen plenty of hand-raised baby, Red-Factor Sun Conures for sale in my searches for birds from breeders, and I wasn't ever even looking for a Sun Conure. So they aren't that rare, they're definitely out there. You might have to wait a while for one, you might not, but either way this baby isn't a Red-Factor. So if that's really, really what you want, then don't just "settle" for a normal Sun Conure, not from this guy or any other breeder, because trust me, you'll only regret it forever...

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I thought letting the little sunny out like that wasn't a good idea either.


I'm not an expert on RFs, but from what I've seen in pictures online, that sunny doesn't look like an RF to me. Just looks like a deep orange. I do know that the other one DEFINITELY is not. I think the seller/breeder either doesn't know much about RFs or has been given false information or, unfortunately, is a ripoff artist.


Skittles has a lot of deep orange. I got into an argument on FB with a stranger who tried to convince me that Skittles was an RF when I knew he wasn't. I contacted the vet AND his breeder and both confirmed he was NOT, only that his parents happened to have a lot of orange too.

 

[MonicaMc]

Breeding RF to RF does not guarantee 100% RF babies. You could get normal suns, RF suns and then "double factor" RF suns. This chicks *rarely* survive to 6 months old. In fact, most die before weaning or shortly after. Due to this, you only ever want to pair RF suns to normal suns. You can learn more about it here...

http://www.birdcompanions.com/FCA The Red Factor Sun Conure Color Mutation.pdf



I would also question whether or not that chick is an RF baby. The video really doesn't help.... pictures might.

 

[Sunnyclover]

This is not a red factor...you can tell because he is a little red but mostly orange on the head. Also letting a bay be outside (as others have said) is not okay and I do not think he is treating his bird properly and the poor baby looked scared. He has also lied to you and is seemingly very shady. I would maybe stop focusing on getting a red factor because they are hard to find (unless you are sure sure sure you have found a trusted breeder that you can actually visit in person) and maybe just get a regular sun conure because even though they are not "red" they are every bit as amazing. My Ollie is a regular sun conure and he is the best person I know.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

Agreed Sunnyclover.

I've always been partial to "normals". Peaches, my tiel, was a normal grey hen. While Skittles IS extremely colorful, it wasn't his plumage that drew me in. It was his personality. His personality is ENORMOUS! Often times, I think he has too much and wish he would just 'chill out' lol.

I have heard there are also genetic issues with breeding RFs? I'm not sure what they are, but that's what I've heard.