Help my macaw have ligament problems

[Poopilly]

Hi everyone Sunday my baby macaw 4 months old flew and felt but she done that many times before! I was not home but my friend come to feed her once and told me she felt! But she was okay! (She have experience and have 4 birds 2 are very young).
I come home that same day at night and like my friend told
Me she was only standing one foot and was holding the other one up ! Went to the vet yesterday because after calling 5 places none had the avian vet in on Monday for the holiday! The vet said she will need surgery and that he is going to refer her out! I cried so much and still am in chock! I have birds for the past 15 years never deal with anything like thisn please advice on what would you do! My breeder said she won’t do surgery but give her time to heal!i am very confused today waiting for a second option form another vet. Please help I will post picture if I can find out how to do it! Thank you everyone! She is sad not eating well lost weight!
I don’t know how to post picture of the x-ray

 

[Poopilly]

Anyone please share your thoughts and also how to posts the X-ray picture

 

[LordTriggs]

just making sure the vet you went to is a Certified Avian vet? Not just an exotics or someone who will see birds? Cause most of the time Vets who aren't certified are less than useless.

Unfortunately none of us here have medical training in regards to parrots (that I know of) I think if your vet has said they need surgery then it's best to go along with them. The majority of breeders have some very backwards thoughts on how to care for birds.

 

[Scott]

As LordTriggs well said, it is critical to obtain a diagnosis from a certified avian vet. A very young macaw must be properly evaluated to avoid going down a very poor path of treatment.

Best method for posting pictures is via hosting service such as Imgur: http://www.parrotforums.com/technical-support/6287-how-post-pictures-6.html#post718293

 

[EllenD]

The only thing that I can say to you with any authority is that your Macaw is very, very young, and still growing, and this is most-likely the reason that the Avian Vet is recommending that they do surgery, and they are most-likely correct. If your bird was a full-grown adult, then depending on the what the actual injury is, it may be best to just let it heal on it's own...However, with such a young Macaw baby who is still growing, a torn ligament, fractured bone, torn tendon, etc. can all result in severe issues throughout his entire life, even the possibility of not ever being able to walk properly again, as ligaments hold bone-to-bone, and as the bones grow, if the ligaments are not anchoring them properly, this can create all types of issues. Plus, depending on what ligament it is that he tore and also how severe the tear is, it may not be able to heal on it's own at all in the first place. It's extremely difficult for ligaments that are torn completely off of a bone to reconnect on their own, and this would absolutely severely inhibit a young baby's growth, development, and permanent walking and moving ability.

There is nothing wrong at all with getting a second-opinion, as long as it's from either a Certified Avian Vet or an Avian Specialist that ONLY treats birds, and not from an Exotic's Vet that sees birds, rodents, reptiles, etc., as most of them have no specialty bird training or education. So as long as this vet who is recommending surgery is either a CAV or an Avian Specialist, then I'd definitely trust them over your bird's breeder. I'm a breeder, but I'm not a Vet, and i certainly wouldn't trust my opinion over a Vet's, with good reason. And like I said, due to your bird's age and the fact that he's not nearly fully-grown, this is most-likely a huge factor is the vet recommending surgery to fix his leg, as it most-likely will not heal properly without it, and at his age if it doesn't heal correctly, then he's going to have lots and lots of issues due to him not being fully grown and developed, which is probably something that the breeder is not taking into consideration...

 

[GaleriaGila]

If you need names...


Certified Avian Vets
https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/
If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
In my opinion, any of the vets listed here should be better than a regular vet.

 

[Poopilly]

Thanks everyone I went to see a board certified vet but did not have much knowledge! He did our yearly check-up and did not noticed like on of her other foot have a deformed finger! Also her right eye have a deformed pupil but still sees right!
The one I got to see today is a director of The board certified she does all kinds of exotic animals! But she only did this type of surgery 3 times!
She said my macaw have stifle luxation! And advice on doing the surgery but said it have life risks!
I am in sock broken heart reallly praying she will survive this injury! My breeder said to live it alone let it heal on its own and control her pain level for a couple of weeks! I don’t wanna loose my baby! The surgery is about $1200 to $1600 estimate plus I already spend $400 in both doctors!
I hope she will be okay ��
Praying ����To make he best decision

 

[noodles123]

Sorry you are going through this. I would trust the doctors, but that must be scary. I was a mess when I found out my (at the time) newly-adopted bird had a liver problem. It is better now...and numbers weren't good, so I wish you luck...Bird health is scary, but, I don't think the vet would recommend if they didn't think the benefits outweighed the costs. Find a CAV you are comfortable with---if you have to consult a different one, do so (so long as time and options aren't limited).

 

[ChristaNL]

I looked at


https://www.google.com/search?q=sti...2aXdAhXyk4sKHZvXDzcQ_AUICigB&biw=1680&bih=936


lots of X-rays and ways they fixate the leg.
Do they look like yours?
(You had issues with posting them / I am not good with photoos either; Gail gave me this one: http://www.parrotforums.com/technical-support/6287-how-post-pictures.html maybe it will help?)

==


I still do not know why they keep referring to "a stifle" while it is the same joint as our "knee".
(the upper leg bone meets the 2 lower legbones and form a joint)


==


What I read is that fixation is *the* way to go, but that there is not really that much research done about it.
But really get it done asap - so your babybird can start to heal.
(its only 4 months old and has to live with that leg till it's 90 years or even older, that is a good investment! )

 

[EllenD]

Once again, why are you trusting your "breeder" over an Avian Vet? I'm a 20-year parrot breeder with a Master's Degree in Animal Health Science, and I wouldn't tell you to trust me over what an Avian Vet is telling you! I'm telling you, you need to have the surgery done simply based on your bird's age, as he'll have life-long problems if you don't...and that's decades and decades...

All surgeries for everyone pose risks. With birds the biggest risk is the anesthesia, but they are now using different meds/gasses that are much safer, and as long as the Vet first does a complete blood-panel, checks his heart, checks his lungs, etc, to make sure that he's healthy enough for anesthesia, then he'll be fine. There will always be risks but you are taking a much larger risk with the injury you describe letting it go without being repaired at 4 months old! A subluxation like this will not only not repair itself or spontaneously heal, but it's going to keep happening over and over again, it will keep slipping, ripping, and tearing, and may not ever heal correctly in the first place.

Seriously, your breeder is not a doctor, and I don't even know if she has any medical education or experience or not at all, most likely not. The fact that you're trusting your breeder more than an Avian Vet is kind of troubling to me, because you're literally putting the health of your 4-month old bird in the hands of a breeder instead of 2 different doctors/surgeons...And if the surgeon has done this orthopedic repair 3 times, then that's a hell of a lot more experience than your breeder has ever had...I hope you understand where everyone is coming from...

I suggest you do some research, and the absolute best videos I can refer you to are from the TV show "Dr. K's Exotic Animal ER"...It's a show on the NationalGeographic channel, but you can google it and watch episodes online for free on numerous sites. Dr. Kelleher owns an Exotic Animal Hospital in Fort Lauderdale, FL, she's an Exotic's Vet, but she's also a Board-Certified Avian Vet and Surgeon, and the name of her hospital is "Broward Avian and Exotic"...There are two different episodes from I think season 2 or 3, where Dr. Kelleher literally cuts apart, alters, and then totally rebuilds both legs of two different baby Scarlet Macaws who were both born with such bad orthopedic deformities that their legs were literally positioned over their heads, and they could do nothing but lay on their bellies with their legs up in the air, one the whole way over their heads. After Dr. K did the first surgery, then the owner had another rescue Macaw that was being hand-raised and cared for by another parrot rehab person and that had the same issues come in and have the same surgery done. Dr. K had to literally cut-off the baby Macaw's leg, entirely except for the blood supply, cut out lengths of femur bone, alter the lengths and positions of both ligaments and tendons, and the muscles, and then use wire, pins, plates, and screws to rebuild these baby Macaw's legs. It was the most amazing thing I've ever seen done in veterinary medicine. And these were both baby Macaws that were only 2-3 months old, unweaned and without their feathers yet, and they were both under anesthesia for hours, and did perfectly fine. I think you need to see that these surgeries are done every single day, and the surgery that your Macaw would be having would be very straight-forward, simple, and short. And it would ensure that he will continue to grow properly and be able to walk, balance, and land properly for his entire life.

What you have to think about is that if you don't have this very short, simple surgery done now to repair this injury so that he can continue to grow and develop properly, the odds are that he's going to have to have much more extensive, risky, and dangerous surgery as an adult because he's eventually not going to be able to walk, balance, or fly/land properly...or perch for that matter. How can a Macaw live a full, active, healthy life if they cannot perch properly, or at all? That's what you need to think about. And then take the advice of the Avian Vets/Surgeons who are not only educated in this, but that have performed these types of surgeries before. Your breeder means well, I'm sure, but they should not be giving you medical advice, and certainly should not be telling you that the Avian Vet/Surgeons are wrong and you should just do the opposite of what they are telling you. That's irresponsible of your breeder, and unfair to both you and your bird...And also, the fact that your breeder sold you an unweaned baby Macaw in the first place is a red-flag that they aren't the most scrupulous or well-meaning breeder in the first place, as no parrot breeders should ever sell an unweaned baby parrot. It's just not responsible or safe...

 

[LordTriggs]

not got much to add to Ellen's post, she goes into much more detail than I could!

What I will say on the side of your breeder and why they suggest not doing surgery is very simply, if you bird were not to survive this then they believe you will go back and get a different bird and spend more $$$$ maybe I sound paranoid or like I'm chastising a breeder for no reason but the vast majority of breeders are in it for cash and nothing else.

As for the money side of things £1'600 is nothing for pet surgery. Had a cat of mine break its leg years ago and just to set the bone and splint it cost £3'000 which must be about $3'500 at least. Pets and vets are expensive